The Instigator
Mikegj1077
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
oboeman
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points

Gay marraige

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,817 times Debate No: 1939
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (28)
Votes (15)

 

Mikegj1077

Con

"Homosexuality is an accepted lifestyle nowadays with a proven biological causation. - Denying..."

Your statement is false. There are no credible scientific studies that conclude homosexuality is either inherited or springs from one's genetics. If you contend that there are, please cite the study. Secondly, you state that homosexuality is an "accepted lifestyle." By whom? Even in one of the most liberal states in the country, Massachusetts, a voter referendum tallied 70-percent against same sex marriage. The gay marriage law came about by the court, not from a popular vote.
oboeman

Pro

Greetings,

To begin, many animals often engage in homosexual activities, and I have added two links that may satisfy your inquiries.
http://www.foxnews.com...
http://www.news-medical.net...

Also, you may find the below sites of interest as well.
http://www.cnn.com...
http://news.bbc.co.uk...
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu...

The above sources ought to make the biological causation part of the statement true.

In addition, homosexual relationships are indeed an accepted lifestyle at the present time. Why would anyone oppose such relations when they are by no means affected by the decisions of two consenting adults in a committing relationship?

"A voter referendum tallied 70-percent against same sex marriage."
However, why does the ignorance of 70-percent of a voter referendum cause such relations to be unacceptable? Just because a particular number of people consider homosexual relations unacceptable, it does not mean that they are an unacceptable lifestyle.
Debate Round No. 1
Mikegj1077

Con

"The above sources ought to make the biological causation part of the statement true."

Give me a break…

"In addition, homosexual relationships are indeed an accepted lifestyle at the present time."

As I asked you before, accepted by whom? A minority of kooks and weirdoes?

"…why does the ignorance of 70-percent of a voter referendum cause such relations to be unacceptable?"

Because most people are more intelligent than you give them credit for.

"Why would anyone oppose such relations when they are by no means affected by the decisions of two consenting adults in a committing relationship?"

AIDS come to mind? Dysfunctional households are much higher? Child adoption? That's child abuse in my opinion.
oboeman

Pro

oboeman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Mikegj1077

Con

I'll give you more time. I know you're probably hurt and shocked over the realization that most people don't feel the way you do on social issues (thankfully).
oboeman

Pro

First of all, I apologize for not posting my previous argument; I have been quite busy over the past week. As there is one less argument round between us as expected, if you would like to, you can post another argument in the comment space below.

"Give me a break…"

If you have indeed read my sources, then "give me a break" does not answer if they are indeed valid to you. I hereby ask if they are valid. If not, why?

Perhaps the more appropriate question would be to ask: Why would anyone NOT accept homosexual relations?

But to answer your question more explicitly, such relations are accepted by society as a whole. Man-kind has gotten past its fears of people that are different. But you seem to still say that these compassionate people are still kooks and weirdoes. Why? Such homosexual relations are not affecting you whatsoever, so why should they not be accepted by society?

Should we also have a voting referendum for whether people should drink skim milk or low fat milk?? Of course not, as this is totally unreasonable, as what milk people drink by no means affects fellow citizens. The same applies to having a voting referendum for gay marriage; it by no means affects fellow citizens.

"Because most people are more intelligent than you give them credit for."

Are you suggesting that by being against homosexual relations is an intelligent decision?? This implies that homosexual relations are somehow malevolent, therefore the intellect of citizens derives this. If so, in order for you to win this point, you must define how homosexual relations are malevolent and bad.

"AIDS come to mind? Dysfunctional households are much higher? Child adoption? That's child abuse in my opinion."

The transmission of HIV from person to person does not only occur in homosexual relations. It may occur in heterosexual relations as well. If you are suggesting that, as this could potentially harm society, then you are also suggesting that we should ban all sexual relations with anyone and everyone, as there is a "potential" that a transmission of HIV may occur.

As for dysfunctional households, I ask for a source to back that up. Anyways, I am sure that most homosexual relations, just like most heterosexual relations, coexist quite functionally within households. But even so, there may be dysfunctional households in all relationships. If you are suggesting that, as this could potentially harm society, then you are also suggesting that we should ban all households, as there is a "potential" for it to become dysfunctional at any given time.

As for child adoption, that is another issue in itself. But by saying you are against child adoption, then you are obviously also against child adoption in heterosexual relations, correct??

I do believe I have supplied valid rebuttals against each of your arguments. I ask that you consider each of my points, and if you have any further rebuttal, please post it in the comment space, and I will rebut it further.
Debate Round No. 3
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DrAlexander 8 years ago
DrAlexander
justifing should be justify*
(25 characters)
Posted by DrAlexander 8 years ago
DrAlexander
It is a good thing that you are voicing your opinion. I do not believe in gay marriage because of my religious beliefs, but on the other hand, I learn how to accept people for who they.

But I have two questions. Why does it matter what they do, like how does it affect you? My second question is why is it wrong for homosexuals to be on television, don't they have the same rights as everyone else?

Lack of understanding pushes our world into a state of anamosity. You are correct in some ways, but remember moral relativism, what you consider immoral, others may consider perfectly fine, but, the difference in morals does not justifying you judging there ways, leave the judging for the Lord.

Thank you for responding, God Bless,

-Alexander
Posted by Mikegj1077 8 years ago
Mikegj1077
I don't think I need to use your definition of "impolite" to limit the way I frame my argument. Only a fool would do that. Gay people have "pushed" their way onto daytime TV, where youths can watch you and others attempt to normalize a dysfunctional lifestyle. We intend to push back.
Posted by DrAlexander 8 years ago
DrAlexander
Who is forcing their gay beliefs on you?

It appears to me, he is justifying and defending his beliefs.

You, on the otherhand, appear to be pushing your beliefs on him and saying that he is an evil sinner, people take that as an insult.

You may not notice this, you probably do this with the best intentions, but it is coming accross as impolite. Please be careful when you criticize and justify it with the bible, people will consider this as you judging them, thus they will consider you a hypocrite.

Thanks.

-Alexander
Posted by Mikegj1077 8 years ago
Mikegj1077
I can't "force" my Christen beliefs on others, but gay people can force their beliefs on me? Double standard.
Posted by DrAlexander 8 years ago
DrAlexander
Both of you guys are wrong, both of you are too inclined upon either your sexual or your religious beliefs.

Everyone gets tired of gays being so proud and thinking they should get special treatment, and everyone gets tired of conservative Christians whom force their religious views.

Please stop being bias, hear the other side, both of you are partially correct, learn from each other.

-Alexander
Posted by rwebberc 9 years ago
rwebberc
Your ignorance is astounding, Mike. You can't use your religion to justify everything you say. That's what is called anti-intellectualism: instead of actually taking the time to know anything about the topic, you simply make an argument from authority about God. Guess what, Mike? Not everyone thinks like you do, people have different values and norms, THAT is moral relativism. Stop trying to push your beliefs on other people and maybe people will actually listen to what you have to say.
Posted by Mikegj1077 9 years ago
Mikegj1077
"you are so clueless."
Clue me in, JonJon. I am not sensitive to the nuances you think would change my thinking. "Look at YOUR tone in this debate. Now like the typical, spirtually challenged christer, you're trying to take the high ground…"
I stand on the high ground with God. Where do you stand, JonJon? On your knees, performing a sinful act? Repent.
"Can you attempt a little critical thinking here? There's a big world outside the babble."
My thoughts are profound. God is my teacher.
"Who would ever choose to be gay when we have to deal with bigots like yourself, day in day out? Believe me, it's not a convenience. But I do know that homosexuality is hardwired. Pure and simple."
Homosexuals exist in their on groups, isolated and away from normal, red-blooded Americans. You are not harassed, as you say. You come out of your shell periodically to shout at me, and God. You anger over your own sexual frustrations and turn your anger at me and at God. Turn to God for solace and guidance. I offer you positive advice, and all you do is spit on me. God loves both of us. Repent.
"And all this judging your doing... "
I understand why your kind don't want to be judged. In order to be homosexual in a moral society and before God you have to demand not to be judged. That is called moral relativism. Don't judge me. For I am immoral and want to continue with my sin. Well, God judges. And you better change your ways. Repent now.
"Do YOU have a direct phone to god?"
I do. I talk to God, and He talks back to me. He will talk to you soon, if you accept Him. Don't turn him away. Get off your knees and repent. Take God into your life and get away from the vermin and intemperance.
"Gay is not a choice…"
It is. And accepting God is a choice too. Choose God, not your sinful ways.
"I've been fortunate enough to sit with the Tich nat Hahn, the Dali Lama and other amazing spiritual beings…"
God is the ultimate spiritual and moral leader. "you are s
Posted by JonJon 9 years ago
JonJon
you are so clueless. Look at YOUR tone in this debate. Now like the typical, spirtually challenged christer, you're trying to take the high ground, where in the process, you're just digging a hole.... deeper and deeper.

I just was refuting your "early death" crap. You would not understand debate, because you obviously are only here to stand on your soap box. I am not hating you. Unlike a christer, I don't judge people and don't base my acceptance on their genetics. I am not denouncing your "choice" for being heterosexual. I am not attacking you. Do ya get it mikee? You attack gays and when we defend ourselves, you say it's hate and we're going to hell. We stand back up and give you facts, and you will not listen. Such wonderful christer love on your part. Can you attempt a little critical thinking here? There's a big world outside the babble.

Who would ever choose to be gay when we have to deal with bigots like yourself, day in day out? Believe me, it's not a convenience. But I do know that homosexuality is hardwired. Pure and simple.

And all this judging your doing... perhaps you should choose the part about "not judging or end up being judged" from your cafeteria christer-hate-buffet before you make a further fool of yourself.

And BTW... Do YOU have a direct phone to god? Or are you just spouting forth from your chosen beliefs? Gay is not a choice. Even your fellow christers know that. Educate yourself before you really embarass yourself even more.

I've been fortunate enough to sit with the Tich nat Hahn, the Dali Lama and other amazing spiritual beings in my life. I can assure you, they are by far more enlightened than any christer I've ever met. And.. btw. I'm a recovered born-again. I saw the light. I suggest you stop being such a ditto-head and think for yourself.

Now Shoo shoo... or someone will drop a house on you too!
Posted by Mikegj1077 9 years ago
Mikegj1077
"You lost this debate. You're the (a) loser."

You are so final in your tone, so resolute in your sin. So absolutely wrong in your outlook about homosexuality as just another life choice. I do not listen to "propaganda." God does not dish out propaganda. He does not hate like you and your kind. You can rattle off the names and ages of your friends who (only with God's blessing) have not contracted AIDS and are still alive. I can rattle off the names of just as many cigarette smokers who live to a ripe old age, 70, 80 and beyond. You should not rationalize your predicament like that. I will not go away. I will listen to your hate, and like before, I will pray.
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