The Instigator
LandonWalsh
Pro (for)
Winning
39 Points
The Contender
VinhVuong
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

Gay Marriage should be legal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,418 times Debate No: 1755
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (20)

 

LandonWalsh

Pro

Gay Marriage should be legal, and churches should stop lobbying Washington to ban gay marriage. I'll allow my opponent to make the opening argument......
VinhVuong

Con

First of all Landonwalsh, you say you are from the Republican Party, I think not.

Back to the issue, Gay Marriage I have a firm disbelief in it. I think they can be gay but just do not get married. A marriage is between a man and a women. They can do whatever on their personal time but getting married is something they just should not do.
Debate Round No. 1
LandonWalsh

Pro

In a FREE society, things go far past what people should do, and are represented by what they can do.

And yes... Republican... I hold the values and principles the Republican Party were founded on... But you wouldn't know those would you? You just know what you're told, while i've majored in History and Political Science. I've also been a Republican all my life, am a active member of my local party, and already have everything set up for me to be a delegate at the RNC.

Now, back on my marriage subject...

Ask yourself this: Is marriage an institution of the church or the state?
Some will say both, but most if not all will say that is a spiritual union and contract deriving from god and church. The state's contractual involvement is limited to property and children.

The two arguments given by anti-gay marriage individuals involve both contracts.

Argument 1: God is strictly against Homosexual behavior and marriage, thus gay marriage should be outlawed.

Argument 2: The children of homosexual marriages would be confused and suffer.

Rebuttal 1: As an institution of the church it is a church's decision weather or not a marriage should be allowed within that church and that church alone. Banning gay marriage at the state or federal level is no different of a situation than legislation being passed that forces churches to marry homosexuals. Both outsource church choice and both further destroy church sovereignty.

The state also has a duty to acknowledge any contract made by any two individuals or group of individuals as long as all parties agree to that contract and no party was coerced into that contract. In a truly free society, two individuals could make a contract to fight to the death that would bar the victor of criminal repercussions… But sadly we live in so such society.

Also, the bible involves mans relationship with god and not mans influence on man. Christians are supposed to be a shining light for people and not their tyrannical moral enforcement. If a person or a group of people decide to go against god's will and get married or marry homosexuals… They have that god given right to do so…

Rebuttal 2: This is possibly the silliest argument ever… First of all, children are much smarter that we give them credit for and often accept situations long before stubborn adults will.

Second, you will find that homosexual couples adopt and take care of mentally disabled children more often than heterosexual couples. A solution to a very sad problem?

And last there are no studies whatsoever proving that children of homosexual parents end up being somehow scarred. It is simply unproven fear propaganda.

BTW... Real republicans don't support Taxes like the National Retail Sales Tax or the Flat Tax... mostly because it is the closest thing to a progressive tax you can get to without having a progressive tax... It is socialist, and communist. The true Republican position isn't one tax or the other, it is no tax.

Also, True republicans, are not for Social Programs and Social Security, nor are they for war... Because War is the Health of the State, and this party was founded in strong Anti-statist ideas...
VinhVuong

Con

Ask yourself this: Is marriage an institution of the church or the state?
Marriage is part of church. When you get married you make a commientment to god and a oath.

Rebuttal 1: First of all the Catholic Church should have soveirgenty. Second of all the United States was built by founding fathers who believed in God and God had a lot of to do with everything around us. Second of all the church should not influence what the legislative but I just suggest that.

This is a free society but their is boundarys. If this is just mainly free then everything should be legal then shouldn't it? We make laws to maintain order and to keep society going on the right direction.

Rebuttal 2:

Homosexual couples could not have a baby anyways so they have to adopt. And having kids in need wouldn't happen if boneheaded people who have kids do not care for them, who cant support them and decided to have sex and etc.

There is no tests or studies but that is just science, you do not need to do it. Just ask people with gay parents. I know a few that i dont really talk to much but they seem misearable. They are gothic, and those lost souls out there. I feel bad for them. And a man is what protects the child and a woman is what natures it.

BTW... I am a social conservative-republican and I hope you the party has shifted in recent years.
Debate Round No. 2
LandonWalsh

Pro

Rebuttal 1:" First of all the Catholic Church should have soveirgenty."

Ok... Agreed... Your point?

"Second of all the United States was built by founding fathers who believed in God and God had a lot of to do with everything around us. "

Agreed... Your point?

"Second of all the church should not influence what the legislative but I just suggest that."

Disagree, the church should have the ability to petition the government just like everyone else. They should just respect other churches' sovereignty. And in doing that, they should not keep another church from marrying whomever they want.

"This is a free society but their is boundarys."

And those boundaries are such: Theft of: Life, Liberty, and Property

"If this is just mainly free then everything should be legal then shouldn't it?"
No because no one would be free if you did not have law protecting Life, Liberty, and Property. Theft of life is death, theft of liberty is slavery, theft of property is a democrat... lol j/k...

"We make laws to maintain order and to keep society going on the right direction."

Society makes its own directions and has nothing to do with maintaining liberty, law on the other hand is only in place to maintain Life, Liberty, and Property

"Homosexual couples could not have a baby anyways so they have to adopt."
lol, well...

"And having kids in need wouldn't happen if boneheaded people who have kids do not care for them, who cant support them and decided to have sex and etc. "

Can't say I disagree...

"There is no tests or studies but that is just science, you do not need to do it."
Huh?

"Just ask people with gay parents."
I have a friend who's parents are gay... he's fine... and likes girls...

"I know a few that i dont really talk to much but they seem misearable."
So your saying this happens to everyone?

"They are gothic, and those lost souls out there. I feel bad for them."
Oh, your right the gothic people are odd... but it seems to be the "cool" thing to them... so not cool...

"And a man is what protects the child and a woman is what natures it."
My dad was never around... I turned out all right...

"BTW... I am a social conservative-republican and I hope you the party has shifted in recent years."

I figured that... I'm a political science major and i can peg a political ideology before your done with the first sentence. lol I'm a libertarian-republican... Means we are not that diffrent... I just respect personal freedoms more. The worst kinds of Republicans are Totalitarian Big government republicans and Neo-Cons...
VinhVuong

Con

VinhVuong forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by JonJon 8 years ago
JonJon
If marriage is a "religious" institution then why is it so intertwined within the federal tax system. That is just ridiculous. There are over 1100 federal benefits afforded married couples that are not accessible to homosexuals couples.

Also, there have been many recent studies showing the children of homosexual couples are just as healthy, physically and emotionally, as children from heterosexual couples. Perhaps Vinh needs to needs to do a bit more research and take a less biased approach.

Marriages are not only about raising children. My mother was remarried in her 70s. I'm sure she and her 80 year old husband were not thinking about raising a family.

I have many gay friends raising kids. One lesbian couple I know raised 5 kids together... they're all out of the house, some are married, but all are happy and healthy. One thing I do notice about their kids... their not full of prejudices and hate. They are very tolerant of people different than themselves. I'd say they're a bit more evolved than my neices and nephews of the same age... and they were raised by heterosexuals! Go figure.
Posted by LandonWalsh 8 years ago
LandonWalsh
I'm agnostic... I know government only recognizes the legal bindings of it. In fact, I said that. The fact is though, Marriage is a religious institution.
Posted by Lenfent 8 years ago
Lenfent
TREATY OF TRIPOLI
1796
ARTICLE 11

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Also: Two atheists can have a completely secular marriage. Marriage does not have to be a religious institution. In fact, the U.S. government only recognizes the legal bindings of it. This is not a theocracy; this is a secular government, like it or not.
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