The Instigator
jay.gay
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
lindseyloo92
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Gay/ Lesbians need to be treated fairly.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 879 times Debate No: 32551
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

jay.gay

Pro

People who like the same gender as themselves are humans too. They shouldn't be judged for being gay. They need to be treated fairly.
lindseyloo92

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for posting this interesting, and surely entertaining, debate.

Since my opponent did not offer any definitions, I will do so now. I will define "gay/lesbians" as the group of people who identify as homosexual. I will define "need" as something that is essential for survival. I will define "fairly" as in a fair manner. All other words will be defined contextually.

Before I move into my own arguments, please allow me to concede my opponent's points that LGBT individuals are people, too. I will also concede that they should not be judged for their status as LGBT.

Now, I will offer my own contentions.

My first contention is that humans do not need to be treated fairly, since they only need three essential things to survive: food, water, and oxygen. Humans can survive without fairness, as has been proven by a sad history of abuse, discrimination, and enslavement by some portions of humanity on others. Please do not misunderstand me, because I think all of these things are fundamentally evil. However, that is not the debate my opponent has offered here. My opponent has only argued that LGBT people NEED to be treated fairly, which is obviously not true, since they have survived for centuries in an unfair and sometimes hostile society. Unless my opponent can prove that fairness is something essential to human survival, like food, water, and air, then I win the round.

My second contention is that fairness is subjective, and thus unachievable. What I believe is fair treatment may not be what you consider fair treatment. Until humans can agree on what is fair and what is not, we will always live in an unfair society that reflects only the individuals' in power views of fairness, and not what fairness actually is. What seems fair to you may be that all LGBT couples should be allowed to marry. What seems fair to me may be that marriage should be entirely abolished. How do we decide? Unless you offer some standard of what fairness actually is, it is totally subjective to everyone's personal opinion. Fairness is also completely unachievable. Take a look at our society and, indeed, every human society the world has ever known for the empirical proof of this. There is always a group of people being marginalized and abused by its government. The real answer is not to urge fairness on a legal level, which is unachievable, but to attain the ultimate fair society by overthrowing the government and letting anarchy rule. Humans can't create fairness. Only nature can do that.
Debate Round No. 1
jay.gay

Pro

Okay, what I meant by "fair" is that gay and lesbian people (people who like the same gender as them selves) shouldn't be so judged. People will kill these type of people because "God" says it's wrong. The thing is gay people are no different than black people, white people, chinese people, ect. They are humans too. I think what needs to be done is equality. Martin Luther King fought for blacks to have the same rights as whites but no one fought for GAYS to have the same rights as other human beings. People who hate gays are so against them they will KILL them and thats not fair. I agree, life can't and shouldn't be fair but humans should have the same rights. I know how hard it is to be gay. I can't go a day without negativity, kind of how blacks were treated. Now blacks and whites are equal but gays aren't. Thats not equality.
lindseyloo92

Con

My first argument in response to this is a moving target argument. Basically, my opponent is trying to clarify her argument and redefine the word "fair" when she did not offer a definition in the first round. However, I will concede that LGBT people should not be judged.

My opponent claims that people will kill LGBT individuals, but I need some statistics on this. How many LGBT people are killed annually, and how many are actually classified as hate crimes?

I will again concede that LGBT people are people, too. However, I would argue that the LGBT community has several leaders, rolemodels, and organizations that are dedicated to fighting for their rights and protecting them within the law.

I concede that it's not fair for people to be murdered for being gay, but this is just the agreement of two people. As I explained in our first round, what's fair to you and me may not be fair to others. The fundamental problem with this topic is that fairness is subjective. In order to win the round, you need to show how fairness is not subjective.

You argue that blacks and whites are equal as a comparison to how LGBTs are treated, but I would argue that blacks and whites are not equal in our country. Empirically, black individuals are paid less than white individuals, live in lower socio-economic neighborhoods, and have higher rates of incarceration. I do not believe this is a problem they create, but an unfair problem that society creates. This is just one more example of how fairness is completely unachievable and thus pointless to strive towards.

You drop my argument on the word "need."
Debate Round No. 2
jay.gay

Pro

jay.gay forfeited this round.
lindseyloo92

Con

Please extend my points. Thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
jay.gay

Pro

jay.gay forfeited this round.
lindseyloo92

Con

lindseyloo92 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
jay.gay

Pro

jay.gay forfeited this round.
lindseyloo92

Con

lindseyloo92 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Smithereens 4 years ago
Smithereens
Con uses semantics by taking advantage of the lack of definition. But ah well, no rule against it :P
Posted by jay.gay 4 years ago
jay.gay
you are right danielawsome12, but what I'm trying to get at is Gays shouldn't be treated the way they are. So what? they like the same gender, thats no one but THERE OWN problem.
Posted by danielawesome12 4 years ago
danielawesome12
Instigator you're wrong, you have a right to treat gays as you want within public law, therefore this violates freedom of speech.
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