The Instigator
johnwooding1
Pro (for)
Losing
16 Points
The Contender
MoonDragon613
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Gay Marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,829 times Debate No: 2499
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (10)

 

johnwooding1

Pro

Gay Marriage is as legitimate as heterosexual marriage:

1) Love will always be love regardless as whom it is to.

2) It is a persons right to a homosexual marriage and no one should be able to take that right away. If someone does not wish to have a gay marriage then they don't have to, but my question for my opponent is why take that right away from some one else?
MoonDragon613

Con

For the sake of argument, I am willing to shove aside the question of the morality of homosexuality. Although males falling in love with males and engaging in acts of love is an act of tremendous and unsurpassed evil, worthy of execution in the most gruesome and public manner (as is often the case in Iran), for the moment I am willing to adopt the liberal position towards homosexuality overall. (By the way, this does not apply to acts of love between females) Yet still, I am against Gay Marriage.

Classical conservative philosophy posits a nuclear family unit with a clear chain of command and two different figures playing different roles in the support and rearing of children. Marriage is not about love, it is about child rearing. Without marriage contracts, the optimal strategy for males is to go out and impregnate as many females as possible. With a marriage, females and force interested males to provide for and protect the offspring as well as the female during the times of pregnancy. As you can see therefore, a Gay Marriage contradicts the purpose and effectiveness of marriage. Foremost, Gay individuals cannot produce offspring that share both sets of DNA. Secondly, because both individuals are of the same gender, they cannot form the appropriate hierarchy and perform the appropriate roles to provide an appropriate developing environment for adopted or inseminated offspring. And of course any offspring of a gay couple would be subject to tremendous ridicule and abuse from peers and probably school officials as well, clearly gay marriage does not achieve the function of marriage.

Secondly, gay marriage should be forbidden simply because many people are opposed to gay marriage. It does not matter whether gay couples form more or less stable commitments, the fact that the majority of Americans oppose gay marriage means there should be no gay marriage.
Marriage is not some inherent sacred right granted to individuals by virtue of their being human or American. The right to live perhaps, the freedom to earn income, the right to confront an accuser, those are fundamental rights. Just as protection against employment discrimination, the rights of gays to marry depends on the whims of the public, and so long as the public is against it, gays should not have the right to marry.
Debate Round No. 1
johnwooding1

Pro

I have to comment on the following:

1) 'the fact that the majority of Americans oppose gay marriage means there should be no gay marriage.'

. So lets say we go back to the 50's. So would you say that since the majority of Americans did not favor equal rights than Blacks didn,t deserve any?

2) 'because both individuals are of the same gender, they cannot form the appropriate hierarchy and perform the appropriate roles to provide an appropriate developing environment for adopted or inseminated offspring.'

. This statement is completely false the American Psychological Association, representing more than 155,000 psychologists, states that children of gay and lesbian parents are at no disadvantage psychologically or socially compared to children of heterosexual parents.
. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the nation's leading pediatric authority with 57,000 members, says that children who grow up with gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social and sexual functioning as children with straight parents.
. The National Association of Social Workers, with nearly 150,000 members, agrees that research on gay and lesbian parenting shows a total absence of pathological findings in their children.
"Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth." -- Charles J. Patterson, researcher at the University of Virginia, 2004

Now for my own argument:

Never has the word discrimination been a positive thing, Discrimination agianst innocent people is clearly wrong. If anyone does not wish to have a gay marrige than simply do not get one.
MoonDragon613

Con

First, because the majority of Americans opposed federal government intervention in enforcing equal rights, there was no federal government intervention. It wasn't until the majority of Americans supported federal government intervention, as there are today, that the federal government stepped in.

Secondly, of course gay parents are unsuited to raise children. Gay parents will corrupt their adopted children or inseminated children and make them gay too.
http://journals.cambridge.org...
The world as it is today is not a safe and healthy environment for gay children. From the time of even elementary school, children learn to link the word "gay" with the emotions of disgust and ridicule. Hostile would be the best word to describe the world, and it would be irresponsible for the government to allow children subject to such a life through allowing for gay marriages.
Debate Round No. 2
johnwooding1

Pro

I will set the record straight by correcting my opponent on the following:

1)Secondly, of course gay parents are unsuited to raise children. Gay parents will corrupt their adopted children or inseminated children and make them gay too.

. The bulk of evidence to date indicates that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are no more likely to become homosexual than children raised by heterosexuals.

http://adoption.about.com...

2)The world as it is today is not a safe and healthy environment for gay children. From the time of even elementary school, children learn to link the word "gay" with the emotions of disgust and ridicule. Hostile would be the best word to describe the world, and it would be irresponsible for the government to allow children subject to such a life through allowing for gay marriages.

. My opponent contradicts himself in this statement. It is because of people like him that discriminate against homosexuals that the word gay is linked to ridicule and disgust. The simple solution to the scenario he described would be to stop discriminating.

Now for my closing argument:

Gays entitled to marriage just like heterosexuals are. Same-sex couples are as committed and happy in their romantic relationships as heterosexual couples, find two studies in the January issue of the journalDevelopmental Psychology. Homosexual couples should not be treated so savagely. They are who they are. They would still have romantic relationships even if they aren't allowed to marry. My opponent has lacked conclusive evidence to show that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry.
MoonDragon613

Con

1) Gay parents result in Gay Children.
I cited a journal printed by Cambridge University Press in its Journal of Biological Science. My opponent cited About.com. Hmmm which do you think is a more reliable source of information?

2) Perhaps my opponent should peruse a dictionary to look up the word contradict before employing it in any future arguments.

Point: Gays in America, especially gay children, face persecution and discrimination.
This goes completely unchallenged.
Point: Children of gay parents are more likely to be gay.
This is rather poorly challenged with some feeble excuse of a citation.

Therefore, Gay Marriage results in more children subject to persecution and discrimination.

And again, therefore Gay Marriage should not be allowed until widespread reform has undergone in America to put an end to intolerance and bigotry.

(Once again of course assuming that gay sex is not an abhorrent act in violation of the way the Almighty Lord created us)

Closing argument:
America is not ready to embrace Gay marriage. That they want to marry is insufficient grounds for the changing of existing legislation. We have to keep at forefront the lives of children endangered by such legislation and as we all know, children always comes first.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
No it isn't. Moondragon is a fantastic debater and crushed the debate. If you look, I have debates in my record on gay marriage both for and against (both I won).
Posted by blond_guy 8 years ago
blond_guy
its quite hypocritical since moondragon declared himself a homosexual previously on this site
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
Moondragon, I cannot argue that it didn't just pave over John. Somebody more prepared could easy demolish it. Rshortman seems a little confused as to the strengths of the argument.
Posted by rshortman 8 years ago
rshortman
Although I am against Gay Marriage, I have yet to see such a beautifully articulated and plainly logical argument as presented by MoonDragon.

It takes courage to say what others are thinking but will not say.
Posted by C4747500 8 years ago
C4747500
Moondragon, want a debate on this topic? I'll send ya a challenge, just lemme know by commenting back here.
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Vote Placed by Rosewood 6 years ago
Rosewood
johnwooding1MoonDragon613Tied
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Vote Placed by C4747500 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by TonyX311 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Conservative 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by SexyLatina 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by pazmusik 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by johnwooding1 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by rshortman 8 years ago
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