The Instigator
Curtispov11
Pro (for)
Winning
51 Points
The Contender
moderate84
Con (against)
Losing
27 Points

Gay Marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,088 times Debate No: 619
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (26)

 

Curtispov11

Pro

I think that homosexuals should have just as many rights as everyone else in this country, and that includes marriage.
moderate84

Con

To start my points I will go over marriage it ‘self then why I think gay marriage is a larger debate then just if gay people should be allowed to get married.
*Marriage is defined as between a man, and women also religion has a lot to do with marriage. This is why the debate will keep going the way it goes.

*Culture is not ready for two people that are gay to be standing in front of a preacher conferring those two people. I include myself as one of these people and have no problem saying so. Is it wrong of me to think this way? To me no to others yes and I respect the view of people that would disagree.

*Will things change maybe but right now they will not because neither major party would support gay marriage. The majority of moderate democrats will do is allow for civil unions and republican's flat out don't support civil unions.
Debate Round No. 1
Curtispov11

Pro

you say that marriage has a lot to do with religion, and by religion i know that you are speaking of the bible and that it states that marriage should be between a man and a woman. It is true that most Americans are either christians or follow the bible in some way, shape, or form, but you have to remember that there is a separation of church and state in our country (meaning that religion should not affect the laws and vice versa). So even though it may not be right according to the bible that two men or two women get married, that should not have any effect on whether the country should legalize it or illegalize it. I'm not saying that it is wrong if you believe 2 dudes shouldn't married, but that shouldn't be the reason that it is illegal.

You say that culture is not ready for homosexual marriage, but honestly, how big of a difference is it really going to make? There still are going to be gay couples even if they cannot marry.

To add to this, i think that it is wrong for our country to single out a group of people and take away some rights just because they think differently. In my opinion, gay marriage is exercising freedom of expression, and for a government to take away that freedom to any extent is fascist.

tell me what you think
-curtis
moderate84

Con

One thing I wanted to mention that I forgot to before. For people seeing this debate I am not homophobic and have friends who are gay or lesbian. My opinion and politics doesn't affect my friendship with others nor would I let it. Now on to my points:

* I completely understand the separation of church and state however when it comes to something like marriage I believe you can't separate them. Religion is a part of marriage because you are joining a man and a woman before a higher power/ along with family.

* When I talk about culture and this is why this debates gets into political parties is because both democrats and republicans don't support gay marriage with the exception of kusinich (think that is how you spell him). Most Americans don't support due to religion or what they think is wrong due to other reasons. I hope that this is an okay response again the debate has more to do with opinion, the role of religion in marriage, what culture deems norm, and not as much about stats and facts.
Debate Round No. 2
Curtispov11

Pro

i disagree with you when you say that when it comes to something like marriage you believe you can't separate them. Even though marriage technically is derived from religion, people still get married without using the religious connotation of the word "marriage". therefore, the word "marriage" has changed its meaning over time. so if you say that homosexuals cannot get married because of the religious aspect, wouldn't that mean that atheists or agnostics or muslims or whoever doesn't follow the bible could not get married either?

when you say that when the debate has to do more with opinion than it does with religion, I think you are absolutely right. It has to do with what people see and what they want to see in society and as becoming the society's norm. But even though a lot of people disagree with gay marriage, that doesn't mean that it should be outlawed. Lots of people disagree with smoking cigarettes, but that doesn't mean it should be outlawed. The fact is that being with who you want to be with is a right that no authority or government or God should be allowed to take away.
moderate84

Con

In terms of the rights of muslims, atheists and agnostics that is still a man and women getting married which even if it is not religious it still is the tradition of a man and women. I know that still goes back to the argument of culture and norms but at this point that is where the debate will go back to each time. I respect your opinion and think you have a valid point however I think marriage is a man and women and civil unions I would support. Thank you for a good debate and let's see how the votes turn out.

In terms of the smoking we will see how long it is before we can't smoke in the streets being as we can't in some bar's lounges, and restaurants.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lydie 8 years ago
Lydie
Stop using the definition of marraige between a man and a woman as an argument! Definitions change! Language is always changing. Last time I checked ¨sick¨in the dictionary meant, ill or enferm. Now, it can mean cool...

Sanctity of Marriage dosn´t work either.

How many divorces do we have in our country?? i think its more common to have divorced parents than to have ones that are still together. Its not THAT holy...most peoples vows don´t last...

Ugh!
Posted by Curtispov11 8 years ago
Curtispov11
no problem...

by the way im kinda new to this site...does anyone know how(if you can) add like friends and stuff?

if you can't then nevermind
Posted by moderate84 8 years ago
moderate84
I didn't know bout the financial aspect I apologize for that. Thank for a good debate look forward to future debates.
Posted by Curtispov11 8 years ago
Curtispov11
actually they don't get the same financial benefits of marriage...

but anyways thanks for the good debate
and for the record if i was disrespectful to your personal views in any way i apologize for it was not my intention
Posted by moderate84 8 years ago
moderate84
One thing I forgot to mention is that to me to government is not necessarily taking away that someone whom the person wants to be with. You are still allowed to date who you want, buy a house, and get the financial benefits of marriage. The only difference is that marriage and the family is protected.
Posted by griffinisright 8 years ago
griffinisright
Good argument moderate84! Go Fred 08!
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
Just as a side note. Marriages existed outside the church for a long time. Though, problems kept arising where one person would say they were married and another person would say they weren't. The church stepped in to codify the institution not as a religious invention but rather to keep records of which individuals were established semi-monogamous partners.

The church codified marriage to fix some problems caused by the informal nature of marriages. It isn't a religious institution initially. And certainly religion and tradition are complete crap when it comes to defending something. If the only argument you have for something is an argument from tradition or a religious argument, that is to say that you have no good arguments for it.
Posted by Curtispov11 8 years ago
Curtispov11
rockytopsteph...the separation of church and state is instill in our system of government because not all Americans follow the bible...personally, i don't, and i know a lot of people who don't either. its is unfair to make laws that exclude a certain number of people just because of their personal beliefs
Posted by mrumno 8 years ago
mrumno
I don't really know what to think. The point of seperation of church and state is a good point. But being an athiest this kinda swayed my opinion. I really don't care if Denmark and Spain have legalized gay marriage why not the US?
Posted by rockytopsteph 8 years ago
rockytopsteph
Nietzsche: The term "sanctity of marriage" to me, is simply honoring the contract of marriage that God set up from the very beginning. To me, sactity equals holy. A marriage is a sacred thing, not to be taken lightly. God intended for marriage to be only between a man and a woman, as it says so in the Bible. He intended for it to be holy, and without blemish. The marriage of a man and a woman basically is when two people become one, with God's help. So to have a man and a man, or a woman and a woman in marriage, would be violating that sanctity or holiness...
26 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Sludge 8 years ago
Sludge
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