The Instigator
MLG_Pepperoni
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Gay Marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 807 times Debate No: 93133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (66)
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MLG_Pepperoni

Pro

Why deny the right of marriage to two people that love each other? Love will always win no matter what and it is their right to get married. Denying this to a couple is a violation of freedom. Period.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

As you are in the Religious section, we shall presume that you are aware of the aspects and requirements of those who profess to be Followers of God, to be more specific, Followers of Christ, to that end we continue in this debate.

The question: Why deny the right of marriage to two people that love each other?

I have reseaarched rather lengthly the scriptures in search of the truths of God. In that search I have discovered the keys to understanding, to rightly dividing the word of truth. I have also been shown the reasons for the failings of the church which has lead to these end times, or more directly put, The apostacy of the church which by all appearances appears to be in full swing. This would indicate a signs of the times, and as such begs believers to begin looking up as ..... well, Believers know why.

What does this have to do with your question one might ask? Precisely this.... in my entire search of the scriptures, from cover to cover ... NEVER, please allow me to reinterate .... NEVER, have I come upon any scripture in it's entirety that advises, illudes to or remotely infers that we are to GIVE IN to the flesh .... have you?

In point of fact there are multiple illistrations of exactly the opposite is there not? Case in point:

Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

Matthew 10:38
and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.

Mark 8:34
Then Jesus called the crowd to Him along with His disciples, and He told them, "If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

Luke 14:27
And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

Not one of these requirements and yes their not optional as indicated .... says to give into your pleasures!

It does however say:

Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary the flesh. They are opposed to one another, so that you do not do what you want.

Galatians 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery;

Once again we are in a Religious Section so one supposes that we speak of the right of God or the right of Men? As previous scriptures have already plainly stated, as a Believer you are DEAD to self, and alive in Christ. The persons you speak of are DEAD PERIOD and Hell bound ... aren't they? Why? Easy, they are not of God and all who are not of God are of the Devil ... as plainly stated throughout scripture:

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Leviticus 18:
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine


Tell me? Those you speak out for? What part of all the scriptures you've been shown thus far do they honor? What of this:

1 Corinthians 6:
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts,

1 Timothy 4:6
By pointing out these things to the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, nourished by the words of the faith and sound instruction you have followed.

So what am I saying? I'm saying 1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

That very much means we shall judge the sin, not the sinner. What IS SIN, is sin, there can be no other verdict. That implies a guilty verdict before the eyes of God .... punishment is in accordance with the word of God, not of ours. We may pray for them, we may plead before a Holy God for His intercession for the offender, but we can NEVER support, infer support, encourage support, nor allow the sinner to BELIEVE we are in support of their choice to sin.

As such the wages of sin?



Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked person, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.


and in conclusion:

Ezekiel 18:4"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

I am of Gods, that very much infers that I HAVE no opinion whatsoever, I am Gods, to serve at His will and for His pleasure ... I am not my own. I stand in His service ... if God says it, I believe it and that's it! I shall not deviate, because I cannot deviate. Those who do, may profess to be in His service all the way to Hell. That Hell IS where they shall be .... is I think clearly stated, by God Himself!
Debate Round No. 1
MLG_Pepperoni

Pro

There are many different pros to gay marriage. Gay marriage can increase the number of children successfully adopted, and it will diminish teen suicide. Every day people are scared to come out because they are afraid of being judged but if society were more accepting, we could make it easier for them. Now for those of you concerned with RELIGIOUS REASONS, listen up. There is a separation of church and state. Religious perspective should have no place in federal or legal matters in the US. And for people offended by gay marriage, tell me how exactly is gay marriage affecting you. Gay marriage has had no impact whatsoever on heterosexual communities. Let's also remember that this is an issue of EQUAL RIGHTS. Denying marriage to two individuals who love each other is to deny them a fundamental freedom. There is no reason to deny gay marriage other than religion (still not a good reason though), but as I have already said - church stays out of state (separation of church and state).
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

There are many different pros to gay marriage. Wrong, I'm sorry, it is a sexual perversion, same as pedophilia or bestiality. People who through unholy desire to fullfil a sensual purpose for the soul purpose of self gratification is as God has already stated, an abomination. It is no more wholesome or right as the woman who by her inability to control her lust wishes to marry a tree, or the Couple who wishes polygamy to be legalized because they happen to love more than one other person, so three wish to wed.

Despite your desires society is responsible for the moral good. To teach immorality to children because people have let go all moral restraint is far from Good. It opens the door to all sexual perversions as it has shown in recent History.
No, you are wrong, because it teaches society that it is okay to fullfil your fleshly desires, to cease being responsible for self control.

I'm sorry you do not have the right to be a pervert no more than the society has the right to cheat, steal, lie, kill, rape, marry more than one, have sex out of wedlock, live together out of wedlock. Your looseness with that which is right has lead to all the unlawfulness that abounds today. Children now claim they no longer know WHAT sex they are ... because of you and people like you. That sounds hateful, I know, but it is not being said for hates sake. Typed words cannot retain the emotional flavor of a conversation. I do not hate you, nor despise you for your inability to control your lustful desires, I merely warn you of the consequences of giving in to the evil, that is being unleashed on our society. If we do not stand together to stem the tide of perversion, life around you shall continue to spiral out of control. This will have it's prescribed impact, it will usher in a time of sexual abandon, unwholesome love, love that condemns the soul to an eternity of well deserved torment and suffering.

No your sole argument is that of FLESHLY rights, it has nothing to do with what is morally right, Good or wholesome. Read your comment, see it's shallowness for what it is ...... perversion of that which was Holy and Good, you failed to mention that people who think as you, teach the young that perversion is natural, normal and good. In you is fulfilled the scripture

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Luke 11:34,35
Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your vision is clear, your whole body also is full of light. But when it is poor, your body is full of darkness. Be careful, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

Proverbs 17:15
He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Amos 5:7
For those who turn justice into wormwood And cast righteousness down to the earth."

Proverbs 21:7
The violence of the wicked will drag them away, Because they refuse to act with justice.

Hosea 10:4
They speak mere words, With worthless oaths they make covenants; And judgment sprouts like poisonous weeds in the furrows of the field.

Amo 2:3
"I will also cut off the judge from her midst And slay all her princes with him," says the LORD.

Amos 3:10
"But they do not know how to do what is right," declares the LORD, "these who hoard up violence and devastation in their citadels."

Amos 5:12
For I know your transgressions are many and your sins are great, You who distress the righteous and accept bribes And turn aside the poor in the gate.

Amos 6:2
Do horses run on rocks? Or does one plow them with oxen? Yet you have turned justice into poison And the fruit of righteousness into wormwood,

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die forb their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.

How many peoples Blood shall be required of you when you stand before the Lord ... what eternal punishment shall be yours? Have you considered this? How many souls burning in the depths of Hell shall curse you by name for your cowardice to stand and at the very least attempt to save them from the pit of Hell, as I emplore you to consider as Hell IS your ultimate end lest YOU repent and get on your face before a Holy and Righteous God. Do you know your future? Really?


http://www.saintsbooks.net......
V. The First Look Into Hell

When the gates of hell had been opened, St. Francis, with her angel, went forward. She stood on the edge of the abyss. She saw a sight so terrible that it cannot be told. She saw that the size of hell was immense. Neither in height, nor in depth, nor in length, nor in breadth, could she see any end of it. Is. xxxiv. None shall ever pass through it. She saw that hell was divided into three immense places. These three places were at a great distance from one another. There was an upper hell, and a middle hell, and a lower hell. Wisd. 17. "Night came upon them from the lowest and deepest hell." She saw that in the upper hell, the torments were very grevious. In the middle hell they were still more terrible. In the lowest hell the torments were above all understanding. When she had looked into this terrible place, her blood was frozen with fright!

VI. Fire

Now look into hell and see what she saw. Look at the floor of hell. It is red hot like red hot iron. Streams of burning pitch and sulfur run through it. Is. xxxiv The floor blazes up to the roof. Look at the walls, the enormous stones are red hot; sparks of fire are always falling down from them. Lift up your eyes to the roof of hell; it is like a sheet of blazing fire. Sometimes when you get up on a winter's morning, you see the country filled with a great thick fog. Hell is filled with a fog of fire. In some parts of the world torrents of rain come down which sweep away trees and houses. In hell, torrents, not of rain, but of fire and brimstone, are rained down. Ps. x. "The Lord shall rain down on sinners fire and brimstone." Storms of hail stones come down on the earth and break the windows in pieces. But in hell the hail stones are thunder bolts, red hot balls of fire. Job xli. God shall send thunder bolts against him. See that great whirlwind of fire sweeping across hell.

Storms of wind shall be the portion of their cup. Ps. X. Look how floods of fire roll themselves through hell like the waves of the sea. The wicked are sunk down and buried in the fiery sea of destruction and perdition. I Tim. vi. You may have seen a house on fire. But you never saw a house made of fire. Hell is a house made of fire. The fire of hell burns the devils who are spirits, for it was prepared for them. Matt. xxv. So it will burn the soul as well as the body. Take a spark out of the kitchen fire, throw it into the sea, and it will go out. Take a little spark out of hell, less than a pin-head, throw it into the ocean, it will not go out. In one moment it would dry up all the waters of the ocean, and set the whole world ablaze. Wisd. xvi. The fire, above its power, burnt in the midst of water. Set a house or town on fire. Perhaps the fire may burn for a week, or a month, but it will go out at last. But the fire of hell will never go out; it will burn forever. It is unquenchable fire. Mat. iv. St. Teresa says that the fire on the earth is only a picture of the fire of hell. Fire on earth gives light. But it is not so in hell. In hell the fire is dark.


There is in hell a sound like that of many waters. It is as if all the rivers and oceans of the world were pouring themselves with a great splash down on the floor of hell. Is it then really the sound of waters? It is. Are the rivers and oceans of the earth pouring themselves into hell? No. What is it then? It is the sound of oceans of tears running from the countless millions of eyes. They cry night and day. They cry forever and ever. They cry because the sulphurous smoke torments their eyes. They cry because they are in darkness. They cry because they have lost the beautiful heaven. They cry because the sharp fire burns them.

Little child, it is better to cry one tear of repentance now than to cry millions of tears in hell. But what is that dreadful sickening smell?


XI.The Smell Of Death
Joel ii. His stench shall ascend, and his rottenness shall go up.

There are some diseases so bad, such as cancers and ulcers, that people cannot bear to breathe the air in the house where they are. There is something worse. It is the smell of death coming from a dead body lying in the grave. The dead body of Lazarus had been in the grave only four days. Yet Martha, his sister, could not bear that it should be taken out again. But what is the smell of death in hell? St. Bonaventure says that if one single body was taken out of hell and laid on the earth, in that same moment every living creature on the earth would sicken and die. Such is the smell of death from one body in hell. What then will be the smell of death from countless millions and millions of bodies laid in hell like sheep?
Ps. How will the horrible smell of all these bodies be, after it has been getting worse and worse every moment for ten thousand years? Is. ixvi. "They shall go out and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Proverbs 11:19 He who is steadfast in righteousness will attain to life, And he who pursues evil will bring about his own death.

Isaiah 3:9 The expression of their faces bears witness against them, And they display their sin like Sodom; They do not even conceal it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves.

Ezekiel 18:4"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.


Debate Round No. 2
MLG_Pepperoni

Pro

Quoting the Bible a bunch of times isn't that convincing. The fact that the only reason you have is "because the Bible says so.." is in my opinion a weak reasoning. The Bible was written many, MANY years ago. Times have changed. As a society we have become more accepting (well most of us). To compare homosexuality to bestiality is a very disgusting statement (though you are entitled to your (stupid) opinion). With all due respect, I do not believe in a God. But I do have a religion, and that religion I chose is called "KINDNESS". While I am not sure if I will win this debate, I have learned something. I have learned that I am more accepting, understanding, and open-minded than you Follower. Oh, and homosexuality is not a "disease" or a "choice" people are born that way. Just imagine (just please try) if you were gay and you wanted to get married but you couldn't. I know that through your thick bigoted head it's hard to imagine but just try. It's like how you and I can't help it that we like girls or how people that are autistic can't help that they have autism. THEY CAN'T HELP IT. And by the way, quit using "God" as an excuse for disliking homosexuality. That is one of the dumbest reasons you could possibly give. This is the year 2016, get used to living in it and start to maybe actually support people who are struggling with their sexual identity. You and all of the other bible thumpers sure do not make it any easier for them to come out. And since your only reasoning is because of religion (hence your user name and the millions of useless Bible quotes you referenced), remember: SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Religion (church) stays out of Supreme Court rulings (state). As if you're only reasoning was bad enough, you now have no good reason to now oppose gay marriage.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

So essentially you DON'T HAVE ANY REASONING for supporting homosexual marriage whatsoever other than YOU THINK it's a question of freedom. So What about pedophiles, beastiality people ... THEY DON'T have freedoms huh? Give to some but not to others is that how it works in your little shangri-la? Some perversion is OK but not those that make YOU feel uncomfortable ... that's your idea of FREEDOM is it?

wrong! for it to BE FREEDOM everyone must have it, not just those you feel comfortable about! Hypocrite! You stand on some simblance of what you call morals, all awhile you deny Freedom to others, WHY because YOU DON'T AGREE with them? Now do you begin to see. FREEDOM, was fine before the perverts and would have been fine without them as well, But people like you refused to uphold our moral statutes, now all is LOST!

Now Children are being taught that homosexuality, lesbianism, is NORMAL, even desirable. This you did before the eyes of God. See if on the last day of your life, when you wake up in hell, how that worked for you? See if you nonbelief diminishes your torment and suffering.

Despite your stupidity, it is still not to late. You can still turn your life around. It is ony your fault as long as you choose to remain ignorant. Stand up, SAVE a soul from Hell, don't help them get there!

We must stand against ALL forms of perversions, not allow some and not others. You and people Like you opened the flood gates, those gates now refuse to close.

You allow Homosexuality, lesbianism, ... why not beastiality, pedophilia. There IS no difference and if you had any decency you WOULD know that. It's just as much THEIR right to be perverse in their morals if you can!, What's good for the goose?

Here you are:Sodomy laws in the United States, which outlawed a variety of sexual acts, were historically universal. While they often targeted sexual acts between persons of the same sex, many statutes employed definitions broad enough to outlaw certain sexual acts between persons of different sexes as well, sometimes even acts between married persons.Through the 20th century, the gradual liberalization of American sexual morals led to the elimination of sodomy laws in most states.

So you see perversion wasn't always acceptable. My question is why are you on a religious Board? You don't believe in God ... to you He's a myth, till you answer to Him of course all will. So why the challenge? Why would you flaunt perversion before a religious Board, where it is neither wanted nor appreciated. All Believers know that the wages of sin is DEATH. You cannot curtail your destiny nor those who live in sin. You support sin, you shall be accountable for their blood as scripture readily states. Have you forgotten? Ezekiel 3:18? Have you forgotten it so fast?

Definition of homosexuality

: erotic activity with another of the same sex

Definition of bestiality

: sexual relations between a human being and a lower animal

Definition of pedophilia

: sexual feelings or activities that involve children


See NO Difference whatsoever!

has NOTHING to do with Love, just sex!

Definition of perverse

: wrong or different in a way that others feel is strange or offensive


Definition of perversion

: sexual behavior that people think is not normal or natural

: something that improperly changes something good

: the process of improperly changing something that is good

Definition of unnatural

: different from how things usually are in the physical world or in nature

: different from what is normal in a way that is seen as wrong, disturbing, etc.

: not real


I grow weary of you foolishness, if you have Evidence to show just HOW homosexuality is ANY diferent than the other perversions show it or be silent! The only other acts of the same type are done ONLY in the animal kingdom .... they at LEAST don't know better!


Debate Round No. 3
66 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MLG_Pepperoni 2 weeks ago
MLG_Pepperoni
v I'll be honest, this account is half serious, half troll and maybe I took it a little far lol
Posted by AustinMe 2 months ago
AustinMe
The pro on this argument started to lose in my opinion when he decided to start throwing out insults at his competitor. The question is solely just a debate, not a reason to get mad at anyone who stands in between you and gay right equality. Some debatees get mad at the Con, and for what? Aren't YOU the one who posted the debate so people could challenge your opinion?
Posted by missmedic 4 months ago
missmedic
There are, in effect, two things: to know and to believe one knows. To know is science. To believe one knows is ignorance.

--Hippocrates
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 4 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Proverbs 17:15
He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Proverbs 24:24
He who says to the wicked, "You are righteous," Peoples will curse him, nations will abhor him;

It is still not too late for you. God can save you from what is to come. Seek Him.
Posted by migmag 4 months ago
migmag
I can't wait for the day it's ILLEGAL for churches and religions to exist, especially on this topic, they spread NOTHING but HATE
Posted by missmedic 5 months ago
missmedic
"For ages, a deadly conflict has been waged between a few brave men and women of thought and genius upon the one side, and the great ignorant religious mass on the other. This is the war between Science and Faith. The few have appealed to reason, to honor, to law, to freedom, to the known, and to happiness here in this world. The many have appealed to prejudice, to fear, to miracle, to slavery, to the unknown, and to misery hereafter. The few have said "Think" The many have said "Believe!"

--Robert Ingersoll
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 5 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Okapi
Morality is not based on feelings or emotions. Throughout life you will hear that one must never base decisions on emotions. Right and wrong is not something subject to society. There is a universal right and wrong. Love is more than lust. Sadly the majority of your generations marriages end in failure, because they responded to emotion rather than to commitment. One need only look at the statistics to know that your generation has lost its way. Why because you base everything on knowledge instead of experience.

Homosexuality is abnormal because it goes against the natural order. Marriage between a man and a woman produces offspring, and produces linage, where one may trace their ancestry to its beginning. Homosexual cannot, it produces no offspring, thereby severing linage.

it therefore is unnatural, abnormal. it cannot procreate and would end in extinction for both partners, killing the linage of both ancestors. Think of it your fathers name killed off. You see it doesn't matter that some stranger takes up your name ..... it is a genetic anomally, it is another persons offspring, not of your bloodline ...... your bloodline grows gradually smaller till, in due season, your bloodline goes extinct.

That you don't know God, doesn't nullify His existence. Mankind has the right of choice to choose for themselves, to walk rightly or to not. You may serve the world the flesh and the devil, but in so doing you reap what you sow. That is up to you. God has His time in play, and you are of age to know what is right and wrong, so you are also held accountable for the wrongs you commit.

To stand on the popular side isn't the correct side ever .... it is the side that most often leads to destruction. I can give you no advice where none is requested. Decisions based on emotions are ALWAYS WRONG! (emphasis)
Posted by missmedic 5 months ago
missmedic
It's a tie because no one cares to be preached to or read scripture....................
Posted by Okapi 5 months ago
Okapi
FOC,
That was certainly a hefty barrage of comments. I can see that you are deeply rooted in your beliefs as a Christian, which is something I can respect. However, I find that many of your points are invalid, and you seem to lack true understanding of these issues. Perhaps I am a foolish child, but I don't see how I could become wiser by placing literally everything in the hands of an old book, written by men, riddled with contradictions, and not pay the slightest attention to what those around me have to say. I never thought you were angry with me: another positive attribute you have is reliability. I can always rely on you to properly explain the Bible's stance on things. But that doesn't mean I can agree with you. And while I may be a foolish child, I find that answers come my way when I'm loud and ask hard questions. I'm terrible at shutting up.
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