The Instigator
Shtookah
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
sonikiza
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gay Marriage

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Shtookah
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/6/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,375 times Debate No: 14292
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

Shtookah

Pro

I wish to debate the issue of Gay Marriage. I am pro because I have yet to come across a good reason as to why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. I look forward to debating the topic, best of luck con.
sonikiza

Con

what in the name of god is wrong with you how can you put this topic man.
peopole man and man are not allowed to get married,if they do how are they going to have sons and daughters.
god didn't create create mem and women so that man can get married to a man he created them so man and women can worship and to get married so I am a con and gay marriage is soo not my type man.
Debate Round No. 1
Shtookah

Pro

I don't feel like there are really any definitions to be covered so I'll go right into my arguments.

*ARGUMENTS*

1. The religious argument is a flawed one. Due to the practice of secularism amongst nations, the idea that federal law should cater to religious doctrine is somewhat of a bigoted view point. The way an evangelical christian views the world should not be indoctrinated to non-evangelical Christians lifestyles by force. The way a Hindu views the world should not be indoctrinated to non-Hindu's lifestyles. The way a Jewish person views the world should not be indoctrinated to non-Jewish people's lifestyles. So on and so forth..

2. There simply would not be any harms out of letting homosexuals marry.. Virtually none.. Health, education, wealth, you name it, would really not be impacted negative or positively from the legalization of gay marriage. It really just comes down to whether you view homosexuals as lesser beings or not. I of course do not and feel great opposition to those who believe in discriminating and ostracizing minorities for the sake of merely disapproving of their lifestyles.

3. Many "compassionate conservatives" will say that civil unions are a good alternative to marriage for homosexuals because of its great "controversy". I find this proposal to ridiculous and I will explain why.. Hypothetically speaking, lets say I formed a religion known as the "shtookah" religion and I gained over 2 billion followers. In addition my followers believe that the word of me (their god) is final. Lets say one day I decided that people with name Roy can not get married. I tell my followers that it is a sin, its despicable ect ect. As a non-shtookah follower you would instantly protest and feel that what I decreed was absolutely stupid and should certainly not apply to those whom are not followers of the "shtookah" religion. Do you see the similarity here?

*MY REBUTTAL*

Con makes the generalization that gays are not allowed to get married virtually anywhere. This is simply not true. There are quite a few countries that have legalized gay marriage, such as: Canada, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Iceland and even South Africa. Fallowing cons generalization, he also claims: "if they do how are they going to have sons and daughters.". Suggesting that everyone who decides to get married plan on having children, which I'm afraid is not the case. Fallowing that claim, con ends with: "god didn't create create mem and women so that man can get married to a man he created them so man and women can worship and to get married so I am a con and gay marriage is soo not my type man." I have already explained how the religious argument is a flawed one and really do not feel I need to repeat myself. Something I really don't understand what con said about g-d creating a man and a women to worship him, which implies gay people can't worship..?

Sources:
[1] http://www.religioustolerance.org...
[2] http://iowaindependent.com...
[R] http://lesbianlife.about.com...
sonikiza

Con

yeah everyone is meant to have a child and if your gay how are you going to have a child. also if you how did you ome to this would pro huh. didn't your parents brought by having sex and than you were born. see my point is that if no-one never ever wanted to have a baby your family wouldn't bein this and even me myself I wouldn't be in this wolrd and evry single human would be wiped out because nobody wanted to have a son or a daughter see having gay marriage it aint good and it aint worth it. also in religion it says about it here:

What is forbidden in Islam- Homosexuality or practicing Homosexuality?

The common concept for Muslim homosexuals is to commit suicide since they can't be punished for being homosexuals in a non-Islamic state, but two wrongs don't make one right. While homosexuality is wrong, it doesn't justify suicide under any conditions or circumstances. Please know that if you ever commit suicide, you would have seriously misunderstood Islam and its spirit. If you were ever involved in sexual homosexual acts in the past, you should truly and sincerely repent to Allah, The Merciful, The Gracious, and pledge to Him never to get involved in any homosexual acts anymore. Please note that there is a difference to actually being involved in a homosexual act -which is a sin - from having sexual feelings that you try to control, that you don't express in public, which is not sinful if you try to control them. If medical or psychological counseling helps, then get it, but know that Allah is The Curer, and the Qur'an is your best companion. Give charity, pray, make dua', and Allah will not leave you alone. You have got to believe in the infinite amount of Mercy Allah provides to His servants, and you should also realize that He forgives, if He wishes, all types of sins, except the sin of disbelieving in Him.

What is sinful in homosexuality is the actual sexual act between the couple of a similar sex. if you transform your desires into a struggle and a challenge to overcome it and not physically commit it, then insha'Allah, you will get the reward for it.

Don't lose hope! Fear Allah (S.W.T), ask Him for help earnestly, never give up, and do something to get rid of even the idea of homosexuality. Try to avoid all of the circumstances that trigger your homosexual feelings: don't get alone with an attractive man, always be in the company of others, don't get involved in deep / personal discussions with any person that you may think will trigger your homosexual feeling. Stay away from any other people who have similar feelings. Don't even think in such an idea of this subject, keep yourself busy in different useful thing, and stay away of anything that remind you of homosexuality. Keep a POSITIVE thinking in your mind and keep saying to yourself that you can do something about it. Don't ever say I can't. Remember with every step you are taking toward getting rid of this habit you are getting help and reward from Allah (S.W.T) and you are annoying the shaytan.

Also for many Homosexual Muslims the concept of getting married is unappealing. Having this feeling should not prevent you from considering to get married in the future. You will discover that marriage is more than simply fulfilling your sexual needs... Your wife will insha'Allah bring you peace, tranquility, joy, security, and many other feelings that every human being needs, irrelevant of their "sexual partners". Also, while Muslims are not allowed to lie, you should keep this feeling to yourself and not share it with her or your parents for many reasons... Be patient and make it a lifelong struggle for yourself... You will see how rewarding it is at the end... Remember, there is in this world many compulsive gamblers, alcoholics, adulterers, thieves, but many of them control it and refrain from doing it... If they aren't Muslims and have the will to do it, you are a Muslim and you have Allah on your side when you seek His Help. There is no way you will fail insha'Allah... it means that if god wills.



Debate Round No. 2
Shtookah

Pro

(Quick Rebuttal)
There are plenty of reasons why someone would choose not to have children. A man and a women CAN have a child but thats still not a matter of purpose in life.. If you feel that it's the very purpose in life to get married and have kids than that's YOUR view. However I'm afraid that your not the only one on this planet. If you think that homosexuality is a sin and that's the word of g-d than congratulations.. However, I'm afraid that there are others who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. There are people who don't believe in your g-d for that matter. It's called coexistence and acceptance, you can inform masses and your peers about factual arguments that revolve around critical thinking but you cant expect everyone to believe in what your saying much less indoctrinate themselves with religious dogma..

That being said..

"Also for many Homosexual Muslims the concept of getting married is unappealing. Having this feeling should not prevent you from considering to get married in the future. You will discover that marriage is more than simply fulfilling your sexual needs... Your wife will insha'Allah bring you peace, tranquility, joy, security, and many other feelings that every human being needs, irrelevant of their "sexual partners". Also, while Muslims are not allowed to lie, you should keep this feeling to yourself and not share it with her or your parents for many reasons... Be patient and make it a lifelong struggle for yourself... You will see how rewarding it is at the end... Remember, there is in this world many compulsive gamblers, alcoholics, adulterers, thieves, but many of them control it and refrain from doing it... If they aren't Muslims and have the will to do it, you are a Muslim and you have Allah on your side when you seek His Help. There is no way you will fail insha'Allah... it means that if god wills."

Muslims can't lie?! Fear Allah, really?!

I really don't wish this debate to be transformed into a religious debate.. Pointless..

Can we please get back to perhaps a more non-religious, reasonable argument? Or is there none? Sorry for the bashing but I feel I made it quite clear how the religious argument is a flawed one enough..

*Arguments extended* If con wishes to attack them..



sonikiza

Con


ohh yeah didn't you know that being gay is actually helpless and it is part of the religious stuff and as I said if they're were not peeps in this worlds you wouldn't be here and those peeps who don't wish to have children. well it's their bussiness.

The issue of homosexual behavior has had a lot of publicity of late. Homosexuals say that the slaves have been freed and women have been liberated, so gay rights are long overdue. Society does seem to be moving in that direction. Many homosexuals are “coming out” and openly declaring their homosexuality. In many parts of the western world, homosexual couples receive the same recognition as heterosexual couples with regard to social security benefits. Some church leaders are giving their blessing to homosexual relationships, homosexual church members and even homosexual ministers.
here is a story for you..
: I feel so sad everytime I hear these sorts of questions and its upsetting how terrible religion is. Its the root cuase of all evil and I truely believe that. How bad is that- saying people mustn't be attracted to or have sex with the same gender. Homosexuals and bsexuals cant help being the way they are- its in you from the second your born and thats been prooved. thers nothing you can do to deny it. Honestly the ony way for you to ever feel as if what you're doing is ok is to stop readin the bible love. If you're gay and are still a christiian you're going to feel like you've sinned all the time. Why live a life like that. Free yourself and be who you want to be, dont listen to some book or some persons words. You cant help it so just enjoy it and love yourself for who you are.. here it says that it's okay to be gay right or wrong..
that means it's like god created men and women for nothing but to be gay and lesbian no he created all of for one purpose to worship him alone and gay stuff does have something to say about religion and it aint cool. good luck if your winning and IDC.

Debate Round No. 3
Shtookah

Pro


"that means it's like god created men and women for nothing but to be gay and lesbian"

HOW?!

In what way, shape, or form does your previous story (that isn't even cited..) conclude that? That story was about homosexuallity, in a sense that if your gay, its who you are. You were born that way, and you shouldn't run away from who you are just because you were brought up in a home that was "ultra-christian".

Although the gay gene remains inconclusive, it is almost apperant that homosexuality is somthing one is born with.

- Con has conceded the debate, has not attacked any of my arguments what so ever and has yet to make a critical rebuttal.
- Arguments extended

Gay Gene Sources:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.time.com...
http://www.newscientist.com...
http://www.livescience.com...
sonikiza

Con

sonikiza forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by sonikiza 3 years ago
sonikiza
hey let me tell you's somethin he started saying that being gay is cool right. well if he thinks it's okay try being gay and tell me if it's okay.
Posted by sonikiza 3 years ago
sonikiza
man i missed the last round that was so not coooool
Posted by nhq 3 years ago
nhq
Pretty sure Con was trolling.
Posted by gavin.ogden 3 years ago
gavin.ogden
Con, this may be one of the worst arguments against gay marraige I've ever seen, and they all suck. Also, proper grammar/spelling would serve you well.
Posted by dinokiller 3 years ago
dinokiller
Raging arguments. :P
Posted by sonikiza 3 years ago
sonikiza
thank you very much
Posted by adealornodeal 3 years ago
adealornodeal
Lol con, nice.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Sawawah 3 years ago
Sawawah
ShtookahsonikizaTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by gavin.ogden 3 years ago
gavin.ogden
ShtookahsonikizaTied
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Total points awarded:70