The Instigator
Jocie
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
ConservativeDebater
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gay Marriage

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Jocie
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,138 times Debate No: 66766
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (54)
Votes (5)

 

Jocie

Pro

You say that being gay is not okay. And I would say, "I get it". But I don't. I don't get why you are so discriminating against people who want to be happy. I'm currently not married, or even dating, because I want to live alone and travel the world. That would make me happy. Also, chocolate makes me happy. My pet dog makes me happy. My family makes me happy. For some people, being married to or dating someone of the same sex makes them happy. If somebody takes away that right, it would be like someone taking away chocolate, my dog, my family, or the ability to travel the world from me. It's all really the same. And maybe, "God wanted us to marry people of the same sex". Sure. Maybe He did. But I know that the first thing He wanted us to be is happy, whether that means being alone and traveling, being married to your opposite sex, or being married to the same sex. And we're happy.
ConservativeDebater

Con

First off, thank you for challenging me in a debate.

You say that you don't understand why I'm discriminating against people who want to be happy. That is a very generalized term. You say that I'm taking their right to be happy. Ok sure, I am taking away their right to be happy. But, if someone cheats on their wife because it makes them happy, does that make it OK? No, it does not. If cheating on test made someone happy, that doesn't make up for their unfair advantage. My sole reason for disagreeing with gay marriage is not because "I hate gays" or "I think gays are horrible people." No, I disagree with it because I base my life off the Bible and the standard God set put. Multiple times it is mentioned in the bible that homosexuality is wrong, it's a sin. "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22). Now I'm not going to run around everywhere yelling "GAYS GO TO HELL." That'd be wrong, I don't need to do that, nor do I want to. You may ask, Ok so fine. But then why do you want to prevent them from getting married? Well not only is a marriage supposed to be for a man and women only, marriage was originally a Jewish or Christian thing. Now it's a secular thing, I'm fine with that. My only issue is that when gays get married, it desanctifies marriage.
Debate Round No. 1
Jocie

Pro

I understand that you believe being gay or lesbian is a sin, according to the bible. I am just pointing out, that from what I know by my sisters, brother, parents, and friends, I know that love can sometimes seem to defy all. If they really love them, they'll know that God is on their side no matter who they love.

There are pictures online of huge weddings when a state has finally legalized being gay. If you look at them, all the couples are so happy, there are smiles on their faces, and the skies are blue. They are happy, God is happy.

Again, I am going to point out that God may have not wanted "A man to sleep with a man as they would with a woman". And I understand. But I know that above all laws that are mentioned in the bible, He wanted us to be happy. And if you look at the pictures, they are happy indeed.
ConservativeDebater

Con

God will always be by everyone's side. But that is not the point of this argument. You said that there are pictures online of huge weddings when a state has finally legalized being gay. You say the couples look happy. You then said that since they are happy, God must be happy. That is wrong and incorrect conclusion. A man who goes to a strip club may be happy, but that does not make God happy. Just because you are happy, it does not automatically make God happy.

You mentioned, "God may have not wanted "A man to sleep with a man as they would with a woman". " Which is true, God is against homosexuality. You then go on to say that above all God wants us to be happy. That is not true. Jesus says that the most important commandment was to love the Lord with all you heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. He then says that the next equally greatest commandment is to love your neighbors as yourself. Sure happiness is great, but to be happy because of your living in sin, is not what God wants.
Debate Round No. 2
Jocie

Pro

This is the last round, am I wrong?

So I'll conclude it all with this:

I'm Jewish, and we have slightly different beliefs. A little while ago a class of eager young Jews sat eagerly in their seats listening to our teacher. She was a very wise teacher who had taught Jewish classes for a while. And that was her first year teaching sixth grade, she had always taught Jewish values and other Jewish stuff.

One of the quotes I remembered clearly was, "God will give us whatever we want, as long as we don't screw up."

Well, I'm not a movie star or a millionaire right now, so that quotes either completely incorrect, or I've screwed up at some point in my life.

And I trust my sixth grade Hebrew school teacher. She was, and still is, an inspiring person. So I think I've screwed up.

No, I'm not talking about big screwing up. I haven't committed genocide or anything bad like that. But I've made my mistakes, and everyone has.

I've done some things against the commandments, but (mostly) everyone has. Consciously or not.

I'm not dead. I have a family and a pretty good life. Nothing horrible has happened to me, even if I have "screwed up".

But this isn't about me.

To you, and many other concerned citizens, gay people have screwed up. Not tiny mistakes like I've made, but to you guys, they are huge mistakes. And I understand. But nothing bad has happened to them. Nothing that wouldn't happen to the average person.

I'm not saying it's an easy path. There are bullies. There are abusers. There are people who, unlike you, go screaming "GAYS GO BURN IN HELL!" and other people against them. But when you finally hold your partners hand and say, "I do", it will be the happiest moment of your life. And you'll know, that God has at least a little faith in you, because you were lucky enough to get married to the love of your life. It's as simple as that.
ConservativeDebater

Con

I'll be honest, that last part there really got me. "But when you finally hold your partners hand and say, "I do", it will be the happiest moment of your life. And you'll know, that God has at least a little faith in you, because you were lucky enough to get married to the love of your life. It's as simple as that." Mainly because I thought of the girl I currently like.

I don't think gays are huge mistakes. No one is a mistake. That is degrading to a human, to be called a mistake. I think gays are living in sin, but it can be changed. But I am no better than any gay person ever, because I too have sinned. I sin (unfortunately) all the time. Now of course I try to prevent it but that is not my point. I just think being gay is a sin, and that by gays getting married, it is ruining the man with wife bondage marriage is and I guess was.

I'm Christian and we have slightly different beliefs. We believe in the same God, but I believe in the Messiah, you do not. As I mentioned earlier, "Jesus says that the most important commandment was to love the Lord with all you heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. He then says that the next equally greatest commandment is to love your neighbors as yourself."
So I try to show love to anyone, including gays.

Thank you for debating with me respectfully.
Debate Round No. 3
54 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jocie 1 year ago
Jocie
I never made this debate for other people to fight. If you are fighting on here, just challenge somebody to a debate about that, not argue.
Posted by ConservativeDebater 1 year ago
ConservativeDebater
@gemmahartly first of all confession is complete baloney, it is never mentioned in the bible and it is demeaning. You till your preist that you've sins and he forgives for you? That isn't what a relationship with God is! Say you are born gay, well I'm born with the temptation to have sex outside of marriage or lust after women, that doesn't make it right for me to do it! So your saying that strippers or porn stars should go around nude everywhere because they want to be themselves. No that doesn't make sense. Homosexuality is wrong.
And @manpower2 usually women a inferior to men in the bible because it's usually refering to husband and wife. Husbands will always protect their wives because they are bigger and stronger, it's just how they are biologically. So usually they are the "man of the house" or the patriach so to speak.
Posted by manpower2 1 year ago
manpower2
thank you @gemmahartley
and the number of women pastors and priests is increasing, and the reason it is uncommon is because the bible encourages gender inequality and the holiest people (priests and pastors) go by this strictly. Since the fairly recent feminist acts and movements, the number of women priest and pastors has risen, because people are realising is morally wrong in the sense of sexism.
@Conservativedebater may you please point out where it says in the bible that men can't talk a group of woman? because as far as I know, women are meant to be in complete submission to the male 'superiors'
Posted by gemmahartley 1 year ago
gemmahartley
Can I just say that a homosexual does not have any say on how they where born, sexuality is a part of them, it makes them who they are just the same as, religion or nationality makes someone who they are. When you were talking about them hiding themselves, that's like someone coming up to you and stating that you have to hide the fact that you're Christian. It's denying them a basic right to be themselves without judgement. Homosexuality is something you cannot cure, not through therapy or anything along those lines. Also if a homosexual were to walk into confession, confess their sins, guess what? They'd still walk out gay. Nothing can change that. I honestly believe you are in no position to condemn what you don't understand. They can't help being gay, but you @ConservativeDebater can learn to live with it. And that's what we all need to do.
Posted by ConservativeDebater 1 year ago
ConservativeDebater
But have we? How many times have we seen a woman pastor? It is just uncommon. Anyway, the verse is talking about women speaking in front of only men. The same applies to men. What gives men the authority to talk to a group of all women? They don't have it.
Posted by manpower2 1 year ago
manpower2
Fair enough @Thejackal thank you
@Conservativedebater your article qualifies 'women must be silent in churches' as: "the woman is not to speak or teach in any way that violates her gender role." This still emphasises that the woman was meant to be submissive and let the man take charge and have power over her, but whether it means absolute silence, or silence in context, their is still a massive imbalance there.
My point is that we have moved on from that imbalance because it's obviously old fashioned and unfair, so why not move on from this imbalance?
We do not go by that women have to be submissive and men have to be in charge, so if there are no protests and riots about that then why are there on the topic of homosexuality?
Maybe because most people don't understand it? If so, just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong.
Posted by ConservativeDebater 1 year ago
ConservativeDebater
@manpower2 read this: https://www.christiancourier.com...

The word in greek is sigao, it doesn't necessarily keen complete and utter silence. To sum it up, this verse more talking about a women speaking where it wouldn't make sense. A women speaking to all men, that doesn't make sense. The word sigao is used three times in this chapter alone, (1) One who has the gift of tongues is to keep silence if he has no interpreter to use with his alien audience (28). (2) If a brother is speaking, and another receives a more current revelation, the former is to keep silence (30). (3) Finally, women are to keep silence (34). The word siago in this context is "silence not absolute, but qualified by context."
Posted by Thejackal 1 year ago
Thejackal
@manpower, Yea, I can see where that would be offensive. What I intended to say was that EVERYONE is a sinner and Everyone is born into sin and that if you refuse/don't to renounce it thats where it becomes a life of sin.I will be the first to admit that I was a sinner, that I am a sinner, and that I will always be bound to sin. But I try my best to live my life for God. And yes, what I said was rather insensitive. Thanks for pointing out what I said. God bless.
Posted by manpower2 1 year ago
manpower2
@no3ruben your argument has no stability. First of all, gay people are certainly not suggesting are trying to encourage people to turn gay. Lastly, you're actually supporting the 'Pro' argument. By comparing a homosexual it a sick person highlights the fact that homosexuals cannot help what they feel, much like a sick person.
Posted by manpower2 1 year ago
manpower2
@Thejackal it's slightly two-faced to say that to @gemmahartley after you said that homosexuals are born as sinners. Now I understand you may argue that is your true belief and that @gemmahartley used an insult, but I hardly think that saying homosexuals are born as sinners cannot not be portrayed as an insult, and @gemmahartley may also truly believe what she said as well.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by AbandonedSpring 1 year ago
AbandonedSpring
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro clearly won. Pro was respectful and his points were very persuasive.
Vote Placed by Hanspete 1 year ago
Hanspete
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Reasons for voting decision: Jocie made better arguments.
Vote Placed by Gabe1e 1 year ago
Gabe1e
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Reasons for voting decision: Con really just described how Jesus/God wouldn't like gay marriage, and that it is a sin.. stating "it's what God wants."
Vote Placed by Bennett91 1 year ago
Bennett91
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Reasons for voting decision: From what I can tell this debate was a theological debate in an attempt to parse the mind of God to understand whether or not homosexuals can be married on moral grounds (God being that moral ground). Each side being of another faith as expected talked past each other. However a single poignant argument made by Pro was not refuted. That being the power of genuine love. Even Con acknowledged this in the final round, he experienced empathy and did not give cause to refute other than his religion. To judge from a neutral standpoint, love is a more persuasive basis than dogma. Con's only discernible counterpoint that was not steeped in his religious interpretation was gay marriage would diminish str8 marriage. In short he did not back up this claim. The idea that allowing others to share in happiness would diminish others happiness makes no sense, if str8 people were truly happy in their marriage the actions of others would not matter.
Vote Placed by ChristianPunk 1 year ago
ChristianPunk
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Reasons for voting decision: Jocie was just more convincing in his statements.