The Instigator
tylergraham95
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Mitchell27
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gandalf would beat Dumbledore in a duel to the death

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
tylergraham95
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,358 times Debate No: 43662
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

tylergraham95

Pro

First round is acceptance only.
No new rebuttals/arguments/responses in the final round.
Mitchell27

Con

Your on. Consider this debate accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
tylergraham95

Pro

In a 1 on 1 fight to the death, Gandalf would be able to take Dumbledore. I will support this statement with a series of contentions and evidence based on observable evidence from the movies and books of both series. For the sake of argument, I will assume that combatants will not be able to call upon allies such as the fellowship of the ring or shadowfax.


Gandalfs Arsenal


Glamdring


The first major advantage gandalf has over dumbledore is his sword, glamdring. Gandalf the white is an expert swordsman, and kills quite efficiently with glamdring. He even killed the goblin king with glamdring, while he was still grey. Gandalf even took on a fell beast with glamdring. Most impressive of all, is of course his duel with the demon of moria, the horrible visage of morgul, the Balrog. Gandalf even summoned lightning with glamdring atop a mountain to kill the Balrog. Glamdring is a very deadly sword. It is elven crafted and imbued with powerful magic. He can cut through many foes with it, and can summon powerful magical attacks with it. If Gandalf closed the gap in a fight and was up close and personal with dumbledore, then dumbledore would have no defense against Gandalfs melee attacks.


The Staff of a White Wizard


As a white wizard, Gandalf is armed with an incredibly powerful conduit of magical power. The staff of a white wizard. Gandalf uses this powerful tool not only as an effective bludgeoning weapon, but also as a conduit for many of his spells. I will talk more in depth about his supernatural abilities in the next portion of my argument.


Supernatural abilities


Gandalf is an Ainur, an immortal spirit, so technically he can't die. Even if by some miracle dumbledore was able to somehow vanquish him in a fight, gandalf would simply return with a vengeance. As an Ainur or, more commonly, a Wizard, gandalf also has access to a collection of incredibly powerful spells. Gandalf the White is the most powerful of the Wizards. He has the power of the voice, similar to sarumans, and can summon very powerful magic to assist him. The wizards of harry potter have somewhat insignificant powers compared to the ainur. Their spells are totally localized. They can disarm opponents, stun them, and if they are a dark wizard (which dumbledore is not) they can maybe torture, control, and kill their enemy. Gandalf can bring down storms, summon giants, and control the weather. He can also summons massive blasts of power to throw around his opponents.

Vote Gandalf!



Sources
1. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (books) by J.R.R. Tolkein
2. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (movies) directed by Peter Jackson
3. The Hobbit (book) by J.R.R. Tolkein
4. The Silmilarrion (Book) by J.R.R. Tolkein
5. The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (Movie) directed by Peter Jackson
Mitchell27

Con

Counter to Glamdring:

In the Harry Potter Universe it is clear that a, quick, easy (so easy they learn it in like the first year of learning magic) spell that can disarm and Dumbledore is more than likely a master of that simple spell.

Counter to the Staff

Taking into account all contains considered canon both wizards seem to be more powerful with wands or staffs but not useless without them. Dumbledore uses the elder wand, conjured by Death himself and could easy match Gandalf's Staff as both have been seen doing incredible feats, I will talk more of Dumbledore's feats later in my argument.

Counter to Supernatural Abilities

We have seen that the power of voice takes long strings of complex tong similar to old computer programming languages and Harry potter spells are short and sweet (more like command prompts) consisting of two to three syllable shouts or saying easier to quickly use more ideal for dueling and would quick end Gandalf's long drawn out spells before he can finish.

New argument:

Dumbledore can and has summoned a bolt of energy from his wand without even using s spell and clearly countered an apposing bolt rendering bolt style attack useless.
Also within the LOTR and hobbit universe you see very little magic used for fighting and other than throwing around other wizards and his powers seem regional based more suited for fighting nazgul or goblins.
Dumbledore also has a phoenix meaning the eagles are a null argument as they can be countered by his phoenix.
Plus Gandalf is a pot head...
Plus Dumbledore gots mad style...

Recap:

Dumbledore can disarm easy and quick
Magic style faster better for dueling
More information of magic in HP vs LOTR
Eagles can be countered by phoenix

PS the wizards in HP don't seem to mind rain or giants if I remember correctly.
Debate Round No. 2
tylergraham95

Pro

Pros Case

"In the Harry Potter Universe it is clear that a, quick, easy (so easy they learn it in like the first year of learning magic) spell that can disarm and Dumbledore is more than likely a master of that simple spell."

Disarm wands. Furthermore, Gandalf can protect himself from the magic of others (such as saruman) and could easily prevent himself from being disarmed.


"Taking into account all contains considered canon both wizards seem to be more powerful with wands or staffs but not useless without them. Dumbledore uses the elder wand, conjured by Death himself and could easy match Gandalf's Staff as both have been seen doing incredible feats, I will talk more of Dumbledore's feats later in my argument."

Yes dumbledore has stored his memory and dueled other lesser wizards in non-lethal combat. Gandalf however has defeated massive fire demons, and his staff has summoned thunder and lightning, and cloudbreaks of burning light.


"We have seen that the power of voice takes long strings of complex tong similar to old computer programming languages and Harry potter spells are short and sweet (more like command prompts) consisting of two to three syllable shouts or saying easier to quickly use more ideal for dueling and would quick end Gandalf's long drawn out spells before he can finish."

There are plenty of instances where gandalf casts many spells on command. I don't know what you think makes your point tenable.

"Dumbledore can and has summoned a bolt of energy from his wand without even using s spell and clearly countered an apposing bolt rendering bolt style attack useless."

One puny bolt? Gandalf summons blasts of lightning and fireballs.

"Also within the LOTR and hobbit universe you see very little magic used for fighting and other than throwing around other wizards and his powers seem regional based more suited for fighting nazgul or goblins."

Have you read the books? Regional based? He changes the very weather and has summoned very powerful allies from afar.

"Dumbledore also has a phoenix meaning the eagles are a null argument as they can be countered by his phoenix."

Seriously? One puny phoenix vs. an entire flock of collosal eagles?

"Plus Gandalf is a pot head...
Plus Dumbledore gots mad style..."

I don't see how this is relevant.

Summary
The opposition fails to present compelling evidence that dumbledore could defeat gandalf in a fight.

VOTE GANDALF!


Mitchell27

Con

"Disarm wands. Furthermore, Gandalf can protect himself from the magic of others (such as saruman) and could easily prevent himself from being disarmed."

Frist that spell is never said to be bound to wands and also your assuming that magic(like that of saruman) is the same as magic of the HP universe, Gandalf has never encountered this type of magic befor.

Sorry it was my fault to be so undescriptive. By regonal I didn't mean could not affect vast areas I mean the were more based on fight other cretures or entities within Middle-earth (like a spot light that scares Nazgul) while Dumbledore spells are bassed off of mostly phisical thing, like disarming, stuning. And I under stand Gandalf does have some spells that aren't like that(fire or lighting).

The Phineixs can be reborn can the eagles?

You can't deny the fact that gandalf does seem to smoke alot pipe-weed and this clearly has some sort of effect on him. Gandalf If not addicted is atleast high during non war times from what we can tell from the canon. If gandalf was high it would give Dumbledore and advantage.

Dumble has been know go invisable with a cloak, summon a massive fire storm, fly(broom stick) and Since your get Gandalf in his most powerful form I can assum the Dumbledore would pocces all his magical iteams that were later given to harry as his magical skills were perfected when he was a child.

Debate Round No. 3
tylergraham95

Pro

I thank my opponent for a prompt response.

Pros Case

"Sorry it was my fault to be so undescriptive. By regonal I didn't mean could not affect vast areas I mean the were more based on fight other cretures or entities within Middle-earth (like a spot light that scares Nazgul) while Dumbledore spells are bassed off of mostly phisical thing, like disarming, stuning. And I under stand Gandalf does have some spells that aren't like that(fire or lighting)."

My opponent cedes that Gandalf does indeed posses powers that allow him to make himself a formidable foe. Gandalf has powers of telekinetics (he can throw you around, or send out blasts of kinetic energy), he has cast pyromancy spells, he has pyrokinesis, electrokinesis, and he can command the weather to change at his will. He also has the power of the voice, which is a bit slower than the other forms of magic, but not so slow that it isn't usable in a duel. In his battle with the Balrog (when he was still the grey) he used his power of the voice to keep the creature at bay, a very powerful feat.


"The Phineixs Phoenix can be reborn can the eagles?"

There are lots of eagles and only one phoenix. Furthermore, the phoenix is the size of a regular bird of prey. The eagles are massive. Also, because they are much larger, the eagles can fly faster than the phoenix by far. Also, they are obviously much stronger. It would only take one eagle to capture the phoenix and carry it off far away.


"You can't deny the fact that gandalf does seem to smoke alot pipe-weed and this clearly has some sort of effect on him. Gandalf If not addicted is atleast high during non war times from what we can tell from the canon. If gandalf was high it would give Dumbledore and advantage."

Only Gandalf the Grey is seen smoking pipe weed. Gandalf the white is never seen smoking pipe weed.


"Dumble has been know go invisable with a cloak, summon a massive fire storm, fly(broom stick) and Since your get Gandalf in his most powerful form I can assum the Dumbledore would pocces all his magical iteams that were later given to harry as his magical skills were perfected when he was a child."

Gandalf could easily cast off the enchantment on the invisibility cloak (at least temporarily) as he has done many times before to other enchantments. If Dumbledore tried to fly, Gandalf could easily knock him off his broom stick with lightning.


Summary
-Gandalf would not be easily disarmed of glamdring, and could easily fell Dumbledore with it up close and personal (and magic in harry potter typically requires you to be somewhat close to your target)
-Gandalfs powers are much grander than Dumbledores. His spells have much more powerful destructive effect.
-My opponent has only argued that Dumbledore could possibly disarm Gandalf, not kill him.
-Gandalf has many deadly spells he can cast.
-Giant eagles could easily take on Fawkes
-My opponent leaves the fact that Gandalf is an immortal spirit unaddressed. Dumbledore could never actually kill Gandalf.
-My opponents spelling has been very poor this debate.



I thank my opponent for a fun and interesting debate. Best of luck!

Mitchell27

Con

Mitchell27 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Swagmasterpoopoo 3 years ago
Swagmasterpoopoo
ummm i just want to say this: Gandalf isnt rly immortal. When Gnadalf the Grey fights with the Balrog, he is killed, but he is revived as Gandalf the White to complete his task. So technically gandalf can die...
Posted by PWade6155 3 years ago
PWade6155
I honestly don't know who would win in this battle, but this is just straight out entertaining. And by the way, as much as I love Dumbledore. I have to vote Gandalf. Don't ask for n explanation on why I chose him, I just do. Don't judge.
Posted by EndarkenedRationalist 3 years ago
EndarkenedRationalist
I really want to see where this goes.
Posted by fidelacchius 3 years ago
fidelacchius
Ohh my god i wish i wasnt already in a debate with you :P Dumby so has this
Posted by alienfreak900 3 years ago
alienfreak900
Gandalf
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
tylergraham95Mitchell27Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: ff. Pro also had much more arguments.