Gay Marriage Should Be Legalized
Debate Rounds (5)
1st round: acceptance
2st round: opening arguments
3rd round: rebuttals
4th round: 2nd arguments
5th round: rebuttals and closing statements.
Now, in regards to your argument.
'If everyone was gay, how would the earth's population grow?'
That is not what we're debating. We're debating if gay marriage should be legalized, not that everyone should be gay. Thats like me going onto a debate about the death penalty and arguing: if everyone was dead, how would the earth's population grow? It would still grow if the death penalty was legal, regardless of your opinion on the death penalty, because guess what. Not everyone is on death row.
' male cannot have a child with another male, same thing with females'
There is something called adoption. Do you really think that the only reason people get married is for babies? There are elderly couples that get married, couples where the woman can't get pregnant or the man can't produce sperm. Should they not get married just because they can't have children? Thats ridiculous.
' Gay marriage is not natural'
Another overused, incorrect argument which I hear too often. I like how you use no evidence to back up this claim. You say gay MARRIAGE isn't natural- well, by that logic, marriage itself is not natural, because you don't see marriage in nature.
You DO however, see gay and lesbian animals in nature. There are many instances of dogs, cats, rodents, etc being gay, and scientists have found reasons as to how they could have been born gay. I didn't 'choose' to be straight, just as gays and lesbians didn't 'choose' to be their own sexual orientation. Because they were born like that, it obviously is natural, and because it is seen in nature, it MUST be natural.
Heres MY evidence for homosexual animals. Look it up yourself. You'll see a bunch more sites to look at if wikipedia is too inaccurate a source for you.
' We were created to populate the earth and to do that we have to be married to another gender.'
Again, not all couples that get married can reproduce. And I don't believe in a creator, so I don't consider that part of your argument valid to me personally.
* Genesis 1:27, 28
** Leviticus 18:22
One thing I really do not like is when religious people use the bible as an argument against gays. I do not believe in god myself, so I do not consider the bible a good argument- particularly as the bible is solid evidence. I mean, nobody knows if god is real or not. Then again, others do, so I'll verse you on the assumption that a god does exist if thats what you wish.
Now, can I ask you why god hates gays? He created everything, right? According to that logic, he must have created gays- or the genetic coding that controls whether a person is lesbian, bi, straight or gay at the very least. Speaking from experience, I know one lesbian and have two bisexual friends, and I have spoken to gays on the internet. Not one of them has chosen to be gay, bi or lesbian, just as I have not chosen to be straight.
On top of that, god (assuming he exists) gave man freewill for a reason, right? What is the point of him giving us freewill if we cannot exercise that freewill? If we lie with another person of the same sex, he'll send us to hell? If we don't believe in him, he'll send us to hell? That is NOT freewill, that is a threat. That is like if I robbed somebody, pointing a gun at them and said: Give me your money or I'll shoot you in the face.
One could say that the person I'm robbing has freewill- they can either give me their money, or die- they have a choice, right? NO, because that isn't how it works. If lying with another person of the same sex will label me a sinner or send me to hell for exercising my own freewill that god gave me, then its NOT freewill. Its threatening someone and scaring them into doing something that they do not want to do.
On top of that, the bible also says that men shouldn't shave their beards, so how come nobody makes a fuss over that, but they make a fuss over gay people? The bible says to be loving to everybody, right? So even if you don't accept gays, how does their marriage effect YOU in any way, and how is it loving to deny them freedom?
If god does not send you to hell, who does? Don't tell me you 'send yourself' to hell. I can't choose to believe in god or not, thats not how it works. God has a responsibility to prove to me that he exists if he loves me enough to want me to get into heaven, instead of getting people to write it in dodgy books with tonnes of contradictions in them. Maybe, instead, he should appear to each person and give them a distinct message that proves he exists? Don't tell me its a test of faith, because that still doesn't explain who sends you to hell.
Gays are humans also, and while some who might disagree with gay marriage may be benefited by your god's laws, how is it fair to gays, or to people like me who support gay marriage? I have female family members who are bi. They've gone out with girls in the past, and they aren't monsters. They're loving, caring people who only want to love who they're attracted to. Why do they deserve to go to hell just for loving who they were born to love?
Now, lets assume god isn't real for a moment here. I want you to give me 3 good, NON-RELIGIOUS reasons as to why gays should not get married, and I want them to be original reasons that you haven't stated before. Because if you can't come up with anything then it appears as if your gods only purpose is to oppress and deny others their freedom, which is not an example of a loving god at all.
"It is impossible to follow laws that you cannot control. You do NOT choose to be gay, as animals in nature and humans themselves show."
First of all, the Bible does not comment on the biology but the bible does say that some traits are strongly engrained. 1 Corinthians 10: 4 says "For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things." But notice that it did not say, permanently entrenched things. So they CAN ignore their impulses towards the same sex. Which means they can change. So it is not IMPOSSIBLE to follow god's laws, it might be difficult, but never impossible. Second you said they do not choose to be gay, which means you are saying that they are born gay, just as nobody can choose their own skin color. But does that even make sense? When a baby is born and it is male and it sees a male doctor, does it get boner because he is attracted to this male doctor? No like normal babies he cries and cries until he is back with his mom. Same thing with girls. So nobody is BORN gay. it is a gradual thing. Maybe they saw an attractive male at work or in school, it is their choice to act on that desire, or to ignore it, which would mean like I said before it is not IMPOSSIBLE follow gods laws.
"On top of that, the bible also says that men shouldn't shave their beards, so how come nobody makes a fuss over that, but they make a fuss over gay people? "
Where the heck did that come from?! The bible has MANY scriptures when people shaved their beards. Genesis 41:14 says, "So PharR42;aoh sent for Joseph, and they brought him quickly from the prison.He SHAVED and changed his clothes and went in to PharR42;aoh." Israelite men of old wore beards of moderate length, and they used a razor to keep them well trimmed. The scripture i think you are referring to is Leviticus 19:27, but that did not mean not to shave at all. It meant for them not to act like the nations around them when they shaved. People used to shave to worship false gods and god was trying to keep them away from that.
"If god does not send you to hell, who does? Don't tell me you 'send yourself' to hell."
Nobody goes to Hell. The bible also says that sinful people on this world will die, not in hell. The majority of good people will live on earth, and the rest will go to heaven. (144,00 will go to heaven to be exact.)
"God has a responsibility to prove to me that he exists if he loves me enough to want me to get into heaven, instead of getting people to write it in dodgy books with tonnes of contradictions in them."
First of all since god created us, he does not have to prove anything to us. Lovingly he does. The bible is proof of that. He could of kept all the things in the bible to himself, but he didn't he gave it to us through the bible. Second the bible does not have contradictions. The bible is the word of god and does not make mistakes.
"Gays are humans also, and while some who might disagree with gay marriage may be benefited by your god's laws, how is it fair to gays, or to people like me who support gay marriage? I have female family members who are bi. They've gone out with girls in the past, and they aren't monsters. They're loving, caring people who only want to love who they're attracted to. Why do they deserve to go to hell just for loving who they were born to love?"
Read my first statement in this post.
"I want you to give me 3 good, NON-RELIGIOUS reasons as to why gays should not get married, and I want them to be original reasons that you haven't stated before."
1.The natural order of nature, whether you are religious or not, means that gay couples cannot fulfill their base purpose as an organism.
2.Without a genetic causation, sexual preference in behavior is clearly a choice, a choice which no one is compelled to make.
3.Experts have proven that gay marriage is not natural.
Thats ridiculous. Just because he doesn't get a boner from seeing the male doctor doesn't mean that they were not born with an attraction to males.
1) Just as straight people aren't necessarily attracted to every boy or girl they see, gays and lesbians don't need to be attracted to every boy or girl THEY see. That'd prove they had a wild sex drive more then anything.
2) Thats like saying that a straight girl would get wet or a straight guy would get an erection every time they saw somebody of an opposite sex, which doesn't happen, does it? You wouldn't use that as an example.
Once again, I see you are using examples from the bible. Is the bible the only reason you have anything against gay marriage? Surely you must have at least one scientific reasons. For the rest of the debate, lets pretend that a god doesn't exist. I've humored your beliefs enough, now you humor mine and give me only scientific reasons from this point on.
Nobody goes to Hell. The bible also says that sinful people on this world will die, not in hell. The majority of good people will live on earth, and the rest will go to heaven. (144,00 will go to heaven to be exact.)'
Then do you mind explaining all the quotes in the bible about hell? Heres just one site's giant list if you want to see for yourself.
'First of all since god created us, he does not have to prove anything to us. Lovingly he does. The bible is proof of that. He could of kept all the things in the bible to himself, but he didn't he gave it to us through the bible. Second the bible does not have contradictions. The bible is the word of god and does not make mistakes.'
The bible is not good evidence for a creator. What 'things in the bible'? Nearly everything in the bible was known at the time. It reflects the opinions and beliefs of those who lived at the time and nothing more. Nothing in depth, no deep message that could possibly have come from a deity. The bible discriminates against gays, women and more, just as those people at the time did. If you really think the bible has no mistakes then you must be crazy. Look it up for yourself. Heres just ONE major contradiction that I thought was strange in 5th grade.
How could somebody possibly get enough food for two elephants, let alone millions of other species on the ark? Plus, the water levels would have killed off most of the MARINE life, given the atmospheric changes and water pressure and changes in humidity. Then there would be genetic disorders from the animals procreating and they would have gotten sick and jumped off the arc, etc. Then, where'd all the water go? Oh, thats right- it disappeared into thin air because god can do anything he wants, conveniently enough.
Then you say god doesn't make mistakes. Lmao, yes, he does. If were created in gods image, and god makes no mistakes, then why exactly is the human body, just as one example so flawed? Our air and food goes down the same pipe, which makes for a choking hazard, our muscles in our chest get crushed together when he run causing that annoying pain in your side, we get cancers from cell mutation failures... need I go on? I can list the countless other contradictions in nature and the bible if I must.
3) I'm very interested in seeing where you got that from, because its the other way around. They have. And I've provided evidence for it. Gays are seen in nature, which means it must be natural. I'll give you a link from youtube because gay marriage being unnatural has been thoroughly debunked. I wouldn't be surprised if your 'experts' were religious.
2) and 1) https://www.youtube.com...
^there you go. Cheesy video, but it should explain a few things for you. All the arguments in this video family members and friends have used on me, and this video debunks each argument nicely.
So in essence, you are saying we don't have freewill. That it was never our choice to be gay or not, and that it is not right to follow laws that we cannot control, so it is okay to be gay, and that gay marriage should be legalized. In essence that is what you are saying.
In essence I am saying that we do have freewill. It is a choice to be gay or not, and the the right choice would be to choose to not be gay. So to be gay is not okay, and gay marriage should NOT legalized. In essence that is what I am saying. In the future you will see that I am right.
I have decided not to debate any further, if I know that I will not influence anyone thoughts on the matter.
I already know for a fact, that all of you, that have been viewing this debate, will most likely vote for Bagelmaster10. In the comments already you are going against me. Which I was prepared to take on. All that I ask, is that you all make it a fair match, and actually look at BOTH of our arguments, and really think about my point of view on this topic and also bagel's point of view on this topic.
BagelMaster10, it has been a interesting debating with you, and I think you would do great on a debate team, if you are not already on one.
Thank You and Goodbye.
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