The Instigator
Danielle
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points
The Contender
ttam07
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gay Adoption and Parenting

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Danielle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,462 times Debate No: 67975
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (4)

 

Danielle

Pro

Many arguments against the legality of gay marriage include the sanctity of the family. According to social conservatives, gay people are deranged, perverted or otherwise unfit to provide a safe, functional and/or loving family environment in which kids can be raised successfully. At the very least, they argue that a proper home is strictly defined by having both a mother and a father. As such, despite the fact that lesbians can still get pregnant and gay couples can adopt, many people are opposed to same-sex headed families and think they should be discouraged if not outright illegal.

In this debate, I will be arguing that gay and lesbian couples can on balance raise children just as well as straight couples. For all intents and purposes, just as well will essentially be defined as according to the same standards of wellness and success under similar circumstances. For example, if Con argues that kids with straight parents are likely to attend college, Pro will have the burden of proving kids with gay parents are also likely to attend college (or provide an otherwise equal measure of success). This is not meant to turn into a debate about semantics or trivialities, but discuss legitimate concerns regarding same-sex parenting.

My opponent is free to make opening notes in R1, as I intend to start the debate and make my affirmative case in R2. However if he or she would like to post first, they may do so.

Thanks and good luck.
ttam07

Con

Lesbians and gay men bring children into their lives in a number of ways. In lesbian couples, frequently, one partner gives birth to a child and the other partner, the second parent, becomes a legal parent through second parent or stepparent adoption, if that's permitted in the state where they live. Gay men can do virtually the same thing by using a surrogate to carry a child born from one partner's sperm and a donor egg. But it somehow will effect your children's life, wont be successful, will effect his education in a negative way. He will be laughingstock by his surroundings, won't have any friends.
Debate Round No. 1
Danielle

Pro

Given the seemingly frivolous nature of this debate, I'm just going to copy and paste some old arguments of mine.

According to the 2000 U. S. Census, 1/3 of lesbian couples and 1/5 of gay male couples have at least one child under the age of 18 living in the home [1]. Many children are being raised by single parents or non-biological parents, including gay couples. Con will have the burden of proving that this is significantly detrimental to these children. We cannot rely on the fallacy of appeal to tradition, considering sociological trends are shifting what that tradition will become. I also think it's significant to note that these figures are 12 years old. We have good reason to believe that the numbers are even higher today.

Some points to start...

1. Being gay is not a mental disorder [2]. Like most heterosexuals, most gay people are fully functioning members of society. A good parent is responsible, competent, loving, trustworthy, etc. None of these qualities are exclusive to heterosexuals. There seem to be no qualifications of a good parent that a gay person can not possess.

2. It seems to be that a parent's sexual endeavors have little to no impact on their ability to raise a child; instead what's important is the attention and care that child receives. Most children do not know details about their parents sex lives. It is irrelevant to their relationship. If Molly's parents practice S&M, and Jim's parents haven't had sex for 15 years, those factors in themselves are probably not going to affect how well each child turns out.

3. There have been numerous studies indicating that children raised by 2 parents have more success and less emotional or behavioral problems than their single-parent counterparts. We can think of several reasons for why this is probably the case: shared division of responsibility, more resources, more emotional support, etc. Of course these same benefits can be provided by 2 parents of the same sex. A UC Berkeley study finds that data indicates there is a visible benefit to having a two-parent family, regardless of whether the couple is married, heterosexual, or same-sex [3].

4. On that note, much like adopted parents, gay parents typically have to go out of their way to have kids (i.e. in vitro fertilization). Meanwhile 50% of heterosexual babies are unplanned. Psychologist Abbie Clark explains, "That translates to greater commitment on average and more involvement" [4].

4. Jessey Levey, a Republican activist, has two gay moms and says "I am a well-adjusted heterosexual whose upbringing proves that love, not gender, makes a family... My family had strong family values. I was raised in a loving, caring household that let me be a free thinker... I'm tired of hearing that my family isn't legitimate." And while I don't want this debate to turn into a he said/ she said quote war of personal testimonials, Jeff DeGroot, a man with two lesbian moms, notes "My parents can throw a baseball and take me hiking just as well as any man could. I've always had a plethora of male role models. I never felt that I was missing anything by not having that dad for me" [5]. Kids with gay parents aren't missing out on these things.

There are plenty of people raised by gay parents who have had great experiences and turned out very well adjusted. Zach Wahl's speech about family (he also has two lesbian moms) went viral on YouTube, and I encourage my opponent to look it up. He is a very successful and admirable young man. However, I mentioned that I don't want this to turn into a debate over anecdotal evidence. We need to consider not individual cases, but how much sexuality in general influences parenthood.

5. As I've said, kids with gay parents can turn out perfectly fine, just as kids with heterosexual parents can turn out perfectly fine... or not. It could go either way. A parent only has so much influence in their child's life. "Evidence indicates that parents have little or no long term effect on their children's personality, intelligence, or mental health. The environment definitely has an effect on how children turn out, but it's not the home environment. It's not the nurture they do or don't get from their parents" [6]. Now, while no one can deny the impact parenting has on a child's emotional and behavioral development, the amount of attention and care a child receives is most important. Con must explain how a parent's sexuality, either homo or hetero, has a specific impact on a child's behavior.

6. I expect my opponent to make the argument that kids with gay parents might get teased more. There are two fundamental arguments against this premise. First, kids get teased for a plethora of reasons. Kids with parents who are fat, ugly, dumb or heck even "normal" for all intents and purposes get teased just because that's what kids do. However fat people or people with red hair (Gingers) aren't considered inherently inferior parents just because their kids might get made fun of due to qualities their parents have. Second, the reason that kids might get teased is because gay parents are still the minority. However, history shows us that through exposure, cultural norms and expectations shift. After awhile what is once obscure becomes familiar. That is why in bigger cities like New York and L.A., kids with gay parents are barely given a second thought, whereas that might not be the case in culturally stunted places like Arkansas. Exposure and acceptance is the only way to change attitudes so that this no longer becomes taboo.

7. Rather than rely on anecdotal testimonials, let's explore what science and psychology say. Ellen C. Perrin, MD, professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston reveals "The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way. In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures." Researchers looked at information gleaned from 15 different studies on more than 500 children, evaluating possible stigma, teasing and social isolation, adjustment and self-esteem, opposite gender role models, sexual orientation, and strengths.

Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress. Two other large studies involving more than 100 couples found that same-sex parents also had contact with extended family, had social support, and had a more equitable division of labor in the home [1].

In a 2010 review of virtually EVERY study on gay parenting, New York University sociologist Judith Stacey and University of Southern California sociologist Tim Biblarz found no differences between children raised in homes with two heterosexual parents and children raised with lesbian parents. While research indicates that kids of gay parents show few differences in achievement, mental health, social functioning and other measures, research shows these kids may have the advantage of open-mindedness, tolerance and role models for equitable relationships [4].

I'll leave it at that for now.

Sources:

[1] http://www.webmd.com...
[2] http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...
[3] http://turnstylenews.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...
[5] http://www.cnn.com...
[6] Wierson, M., & R. Forehand. (1994). Parent behavioral training for child noncompliance: Rationale, concepts, and effectiveness. Current Directions in Psychological Science, 5, pp 146-150. -- Referenced in "You Are Being Lied To" interview with Judith Rich
ttam07

Con

ttam07 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Danielle

Pro

Please extend my arguments.
ttam07

Con

ttam07 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Danielle

Pro

My opponent has forfeited this debate. Please extend my arguments.
ttam07

Con

ttam07 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kyle_the_Heretic 2 years ago
Kyle_the_Heretic
Danielle, I have three extended family members who are gay whom I love dearly. During the "gay bashing" days, I often stood between them and the bashers, and yet I did not, and do not defend homosexuality. Many "amiable" disagreements with them about my position is why I wrote that comment. I agree with you about standing for what you believe, regardless, but that doesn't change the fact that Con will lose, no matter who Con might have been.

Wylted, there are always exceptions to the rule, but that rarely changes the rule overall. I have seen gays, mostly in prison, ostracized by their own for harboring "anti-gay" sentiments.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I disagree Kyle. I've seen homosexuals against gay marriage that I've never seen referred to as homophobes.
Posted by Danielle 2 years ago
Danielle
Kyle, I'm called all kinds of bad names for my beliefs (for example, I am a voluntarist i.e. anarchist) and yet I still argue my views with passion. I invite you to do the same. If you are against gay parenting then I can promise you I will not refer to you as a homophobe at all (nor should it matter to the debate if you are).
Posted by Asburnu 2 years ago
Asburnu
The only real cause of success or failure in any logic argument are the lapses in accepted premises leading to the conclusion. By strictly avoiding all fallacies and backing every assertion with factual evidence, victory is assured.
Posted by Kyle_the_Heretic 2 years ago
Kyle_the_Heretic
In today's society, anyone challenging gay rights of just about any kind, risk the threat of having the word "homophobe" hanging over their heads like the Sword of Damocles, even if they themselves are gay. The first word Con types will be akin to snipping that thread. If Con doesn't die in the first round, she/he will slowly bleed to death before the final round.

Con's argument has already failed.
Posted by Danielle 2 years ago
Danielle
Thank you for your suggestions. I have changed the resolution and edited the debate.
Posted by dylancatlow 2 years ago
dylancatlow
Danielle, I think you should change the resolution to "On balance, gay couples raise kids just as well as heterosexual couples."
Posted by bossyburrito 2 years ago
bossyburrito
If only Mouthwash were to come back, you could have another 100k character debate.
Posted by Danielle 2 years ago
Danielle
I've done a similar debate in the past where in R1 I specified that all instances of semantics or exploitations of the word *can* are for all intents and purposes horrible conduct and should qualify as an automatic ff. While one could easily manipulate the terms and conditions of this debate on the premise of things like CAN or other trivialities, what I would really like to do (and perhaps I should edit the debate to specify this) is debate a social conservative who believes in the "traditional family," and to the extent that they do not think gay adoption should be legal (or is immoral). Can anyone think of a better way to word the resolution to get that debate intention across, and is anyone willing to debate that topic(s)?
Posted by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
Virtually a truism. *Can* would imply that you would only have to find one instance of gay couples being at least equal at raising kids when compared with heterosexual couples (e.g. a heterosexual couple addicted to hard drugs and domestic violence is going to be at least equal, if not far worse than a relatively normal gay couple).
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 2 years ago
Maikuru
Daniellettam07Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfizzle
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
Daniellettam07Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Ff
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Daniellettam07Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by jzonda415 2 years ago
jzonda415
Daniellettam07Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: F.F.