The Instigator
morrison18669
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Elijahhill97
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points

Gay Marriage

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Elijahhill97
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2014 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 562 times Debate No: 66870
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

morrison18669

Con

Gay Marriage Argument Essay

When the world was created, and however that may have been, it was created with a purpose and a plan, that plan did not and should not ever involve same sex marriages. Gay marriages should return to being outlawed in all states.
This country was founded on biblical principals and the government is making decisions going against those principals. The government recently made a decision allowing these marriages in many states, here is what Tim Wildman, President of the American Family Association has to say.
"This is a deeply saddening day because the government not only allowed but encouraged same sex marriages in this country." Everyday this country gets farther and farther from how it started, a good, hard working, god loving, free country. Many people say that if this country is free then they should be able to be homosexual. By making that decision, it takes away the freedom of others, the freedom of religious beliefs. Being a big Christian and walking around the streets looking at men and women kissing people of the same sex is like Martin Luther King Jr. walking into a Ku Klux Klan meeting. People should not be forced to accept something that goes against the foundation they grew up on.
Speaking of growing up, every child deserves the right to grow up and be raised by the mother and father that created him/her. A child growing up with homosexual parents will be treated differently, or even bullied. That is the truth of society today, it is how this countries youth have been shaped. Also a child in that circumstance might be pressured to be something he is not. Imagine a straight young boy with two dads and how much pressure that boy may be feeling to be like his dads, or how he may feel guilty if he is not like them. Nobody wants a child to go through this.
Although gay marriage rights groups have said in the past, "God has created us equal and so we have a right to make equal choices." After this they gave a bible verse restating that claim. Well it also states in the bible many times that god is against homosexuality and making those choices is a sin against him (Tenety 3). So the sources, in which the gay marriage rights groups got their information, are not entirely in their favor and that makes their claim a lot less strong.
To further prove that this sin should be outlawed I will brief you about something that happened in the great state of Colorado.
"In Denver, baker Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, is facing state sanctions for refusing to work on gay weddings" (Jones 1). Mr. Phillips claims that his religious beliefs prevent him from working on such ceremonies and it has nothing to do with a "hatred of gays." The gay couple that was refused did not want to comment on the matter with anyone because they felt "terribly insulted" (Jones 1). There are many more cases of gay couples forcing people to go against their beliefs, and if they don"t then they get a lawsuit!
It is true that President Obama once said, "If we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well. "Yes everyone is created equal, and every child is equally entitled to life and the love of the mother and father that created that child. That is how the world is meant to function (Gallagher 2). To marry a person of the same sex and go against the worlds proper way to function, should be outlawed everywhere so people don"t mess up the natural flow of things.
Remember that everyone is created equal, but we are created to live in a way that works. We live on the biblical principals of those who founded this country, don"t let the government shy away from those principals any farther. Either make this country work the way it is supposed to with families that function the way they are supposed to, or start tearing this countries foundation down belief by belief. Where do you stand?
Q95;

Works Cited

Gallagher, Maggie. "Marriage Rights." Los Angeles Times. 27 Jun. 2013: A.19. SIRS Issues Researcher. Web. 10 Nov. 2014.

Koppel, Nathan, and Ashby Jones. "Firms Balk at Gay Weddings." Wall Street Journal. 02 Oct. 2013: A.3. SIRS Issues Researcher. Web. 10 Nov. 2014.

Tenety, Elizabeth. "Religious Leaders See 'Tragedy' and Justice in Supreme Court Gay..." Washington Post. 26 Jun. 2013: n.p. SIRS Issues Researcher. Web. 10 Nov. 2014.
Elijahhill97

Pro

I would like to begin my argument with a statement my opponent made, "This country was founded on biblical principles and the government is making decisions going against those principles" Not only is this incredibly wrong but also incredibly far from the truth.

This country was founded and created on the basis freedom of religion. Many people flocked to the colonies so they could escape the religious persecution they were facing in England and many other countries. I will provide evidence for this and many other things in my coming arguments.

I will now begin to show evidence to show that the founding fathers themselves did not believe in Catholic/Christian religion and some even questioned or disbelieved in the subject.

George Washington.
"Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in deism. Washington's initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on 4 November 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and remained a freemason until he died."
"After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."[1]"

Thomas Jefferson.
"Even most Christians do not consider Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god.""
"Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science. He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819, he wrote, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."[1]"

John Adams.
"Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: "I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination."[1]

My next piece shows how John Adams didn't believe and what the constitution is meant to be and how it does not support nor was it based on Catholic/Christian beliefs.
"In his, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."[1]

James Madison "Father of the Constitution"
"Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."[1]"

Benjamin Franklin
Although Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism, "My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.
". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."[1]"

The Constitution
"If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

James Madison, perhaps the greatest supporter for separation of church and State, and whom many refer to as the father of the Constitution, also held similar views which he expressed in his letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822:

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Today, if ever our government needed proof that the separation of church and State works to ensure the freedom of religion, one only need to look at the plethora of Churches, temples, and shrines that exist in the cities and towns throughout the United States. Only a secular government, divorced from religion could possibly allow such tolerant diversity.[1]"

Declaration of Independence.
"The God in the Declaration does not describe Christianity's God. It describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.[1]"

Treaty of Tripoli
Article 11
"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."[1]"

So what does this all mean? Well in simple terms it means that our government has free choices to choose to make something legal even if it violates ONE religion. This country was built on freedom and an escape from religious persecution. If the government wants to make gay marriage legal they can for many reasons. One being the church has no say in the matter of government decisions. Also with that point the government isn't forcing the church to marry these men. This just allows them to be married by the government. Many Catholics and Christians are allowing gays into their church and accepting them.

A huge example being "Abstinence outside of marriage remains a rule. But a policy change announced Monday [March 24] will now permit gay Christians in legal same-sex marriages to be employed at one of America's largest Christian charities."
"Stearns asserts that the "very narrow policy change" should be viewed by others as "symbolic not of compromise but of [Christian] unity." He even hopes it will inspire unity elsewhere among Christians.[2]"

I do understand I only talked about one point here, but I feel one it is most important and two I will discuss other measures in upcoming rounds. Thank you to whoever is following this debate and to my opponent

Works Cited
[1]-http://www.earlyamerica.com...
[2]-http://www.christianitytoday.com...
Debate Round No. 1
morrison18669

Con

morrison18669 forfeited this round.
Elijahhill97

Pro

I am disappointed as I was looking forward to a good debate. Thanks to my opponent for posting this debate and thanks to anyone viewing this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
morrison18669

Con

morrison18669 forfeited this round.
Elijahhill97

Pro

Thank you to anyone who has followed this debate or is going to vote. I would like to take this time to thank my opponent.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Elijahhill97 1 year ago
Elijahhill97
And I wish I could discuss it more but it seems irrelevant at this point.
Posted by Leo.Messi 1 year ago
Leo.Messi
hmmm...Unfortunately there is more to Americas past that has not been discussed.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by gomergcc 1 year ago
gomergcc
morrison18669Elijahhill97Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
morrison18669Elijahhill97Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture