The Instigator
ctlaster
Pro (for)
Winning
39 Points
The Contender
patriots16-0
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Gay marriage should be made legal. To deny homosexuals their right to equality creates hatred.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,805 times Debate No: 1731
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (83)
Votes (17)

 

ctlaster

Pro

"Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it."

Coretta Scott King uttered these powerful words preaching peace, love, and equality.

To deny homosexuals the right to marry or legally adopt children to raise a family is a repeat of history. This will become the next Civil Rights movement if this country continues to promote hatred. To preach "family values" and promote hatred and discrimination is an oxymoron.
patriots16-0

Con

PART 1

This is how i look at it a gay person is just as bad as a murderer or a someone who robs a bank, or some one who is prejiduce or someone who is selling drugs. You may or may not agree with me on this, and going into this debate I know i am propabably going to loose this debate because this website is full of a bunch of people that dont care about God or the Bible and what it has to say. They just blindly assume that being gay is rite and dont stop to even think of they chaos that it would cause if even just 1/2 of our nation was gay. If a kid eas raised by two dads or two moms then that kid would grow up and end up being messed up. Same sex relationship never works out for the kis or the parents you know how many people would be divorced people there would be if it was same sex marriage through out the whole united states. Kids lifes would be ruined once there parents get devorced its aterrible thing but with gay marriages people dont stay together for more then a couple maby a few years.

I ALWAYS HEAR this GOD HATES FAGGS God does no hate gay people any more then he hates a murderer or a robberor a rapist ect. He loves the person in extending his common grace to you such as letting you breathe letting you think, giving you friends ect. But he does hate your sin and the sin that all gay people are commiting. It is a sin to be gay. And God hates that sin. Thats why gay peoples marriage should be illigal because God said so. That simple.

PART 2

"To deny homosexuals the right to marry or legally adopt children to raise a family is a repeat of history. This will become the next Civil Rights movement if this country continues to promote hatred. To preach "family values" and promote hatred and discrimination is an oxymoron."

That is the most stupid and idiotic thing i have ever hears in a long time honestly i think you are a "oxymoron" if you are comparing gay people to the Civil Rights movement first of all black people getting what they DESERVED was rite like seets on the bus better schools being able to have the luxeries of what white people have and that was ok because they deservrd those things. But gay people do not deserve to be able to get married because it causes to many problems in the family such as divorce and then that hurts your kid and then your kid grows up to be a worst person then he could have been. Thats what happens when a gay couple get married they almost always end up getting divorced and dont say it hasnt because you look back at history and it happens all the time, plus its bad on the kids and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is against Gods law the one that loves you and cares for you. But this is why i say it is not like the Civil Rights its because your "movement" and the very thing that you stand for is all WRONG!! Th e Civil Rights movement was rite they deserved what they got God encourages what they did. But God does no ENCOURAGE you actually he forbids you to be the way you are so I will not encourage you like most people do these days. God is the way the truth and the life and thats why i fallow him instead of the world where they say, Oh dont worry about it you can be gay, well I belive that marriage should be between a man a women thats the way its been for along time and thats the way it should remain.
Debate Round No. 1
ctlaster

Pro

Okay. After thoroughly reading your attempt at a rebuttal, I have formulated my response. I think that you truly have a lot to learn about life and the cultures of the world. Homosexuality is in no way comparable to murder. I have done nothing wrong. I have not contemplated killing or stealing, and I promote peace in every aspect of my life. To discuss your divorce "facts"-- The Pennsylvania State College of Medicine recently did a study on divorce and I would like to share some of the true medical facts that were presented. One of the facts presented is when divorce rate grew in the 70's, many believed it was due to the lack of paternal involvement that would cause the stress, anxiety, and depression. However, several studies performed by the the National Survey of Children, have shown that paternal participation has a negligible effect, if any, on the well being of children (academics, behavioral problems, distress, and delinquency). That proves that the man or the woman can have an effect on the well-being of a child. It shows that regardless of sexual orientation or gender, divorce is extremely painful for children. And your facts that state that gay couples always break up--can you cite something that proves that so that i can see that, because I find that hard to believe. You did say one thing that I also found disturbing (and its not just your ignorance thinking that the Bible is the factual truth)-- you said that being gay is just as bad as someone who is prejudice. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the word prejudice as, "preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics." To review that definition, I believe your argument has no more backing. That is an oxymoron. Your statement is a complete contradiction--you, my friend, are showing yourself to have prejudices towards homosexuality.

And to rebut your PART 2-- denying homosexuals their basic rights as individual human beings will create a repeat of the Civil Rights movement. The words "civil rights" define as being basic citizen rights, just to clear that up for you. And yes, it will be a repeat of the Civil Rights movement because we, as human beings are being denied basic rights. You cannot quote the Bible and say that homosexuality is wrong, when the Bible states that women should not have rights and should be subservient towards men while also promoting and encouraging slavery. And this country does not promote slavery any more, nor do we deny women the basic rights as we grant to men. In fact, just a little over 45 years ago, interracial marriage was seen as a sin in the eyes of the evangelical Christian church. Moreover, during the Civil Rights Movement, people thought the EXACT same way you do towards African Americans---people believed that the very thing that African Americans were fighting for was all wrong, but we have discovered that it wasnt all wrong!!

I look forward to your response, patriots. However, just to let you know, Peace and equality= moral values.
patriots16-0

Con

"You cannot quote the Bible and say that homosexuality is wrong, when the Bible states that women should not have rights and should be subservient towards men while also promoting and encouraging slavery. And this country does not promote slavery any more, nor do we deny women the basic rights as we grant to men."

You say that the bible says that women do no have writse and you say that the bible says that we should ENCOURAGE slavery. If you can I would like you to find these verses in the bible and post them in your nex argument.

Well again, and I dont know why unbelievers like to point out the bad things that Christians themselves do and thety never point out the things that God did was wrong if there are any. If ONE church thought that the Civil Rights movement was wrong and that black people shouldnt be treated fairly, well then SHAME on that church. But I am not talking about Churches I am talking about how God and how he thinks of it. Because churches and denominations make mistakes and sin all the time but God is always PERFECT. Thats why when he says gays are a sin and that they are wrong I belive it.

The only reason why i think gays are sinful is because God says it is and there is no wron with me in saying that acctually its rite for me to say it because i t is standing up for what i belive i no matter what the WORLD says. No matter how much society changes God never changes people may inturprit the word wrongly but that dosent make God wrong. Its not God who changes its society that has changed. And I believe that society has gotten better in not torturing people and being blood thirsty all the time. People have made great accomplishments in that madder do to GODS help and because JESUS died on the cross. But I believe society has gotten worst in the way that Atheists are having it so that teachers cant pray because its not fair to other Atheists that might be in the building at the same time when in acctuality its not fair to christians because we were there first and back in the 1700 people would learn to read so that they could read the Bible in SCHOOLS. I belive that society has changed into a culture where they accept homosexuals and i belive it is sick and wrong because God says it is sick and wrong. Im sick of trying to explain why gays should be wrong because of how its no good for the children, and how the bodie wasnt ment for sex between two people of the same sex. Im sick of debating that way. Because saying that it is wrong because God said it is wrong is enough it should be enough to stop all the protests that happen in Washington.
Because God is all powerful God is all deciding and he is also all perfect and thats why Being gay is wrong because you CREATOR said so.
Debate Round No. 2
ctlaster

Pro

Patriots-

In my closing argument, I have finally come to realize that you do not grasp the effects of hatred and discrimination for being a minority. What i deal with on a daily basis from people that call themselves "christians" and the promoters of "family values" highly discredits the Christian faith. I understand that you are young and you havent had (from what i can tell) enough life experience to know that you cannot say that "god hates this sin" anymore...especially in politics. I find it humorous to know that people like you are in this world and strongly believe that mixing religion and politics...or mixing religion with civil rights, is the right way to believe all because "God said so!" I am not asking you to believe that homosexuality is right or wrong, because who is to say what right and wrong is?! I am asking you to respect the fact that people in this world believe differently than you do; believe differently than the Evangelical doctrine preaches. We are all human beings--all capable of emotions and that we all are different. We all have unique things about us, and that is what makes each and every one of us extremely interesting!! We are all equal! And nothing says equal like the right to marry the one you truly love!
patriots16-0

Con

"I am asking you to respect the fact that people in this world believe differently than you do; believe differently than the Evangelical doctrine preaches."

Anyone who believes differently on this side of the debate is a sychotic liberal that contradicts themselves every time they speak in a debate do to stupidity and arregance. They also have no way of thinking for themselves, only changing when society does. They also can not grasp the full awsomeness of there own creator the one that loves and cares for them. Yes he cares for you and spreads his common grace to you even though you are a Homosexual or a murderer. Do respect people that believe differently then me its just when it comse to not disagreeing with me but my God then I have no choice the only choice I can make is to agree with him because he is perfect anyways. The other thing that also nobody seems to understand is how chaotic it would be without a God. It seems like everyone on this website will deny that Hitler was wrong in what he did just to support there thinking that doesn't make any sence anyways. I not only think that, that is stupid and illogical thinking but i also think that it is scary.

So I do HONESTLY respect the decisions and the other ideas of people but not when it is going against God.
Debate Round No. 3
83 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Blond Guy,

While I agree that the Con was wrong in his beliefs, your comments show that you are the narrow minded one. I debated the same guy myself for the same thing, and guess what? I am conservatiive. Such a broad and generalizing statement is highly narrow minded.

And please stop referencing Hitler to the all of Christianity. It getting old. People have a right to let religion influence their political beliefs. Get over it.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
ctlaster, you're awesome. You destroyed your opponent and even the votes show it. I tried debating on gay marriage before but a pretty smart Hillary supporter came around and played devil's advocate on me. And surprisingly he won!

this just didnt happen to you because the guy you debated wasn't so smart and didn't understand you (conservative=narrow-minded).

"It seems like everyone on this website will deny that Hitlerwas wrong in what he did"

Not to mention how many times he mentioned God. This is not a theocracy for Christ's sake!
Posted by Sappho_Incarnate 9 years ago
Sappho_Incarnate
"'I am asking you to respect the fact that people in this world believe differently than you do; believe differently than the Evangelical doctrine preaches.'

Anyone who believes differently on this side of the debate is a sychotic liberal that contradicts themselves every time they speak in a debate do to stupidity and arregance. They also have no way of thinking for themselves, only changing when society does."

So liberals are people who cannot think for themselves? Look in the mirror! You only believe what mommy and daddy and the bible tell you. You can't grasp anything anyone else tells you. Will you think about this for a minute? Homosexuals aren't just people who have sex with people of their own gender. They're people who feel involuntarily attracted to their own gender and have romantic feeling towards them. They are people who fall in love which is a miricle of God in itself. I know you will probably completely disreguard this argument, cover your ears and say "God says its wrong, God says it's wrong!" Honestly, you are truely a sheep, stupid and blind. You probably don't even understand half of what the Bible says anyway, you take it all so freakin' literally. Please, do the world a favor and never reproduce.
Posted by prepsexpot69 9 years ago
prepsexpot69
My views on this are not just because I am a homosexual, but I will voice my opinion in full.

Now, patriot16-0. If you point me to a reference in your so-called Bible (that you probably do not live by on a daily basis like your religion states you should) and it states that homosexuality is an abomination punishable by eternity in Hell, then I will personally send you a check for $1,000.

Here's the thing, it states in many places in the Bible that it is forbidden for a man to lie with another man in the same bed that he lies with his wife. It also states in Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." I bet you do that just as much as any other human being.

Now, disobeying one of the ten commandments is a sin, correct? Committing acts of sodomy are considered a sin, not an abomination. The Christian God forgives all sins, big or small. Asking for forgiveness will give you a clean slate. Or, is that just something said to heterosexual people? Are you honestly stating that homosexuals are not good enough to be redeemed of their sins and transgressions? Are you honestly going to state you, a HETEROSEXUAL, are better than ANY homosexual walking this Earth. And, who are you to judge us? Isn't it YOUR God that judges us in the end? Not you.

Yes, this is off topic, but you are constantly dragging religion in on this. This is on if it should be ALLOWED or NOT. I believe it should be LEGALIZED. If in the instance you were gay, do you believe, in your narrow-minded ways, that you would be comfortable and okay with the fact that you could not be joined in union with your life partner? Do you believe you would be okay knowing you will be nothing more than "dating" the person you are with for the rest of your life?

For once, put yourself in the shoes of someone that is experiencing the hatred and the demeaning ways of society. For once, act like you could care for someone else outside of your belief spectrum.
Posted by Zasch 9 years ago
Zasch
>>>The funny thing about stereotypes is for the most part they tend be more truthful than not.<<<

I'd challenge you to back this up.

>>>Putting it in a very simplistic manner the mother provides emotional support and comfort while the father provides, usually, discipline and a more worldly view of things. Again, this is a VERY simplistic view intended only to satisfy your immediate curiosity. The true answer would take volumes to explain, though I suspect you already know it.<<<

Indeed, I do already know :) I also know that this view of gender roles is outdated, even in a descriptive fashion let alone a normative one. Biologically/psychologically speaking, there is no reason why a male cannot provide "warmth" and a female "discipline", and indeed my own experience and studies seem to suggest that these duties are being increasingly shared in an egalitarian fashion. Furthermore, many societies view things *quite* differently (some, for instance, expect the male to simply provide income whereas the female provides both warmth and discipline. Some expect the male to be very passionate and emotional whereas the female is expected to be closed and calculating, etc,.). Warmth and discipline are warmth and discpiline regardless of where they come from, and the empirical data seems to back this up.

>>>In any event, this insomniac is going to try again to get some sleep. I appreciate you giving me something to do in the meantime.<<<

Not a problem! I'm filling out paperwork, and it is so mind-numbingly boring that having the opporitunity to have this discussion with you has really saved me from going insane. Feel free to engage me in a discussion anytime about anything :)
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"Yes, this assumes traditional gender stereotyping as being "true", and thus men and women are "incorrect" if they behave in a manner contrary to this. Before I can move on, though, you need to specify exactly what YOU think constitutes the "role" that mothers and fathers play: What makes a man a man, and a woman a woman? For instance, your concept is very likely to be quite different than the concept a Russian person will give to me, or an Indian person, or a Frenchman, and so I need to be very clear on which gender stereotypes you affirm and which ones you don't."

The funny thing about stereotypes is for the most part they tend be more truthful than not.

Putting it in a very simplistic manner the mother provides emotional support and comfort while the father provides, usually, discipline and a more worldly view of things. Again, this is a VERY simplistic view intended only to satisfy your immediate curiosity. The true answer would take volumes to explain, though I suspect you already know it.

In any event, this insomniac is going to try again to get some sleep. I appreciate you giving me something to do in the meantime.
Posted by Zasch 9 years ago
Zasch
>>>A woman taking on the role of a father or a man taking on the role of a mother simply isn't equipped to handle the "role" they are trying to play.<<<

Yes, this assumes traditional gender stereotyping as being "true", and thus men and women are "incorrect" if they behave in a manner contrary to this. Before I can move on, though, you need to specify exactly what YOU think constitutes the "role" that mothers and fathers play: What makes a man a man, and a woman a woman? For instance, your concept is very likely to be quite different than the concept a Russian person will give to me, or an Indian person, or a Frenchman, and so I need to be very clear on which gender stereotypes you affirm and which ones you don't.

(Note, once again, that I cited actual evidence, not merely just logical conjecture)
Posted by Zasch 9 years ago
Zasch
Once again, this all seems to very strongly suggest that your view of gays and gay marriage came first, and then all of these other reasons developed after that. Your argument from procreation has failed, your argument from parenting has failed, your attempts at defending against the economic correlation failed, you have failed to defend against my crossapplication of liberty, your failure re: parenting results in my family values argument going through, and yet what you seem to be doing is selectively accepting certain statistics (or ignoring the ones you don't like, such as those that suggest that Western Europe and Canada are very very prosperous), selectively accepting certian definitions, all in a manner to allow you to negate gay marriage. However, your selectivity results in contradictions and absurdities (for instance, your inconsistent functional definition for discrimination or your somewhat nonstandard definition of prosperity).

We've been discussing this subject for several hours now, and you have dropped a massive number of arguments. I don't care if you acknowledge it or not, but it is a little disrespectful to then accuse me of changing the subject to avoid admitting I was wrong, especially when that just doesn't seem to be the case even by your own criterion.

I'm also very tired, too (20 hours awake and counting), so I might be getting a bit cranky.
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"as if gender has some magical property about it that, I don't know, "powers" gender roles? I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here, could you clarify?"

It's not self evident?

An actor pretending to be the President of the United states doesn't make him/her capable of making the difficult decisions that face the REAL POTUS.

A woman taking on the role of a father or a man taking on the role of a mother simply isn't equipped to handle the "role" they are trying to play.
Posted by Zasch 9 years ago
Zasch
>>>We weren't discussing human development. We were discussing prosperous nations.<<<

What, the level of education, healthcare, life expectancy, and standard of living isn't relevant to what constitues a "prosperous nation"? Can you explain by what logic these factors are discounted when deciding how prosperous a nation is?

>>>Quit trying to change the subject to avoid acknowledging you were wrong.<<<

Not only did I disprove you on the relevant measure (that is, human development), but you were utterly disproven on even your measure of GDP per capita (Which I raised an issue against that you did not defend), and you didn't even address things such as press freedom or economic freedom.
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