The Instigator
Wylted
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
TheBlueWizard
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gaston (from Beauty and the Beast) is a hero.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Wylted
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/3/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,597 times Debate No: 66070
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (21)
Votes (2)

 

Wylted

Pro

Any member who has had at least 5 debates may debate me on this.

I'm obviously going to show that Gaston was a hero in this debate and only that , but I want to add as an aside that Belle was a B!tch. Which I may try to debate at some future point.

Resolution: Gaston from Beauty and the Beast is a Hero
TheBlueWizard

Con

I accept the debate and await your arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Wylted

Pro

First of all, look at this beautiful bastard.




I'm sorry, I meant this beautiful bastard.



Nobody can hate this guy, not really.

A TRAGIC LOVE STORY

Gaston the town's hunk and downright blue collar hero is in love with Belle. All this guy wants through the entire movie is to be with the woman he loves and to keep the town safe.

Is the guy arrogant, you betcha but he has every right to be and there's nothing inherently wrong with arrogance.

Let's also keep in mind that Gaston was the only person in town who paid any mind to Belle. For the most part she was treated as a leper due to her aloofness and crazy father (Who Gaston tried to get professional help for). He showered her with attention offered her all of his heart.

What Gaston wanted was to love and be loved, and how was he repaid?

The good looking blue collar hero guy who showers Belle with love and affection is brushed aside for the abusive guy who imprisoned her and even refused to let her eat one time who just so happens to be royalty and independently wealthy.

It just goes to show you that no matter how good looking you are, no matter how well you treat a woman, they will leave you the second somebody with a fat wallet comes along, even if the guy is abusive and is quite literally fugly.

HERO'S JOURNEY

Here is where Gaston (the blue collar guy in love with the town leper), becomes a hero. Belle comes back to town, talking about a beast who has already abducted her and her father and held them prisoner.

The town's people are frightened and literally anybody can be the next victim, so Gaston steps up to create a team of people who are willing to risk their necks to save the town.

Gaston is a hero looking to save the town and protect the woman he loves, even if he has to die to do it (which he does, because the beast murders him).

POSSIBLE COUNTER ARGUMENTS

1. Belle told the town's people not to go after the Beast.

Belle displayed all the symptoms of Stockholm syndrome and probably did in fact have it. It's immoral to deny a victim justice because they had to develop this disorder as a defence mechanism.

2. Gaston locked up Belles father in a mental ward.

The guy was ranting about a beast and literally acting like a nut. He is also somebody who the town knew enough about to steer clear due to his history of mental illness. Also earlier in the movie he invents a hacking machine which is incredibly dangerous and puts ever body's life at risk.

Gaston was merely trying to get Maurice the help he needed by seeking professional treatment of his mental illness.


TheBlueWizard

Con

That picture you uploaded reminds me of the busty Captain America picture. *shivers*

Rebuttal to "A Tragic Love Story"

The issue at hand isn't that Gaston is arrogant, plenty of heroes are arrogant, the issue is that he's a narcissist. This is something that disqualifies him as a hero, as I'll explain in a moment, in my own contentions.

One does not deserve a person's affections just because they pay attention to you. If that was the case, stalkers would be studs. Belle repeatedly told Gaston that she just wasn't that into him, but, due to the narcissism, he continued to pursue. In fact, Belle was quite content to be alone, but he didn't care.

And let's talk about their "love" for a moment. The grimy, nasty butt hunter Gaston wanted Belle as a trophy, as another victory for himself, not as a lover, or companion. Any relationship between them would be entirely self serving on the side of Gaston, and Belle wasn't about that life. She fell in love with someone damaged, and sincere, and while it is awkwardly reminiscent of Stockholm syndrome, the feeling were real toward the Beast, something that Gaston could never have.

Rebuttal to "Heroes Journey"

Gaston never did anything "for" the town or "for" the woman he loved. He was a narcissist who couldn't handle being shut out by Belle, so he threw a hissy fit and tries to kill her love, because he was just a (insert euphemism here). He ended up dieing in the process, and the world lost someone completely replaceable.

Now on to my argument.

A Tale of a Self-Entitled Prick.

According to Kantian ethics, nothing in the world, no action, is inherently good or bad. What determines the goodness or evilness of an action is the good or bad will of the action, and this is an issue for Mr. Gaston.

Every action the grimy poacher makes is to self aggrandize himself, to force everyone in town to love him, regardless of their true feelings. This was arrogance, this was narcissism. He was a self obsessed goon that Belle would have never been happy with and that he would have ultimately cheated on or dumped just because he found another trophy in skirt.

His story is reminiscent of the internet "nice guy." The I-held-a-door-open-for-you-once-so-I-deserve-to-be-your-fricken'-boyfriend guy. This self entitlement was then combined with a high-school-quarterback-who-screws-the-cheer-captain level of narcissism. Then, the ultimate prick was born.

The world looked a bit brighter after his death, illuminated by Beast and Belle's love.

I await your counter,
TheBlueWizard
Debate Round No. 2
Wylted

Pro

"And let's talk about their "love" for a moment. The grimy, nasty butt hunter Gaston wanted Belle as a trophy, as another victory for himself, not as a lover, or companion."

The problem with this theory is that she would make a horrible trophy wife. Everyone in town thought she was a freak because of her aloofness, constant reading and weird dad. If anything it would hurt Gaston's reputation to be with her.

The only motive for being with Belle is his love for her.

Even if he did just want to plow Belle it wouldn't make him a villain but that isn't the case here. I'm also not denying that Gaston had his flaws. He certainly was arrogant and for good reasons. He was a hunk, the best hunter in the world and he was Gaston.

My opponent states that Gaston is a Narcissist but doesn't support this. Not only does he not support this but he doesn't show how having a mental illness or personality defect makes you a bad guy. If anything saying a mental illness makes you a bad guy, makes you a bad guy.

ON KANT- I'd disagree that an actions intent is what makes it moral or immoral, however I'm not arguing anything that would disagree with Kantian ethics.

It's a truism that you can't tell what's in another person's heart. The best thing you can do is to judge a man by his actions. Judging a man by his actions is certainly preferable to judging him by he percieved personality or even words since it's in our nature to present a mask and lie.

Gaston's actions say "Hero". I've outlined his actions last round but let's do it again.

Gaston sees a threat to the town (the beast). The beast has already kidnapped 2 of the town's people and nobody knows when or where this terrorist will strike next.

Gaston like a hero forms a militia to take down this threat and save the town and then proceeds to do just that.

Gaston was saving the town, which makes him a hero. Gaston was saving his future bride from an actual monster who had inprisoned her, refused to let her eat and constantly terrified her with his violent and angry outbursts.

Gaston saved the town. Gaston saved the girl.

Actions speak louder then words and they certainly speak louder than personality. Vote pro
TheBlueWizard

Con

On how we judge Gaston

This debate has, at this point, basically boiled down to whether we judge Gaston by his intentions or his actions. My opponent has a rather well reasoned point as to why we should judge actions, however with a bit more reasoning we can see that this is not the case.

My opponent has made the case that we can't know what is Gaston's heart. I differ from my opponent because he says that we can't trust someone's words because that is part of the mask people put on. The issue with this is that this more or less would only apply when talking about one's words when attempting to prop up said mask. The fact of the matter is we have plenty of options at our disposal to know Gaston's thoughts, such as when he monologues to himself.

I quote directly from Gaston;

“Who does she think she is? That girl has tangled with the wrong man! No one says no to Gaston!”

-A self-entitled Prick Gaston

We can from quotes like this that Gaston’s motives are selfish, far from a heroic selflessness. In essence, we can see into his heart. He thinks that Belle is wrong to say no in the first place. It doesn’t matter who her opinions are, all must boy before the glory of Gaston! Again, Belle is a trophy to be won. It’s irrelevant whether we think she is a good trophy, Gaston sees her as another prize and conquest to further his own egomaniacal mindset.

Once again, because we can see that we can judge his intentions, and then we’ve seen his intentions are egomaniacal and thus Kant’s principal applies. But my opponent brings up a good point; why don’t we judge him on his actions?

That’s because that judging him on his actions creates a fine illusion of a hero. If we judge solely on actions, then we see that leaves no filter for people like Napoleon, Stalin or even from a certain mindset Hitler. We have to judge their intentions as well as actions to see who is and isn’t a hero. Which leads me too…

A two pronged approach

The average Joe is no hero. His intentions may be pure, but has no actions. On the flip side, the average Napoleon is no hero either. They have plenty of action, but nothing but ill intention. Therefore, to be a hero you need both great intention and action. Using both we can see Gaston is no hero.

The Intentions

As I have already shown, his actions are nothing but unbridled egotism (forgive the poor word choice earlier, no idea it was an actual disorder). Because of this egotism, his motives are selfish and therefore not heroic.

The Action

While he’s done a couple impressive feats, his actions are also not heroic. For this we can see

  • Several counts of random and unprovoked violence
  • Several counts of disturbing the peace
  • Harassment
  • Unjust imprisonment
  • Attempted murder of his “love’s” actual love
  • Multiple counts of brooding
  • Defying physics by firing three separate shots from a one shot musket
    • Dark Witchcraft

Egotists aren’t heroes. Spidermen are heroes.

Debate Round No. 3
Wylted

Pro

Gaston's quote

"Who does she think she is? That girl has tangled(tangoed) with the wrong man! No one says no to Gaston!"

This is more of a statement that shows Gaston is confident he can woo the girl. I don't see how it would imply anything else.

Even if it did show Gaston was butt hurt, being but hurt doesn't make you a bad person.

"We can from quotes like this that Gaston"s motives are selfish, far from a heroic selflessness. In essence, we can see into his heart. He thinks that Belle is wrong to say no in the first place. It doesn"t matter who her opinions are, all must boy before the glory of Gaston! Again, Belle is a trophy to be won."

Saying Gaston sees her as a trophy is no different than saying Gaston sees the girl as having a lot of worth. I think that morality should be derived from our selfish desires but debating ethical Egoism is beyond the scope of this debate. I don't like my opponent villianizing selfishness because I see nothing inherently wrong with it.

Gaston certainly doesn't think Belle is wrong with saying no. That assertion is unsupported. I think it could be just as easily said that Gaston likes a chase otherwise he would have chosen to be with any of the bar maids that were fawning over him. In my opinion the bar maids continually fawning over him were pretty hot but he disregarded them.

"Several counts of random and unprovoked violence

None were unprovoked. His side kick physically grabbed his face before one instance. He was killing a monster who had a habit of kidnapping and holding prisoner the town people and in another act he was breaking up a bar fight. You got nothing on my guy.

Several counts of disturbing the peace

No he doesn't unless you count some wild partying in an already loud bar on the outskirts of town.

Harassment

Talking to a girl you find pretty and are in love with doesn't qualify as harassment

Unjust imprisonment

You're thinking of the beast who he tried to save the town from, unless you're referring to Belle's father who needed psychological help in which Gaston paid out of his own pocket to see he was helped.

Attempted murder of his "love"s" actual love

She had Stockholm syndrome. The beast held her prisoner was mean and angry towards her and even starved her at one point.

The fact is Gaston tried to save the town and his love.

I think saving the town qualifies him as a hero. He even died in an attempt to save the town from a beast who randomly kidnaps and terrorizes people.
TheBlueWizard

Con

"This is more of a statement that shows Gaston is confident he can woo the girl. I don't see how it would imply anything else."

"Even if it did show Gaston was butt hurt, being but hurt doesn't make you a bad person."

This isn't about being butt hurt or even confidence. No, this is a statement of this character thinking that Belle was wrong to say no in the first place. Once again, I quote Gaston directly;

- "Who does she think she is?... No one says no to Gaston!"

Anyone who says no is automatically wrong. No one says no to Gaston, no one. And that callus disregard for the will, opinions, and rights of others does make him a bad person.

Saying Gaston sees her as a trophy is no different than saying Gaston sees the girl as having a lot of worth.

Perhaps my misunderstands what I meant by using the word trophy. One sees worth in a trophy, yes, but a trophy is an object. An accomplishment. Something to be looked at and desired, but not something that thinks for itself, not something that has hopes and aspirations of its own. Objectifying people, even in a way that makes someone a good object, is still wrong and harmful. It dehumanizes them.

"I think that morality should be derived from our selfish desires but debating ethical Egoism is beyond the scope of this debate. I don't like my opponent villianizing selfishness because I see nothing inherently wrong with it."

I'm not saying being selfish makes you a villain. I'm not saying a character being selfish makes them the antagonist. I'm not even saying that good people can't be selfish. What I am saying, is that it bars Gaston from being a hero. Heros are, by definition, selfless rather than selfish. They put others ahead of themselves.

Heros must put the greater good ahead of their own, and Gaston doesn't do that. He seems incapable of doing that. That is why he isn't a hero.

"None were unprovoked."
"No he doesn't unless you count some wild partying in an already loud bar on the outskirts of town."

In that scene he clearly attacks several people in the bar without provocation. He just jumps and attacks whilst proclaiming his brilliance.

"Talking to a girl you find pretty and are in love with doesn't qualify as harassment"

*Actively pursuing her when she has explicitly stated that she is not interested is harassment.

"You're thinking of the beast who he tried to save the town from, unless you're referring to Belle's father who needed psychological help in which Gaston paid out of his own pocket to see he was helped."

For that I can only quote Gaston's best friend,

"(No one) plans to persecute harmless crackpots like Gaston!"
-Lafou, after talking to Gaston about his plan after the song number "Gaston"

I'm afraid I'm running out of character, but suffice to say I disagree with my opponent's last point. He did it out of his own selfish desires. Which, once again, doesn't neccessarly condemn him as evil, but with the lack of selflessness makes him no hero.

Thanks for the stimulating debate,
The Blue Wizard
Debate Round No. 4
21 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Yes, I'll challenge you
Posted by TheBlueWizard 2 years ago
TheBlueWizard
I have yet to complete five debate, but may I accept the debate regardless?
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I disagree that he's a douche towards Belle. He was the only person in the town to give her the time of day.
Posted by Squirrelnuts57 2 years ago
Squirrelnuts57
He is a hero for the town, because the town doesn't understand the Beast. But he is a complete douchebag towards Belle.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
No, how to properly define hero will be central to this debate.

We'll have to mostly argue who's definition of hero should be accepted and why.
Posted by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
Define hero.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Specifically Disney's version.
Posted by Khaos_Mage 2 years ago
Khaos_Mage
Is this specifically Disney's version?
Posted by LostintheEcho1498 2 years ago
LostintheEcho1498
I definitely could see this getting pulled off. I remember watching a video about the top 10 disney villains and Gaston made the list. The way they describe him, however, was interesting because they seem to only find him a villain as he is an antagonist to the protagonist. Otherwise, everyone loves him and he is happy(albeit biased) to help the village. I can interested to see the counter to this.
Posted by intellectuallyprimitive 2 years ago
intellectuallyprimitive
Gaston could be considered a hero, albeit he did have an ulterior motive and an agenda that motivated his actions. It depends on "who" considered him a hero. I may accept, but I'm going review the the plot first.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dtaylor971 2 years ago
dtaylor971
WyltedTheBlueWizardTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: After all starting contentions were set forward, the debate turned to the question of "how do you judge whether someone is a hero?" Con tells us that a hero has to be a near perfect being with good intentions in both his actions and his mindset. I did not buy con's argument that Gaston attempted to kill his true love's love, but I do buy pro's argument that Gaston killed the beast due to random acts of kidnapping and other crimes. The way I see it, the beast is a villan (as shown by pro.) Attempting to kill this beast, and trying to save people, would classify him as a "hero" regardless of his past actions. He is definitely heroic in his actions, and at least somewhat heroic in his mindset. While Gaston's pure heroism is subject to debate, pro showed beyond much doubt that Gaston is at least, in some way, a hero. That's enough to cast a ballot for the pro. S&G also to pro due to some spelling errors by con. Fun debate to vote on and good job to both.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
WyltedTheBlueWizardTied
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Reasons for voting decision: To me, it seems clear that it comes down to a simple question of whether selflessness is required for a person to be a hero. This is a point that Con pretty much bets his whole case on, and yet I only see assertions that selflessness is required. While I buy that Gaston was not selfless and that he may have committed some unjust acts, I have to weigh that against the apparent good he actually did and determine if it's enough to write him off. Con pretty much tells me that a hero has to be a perfectly good human being who does good things, and I'm just not seeing enough support for that - no definitions of heroic or hero or anything. I buy that Gaston isn't the spitting image of heroism, but as Pro is showing me, Gaston is heroic in his actions (for the most part) and may be at least partially heroic in his mindset. That's enough for me to buy that he's a type of hero, if not the typical one. Ergo, I vote Pro.