The Instigator
KingofHarlem
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
hillkill65
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Gay "Safe Sex" A Penicious Lie

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
hillkill65
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/15/2014 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,436 times Debate No: 52548
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (2)

 

KingofHarlem

Pro

There is no safe way to have male-to-male anal sex. Nothing else explains why gay males are 75% of all new HIV cases. Obviously, they're engaging in a behavior that causes them contract the virus.

Condoms slip off, burst, are forgotten, not wanted, told they're being used when they aren't. The bottom line is "safe sex" although a great concept, is not working.

And then there's all the other health hazards associated with male-to-male anal sex. The anal/rectum substructure were not designed for the heavy pounding the vagina gets. After frequent anal sex the anus becomes dysfunctional; it can no longer sustain its fecal seal. The gay community doesn't want you to know how many young gay men wear diapers.

None of this is mentioned when gay speakers go to our schools and tell children how wonderful the homosexul experience is. The border-line boy is not told chances are he'll have HIV before he reaches 30 and will be wearing diapers before he's 25.
hillkill65

Con

Contrary to what my contender has said there are ways for which gays have safe sex. From what I am seeing my contender is making many assumptions and stereotypes. If you could begin citing sources which back your claims that could add maybe a little more evidence.

You are making it seem as if safe sex just does not apply to the gay community which is just plain wrong not only gays get STD's. "Half of all sexually active people will get an STD by age 25" that includes straight, bisexual, and gays. Ways to prevent the possible spread of HIV and other STDs are to "Get to know someone before having sex with them and talk honestly about STDs and getting tested"before you have sex" also "Use a condom correctly and use one every time you have sex." Condom breaks or lies about condoms can happen to everyone who is sexually active.

There are 6 major ways gay men can avoid getting STDs and HIV. "Condoms and Lubricant, Negotiated Safety, Strategic Positioning, Withdrawing, Serosorting, and Undetectable Viral Loads." The stats do show that gay men do have a much higher HIV percentage but with the help of education such as this and actually carrying out these practices could lower that percentage greatly.

Also my Contenders statistic that 75% of gay men is more than inaccurate "MSM accounted for 52% of all people living with HIV infection in 2009, the most recent year these data are available(http://www.cdc.gov...)" Now I am not saying those number are good by any means but it shows gays shouldn't be discriminated because of it.

For the argument that all gay men have to wear diapers or the assumption that most have to is ridiculous. I am sure some do for ease or other reasons of their own, but if they are wearing a diaper because that is there only option, then they are lacking crucial information. Gay men or anyone conceding in anal sex have many ways to help fix that issue such as; Solesta, Secca, Interstim, and kegel exercises.

With that being said I believe you and many others should educate yourself before making assumptions and stereotypes on gays. Thank you.
(http://www.cdc.gov...)
(http://www.gmhsa.org.au...)
(http://www.cdc.gov...)
(http://health.clevelandclinic.org...)
Debate Round No. 1
KingofHarlem

Pro

According to the CDC, 72.1% of all new HIV infections among youths were attributed to male-to-male sexual contact:
http://www.cdc.gov...
(see second paragraph under "Results."

And successfully arguing that there are safe ways to engage in male-to-male anal sex is not evidence this sex is safe -- no more than wearing a bullet-proof vest makes being shot at safe.

Unprotected anal sex can kill you, 400,000 gay males are dead because they engaged in it, and about a million more are living with HIV because of it. If this isn't evidence male-to-male anal sex is morbidly unhealthy, I don't know what is.

Honestly, sir, what do you think you accomplish by saying male-to-male anal sex is safe when it so clearly isn't?


hillkill65

Con

I did not see the new HIV part in your original argument. I apologize for that. If the facts show that by having safe anal sex your chances of contracting HIV is extremely lowered than how does that prove it is not safe? if i get shot in the bullet proof vest i have a great chance of living. Otherwise why would they create such a thing if it did not do its job? the same goes for Safe anal sex and preparation for anal sex. it doesnt make it 100% safe but it sure makes it a hell of a lot safer compared to nothing.

As for your statement that "400,000 gay males are dead because they engaged in it" I cannot find any information which supports that on a global scale but it is probable since HIV has been around for a little more than 100 years(http://www.nytimes.com...) and in the United States "Since the epidemic began, an estimated 302,148 MSM with an AIDS diagnosis have died" now although those numbers are huge thats over a 100 year period.

Again I can find no facts that supports that 1 million gay men are living with HIV on a global scale but it is highly probable considering the fact that "As of 2008, 33.4 million people were living with HIV/AIDS worldwide.(http://greaterthanone.org...)" So on a ratio proportion thats 1 million gay men /33 million people thats a pretty good statistic and maybe should push you to look at others then just gays. As for on a U.S. scale "At the end of 2010, of the estimated 872,990 persons living with an HIV diagnosis, 440,408 (50%) were MSM.(http://www.cdc.gov...)"

Many of your accusations were not backed up by facts nor were they statistically accurate. I urge you sir to expand your view on the dangers of anal sex for men past gays and look at others to. You are trying to take a stab at gays when yes they are the majority who are affected in the U.S., but maybe there are other reasons of which you should educate yourself on before assuming every time they have sex with each other they are automatically screwed.
Debate Round No. 2
KingofHarlem

Pro

In his last response, my opponent gave us this amazing statement:

======================================================================
" If the facts show that by having safe anal sex your chances of contracting HIV is extremely lowered than how does that prove it is not safe?"

======================================================================

Of course a thing is either safe or it isn't. My opponent wants us to believe because condoms reduce the risk of HIV, male-to-male anal sex is safe. Ridiculous, of course, but such is the lopsided thinking we get from the gay community on almost every issue they're challanged on.

"Since a parachute makes jumping off the Empire State Building safe, jumping off the Empire State building is safe."

The problem of course is that gay activists are in our schools preaching this same gospel of ignorance. They're telling young boys male-to-male anal sex is safe. Nothing else expains why young males are 72.% of all new HIV cases -- they've been told anal sex is safe and believe it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org...





hillkill65

Con

Unfortunately my contender has admitted to being a Homophobe how can you take serious information about something that a person hates or fears? My contender is confusing what I am saying by safe anal sex. There are steps before and during safe sex which I mentioned in my previous argument "Condoms and Lubricant, Negotiated Safety, Strategic Positioning, Withdrawing, Serosorting, and Undetectable Viral Loads." I urge you sir to educate yourself on these ways to have safe anal sex. Another way for gays to have safe anal sex is by waiting with their partner and both being tested before they have sex and to find a partner without HIV.

If the gay community takes the time to do all these they can have what i believe to be safe sex. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
KingofHarlem

Pro

My opponent is from the Philip Seymour Hoffman School of denial:

"Shooting up heroin doesn't always result in an overdose, therefore, shooting up heroin is safe."

Let's explore my opponent's motivation:

Male-to-male anal sex is the sine qua non of male homosexuality. It is to male homosexuality what vaginal-penal sex is to heterosexuality. In other words, the notion that male-to-male anal sex is unsafe is evidence male homosexuality is a behavior no one should be engaging in.

When people go into denial they rationalize. Hoffman was a brilliant young actor. He knew putting a needle in his arm could kill him. He rationalized just like my opponent is doing and paid for this rationalization with his life.

But as far as I know, Hoffman never went into the schools and tell children shooting up heroin was safe. He never sank to that low and despicable level. The reason why young gay men are 72.% of all new HIV cases is because people like my opponent are in the schools teaching young boys anal sex is safe if "Condoms and Lubricant, Negotiated Safety, Strategic Positioning, Withdrawing, Serosorting, and Undetectable Viral Loads."

"Serosorting..." ?

What the hell is a kid supposed to make of that?

People like my opponent call that "safe-sex" education, but the message of real safe sex education is "anal sex can kill you -- don't do it!"

We've had 40 years of my opponent's chicanery, 40 years of his dishonest and misleading safe-sex education and gay men are still dropping like flies. My opponent will argue this is because the message has not got out. I argue it's my opponent's message that's killing kids.

Remember that Jeff Goldberg scene from Jurassic Park where he explains "Chaos Theory" then links it to animal reproduction? Species find a way, he cautions. No matter what barriers are placed in their way the dinosaurs will find a way to reproduce the types they're not supposed to.

"The virus finds a way" -- isn't that the lesson we've learned from 40 years of battling it? That no matter what precautions we take -- no matter how much Serosorting we do -- anal sex continues to be the main vector?

"Condoms and Lubricant, Negotiated Safety, Strategic Positioning, Withdrawing, Serosorting, and Undetectable Viral Loads."

Does my opponent really expect kids to walk around with this check list and check it off before engaging in anal sex? It will never happen -- we've got 40 years of CDC stats to show it isn't happening.

Serosorting is complete BS, not "safe sex" education. People like my opponent need to admit it -- until they do, young men will continue dying from male-to-male anal sex.

Finally, I put this question to my opponent: what evidence must be presented to you to convince you male-to-male sex is a morbidly unsafe behavior?

hillkill65

Con

hillkill65 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KingofHarlem 3 years ago
KingofHarlem
Use your brain...

A man and a woman having anal sex is far less riskier. There are many reasons for this, the first being neither is homosexual. Another reason is only one person is taking it up the poop shoot.

Use your brain...
Posted by TheDaftHatter 3 years ago
TheDaftHatter
Wow bro I just...wow... you might not BE a homophobe BUT you still are saying a man and woman engaging in anal sex is safer than two males having anal sex... uh....? It's still the same concept of the same kind of sexual organ going into the same place only on a different body. So unless you can post non religious articles showing scientific proof that male on female anal sex is safer than male on male then sir you have no argument.
Posted by RossM 3 years ago
RossM
I urge everyone on here to report this guy for hate content. This site is about debating, not abusing those who my opponent generalises.
Posted by RossM 3 years ago
RossM
You call everyone else a bully KingofHarlem, and yet you incite hate and discrimination towards the LGBT community. Do you know the definition of "Hypocrisy"?
Posted by KingofHarlem 3 years ago
KingofHarlem
And to the other guy, this is the reason why I say everything gays touch turns to mud.

A person says something you disagree with, and there you go with your "He's a homophobe!" crap. You people don't judge these debates on their merits. You line up to vote for the debater you think is for gay "equality." What is gay equality? Anything decide it is.

You're bullies. You intimate people. You let them know up front if they don't toe the line, they're nothing but homophobes themselves.

You've destroyed this forum with antics like that.
Posted by KingofHarlem 3 years ago
KingofHarlem
Do you have a point, fella?
Posted by hillkill65 3 years ago
hillkill65
how about you purchase a dictionary and look up the word which you call yourself. homophobe
Web definitions
a person who hates or fears homosexual people
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
Posted by KingofHarlem 3 years ago
KingofHarlem
Purchase a dictionary and learn what "phobe" means.
Posted by RossM 3 years ago
RossM
For some reason KingofHarlem, you think that's a good thing. Anyway, if you don't like the homosexual community, stop debating about them. It always astounds me how much these self proclaimed "homophobes" hate homosexuals, and yet they never shut up about them!
Posted by KingofHarlem 3 years ago
KingofHarlem
I am a homophobe.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Dan4reason 3 years ago
Dan4reason
KingofHarlemhillkill65Tied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: This was a rather interesting debate. Pro kept on claiming that gay safe sex is not safe because of all the gay people infected with HIV. Con pointed out that if gay people were more educated about safe sex, the HIV rate would go down. I tend to agree with Con. Pro never addressed Con's rebuttal convincingly. Pro kept on repeating inaccurate statistics that were refuted by Con. Pro did not site his sources. While Con did forfeit the last round, this can be forgiven by the way he took apart Pro's arguments.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
KingofHarlemhillkill65Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: I think both sides were using a different definition of safe. It would do pro a lot of good to provide definitions early so semantics are easier to get by. No score for arguments. Conduct to pro for con trying to dismiss hi arguments by calling him a homophobe.