The Instigator
Kitalinai
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Sswdwm
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Gay marriage.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Sswdwm
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/22/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 868 times Debate No: 53070
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (2)

 

Kitalinai

Pro

Okay soo, I don't like having to defend my sexuality. But I always will. Even if it wasn't gay I would defend it. I'm writing a research paper on "Gay Rights". One of the questions I have to answer is "why are people gay" which really confused me. I don't think there is a "set" reason why. So I look it up. & this website comes up. Saying "scientist finally unlock puzzle to why people are gay". As I'm reading through this I look to my friend Shanda Marie Mossholder & say why did I do this subject? Because I was mad. "Scientist" say that "lesbians are lesbians because they get a genetic trait from their father & gay men get it from their mothers". CAN YOU NOT! I strongly disagree with this point. Yes I believe you are born gay. But I don't think I got a trait from my father. Then me & some of my classmates are debating about it & we ask our teacher her opinion. Now before I tell you anything else, my theory this whole year has been she doesn't like me because of my sexuality. The reason I have that theory is, she liked me until she made us draw a picture of "utopia" our happy place. & I put the same sex symbol & the noh8. Sorry to express my self. Then later my supposed to be "best friend" gives me crap for maybe the 4th time in two days for kissing my girlfriend. If boys & girls can kiss in public. My girlfriend & I can too. It's not like we are having sex or asking you to join in our kiss. If you don't like it. Then please. Don't look. Don't waste my time with your bitching. Please clearly. I don't care. Also, the other day I'm sitting at my lunch table talking to my friends & my girlfriend. I have my hand on my girlfriends knee & we are just talking. A teacher walks behind me & is eying us, my friend points it out, I turn to look. She turns making sure we can't read her lips to what she says to our principal & he immediately starts staring at my hand. Before he even had the chance to say anything I stepped in & said "if it was a boy & a girl you wouldn't say anything so don't even". My principal had the audacity to laugh at me & try to be my "friend". CAN YOU NOT! You are my principal. Not my friend. You shouldn't look down on me for my sexuality. I'm just over having to defend my sexuality. It's who I am. I AM ME! Sorry not sorry. People say "it's against God" I strongly believe God doesn't love me any less for my sexuality. I honestly think it was in his plan. Also, half the people who give Gays crap for their sexuality and say it's a sin & is against the bible. How many of you that judge me are virgins and not married? Nine times out of ten they aren't. And the bible says you automatically go to hell for that. I don't think I "got it genetically." I think I was born this way & it just took time for me to discover & accept it. I look at All these websites & they talk about how they have done all these tests on homosexuals to try to figure out why we are who we are. Why do they not run tests on straight people to see why they are who they are? Why is "Gay" used as an insult that I hear 50+ times a day. Most the time I don't take it to heart bc I get it I guess. But why gay? Why do we have to judge each other & try to change one another. Growing up I was always taught to be my self. We all were. By our teachers, our parents or any other adult that influences around us. Don't teach us to be ourselves. & then judge us for who we are... I guess my small rant is over. For now. Please if anyone has come backs or comments. Please. Do, I won't rip your head off or anything, I Just don't understand why people can't just except that some people are gay. Move on with your life. It doesn't affect you.
Sswdwm

Con

Thanks for the open challenge Pro.

Preamble:

I intend to demonstrate that marriage between same-sex couples is generally negative for society and should not be allowed/legalized if it is not already.

Pro's Contentions:

Pro's contentions appear to be the following:

1. "Gay marriage should be legal."
2. "Homosexuality is not genetic."
3. "Gay people should not be mistreated."

I see no reason to argue against #3 for the resolution, I will let that pass #1 is the main point and #2 will be discussed briefly.

Marriage:
I hold that marriage is a strongly negative custom for society for a number of reasons. And this following part of my attack on gay marriage is primarily with this in hand. While it is not directly at attacking the idea of same-sex, it prevents the greater evil of allowing additional marriages to occur.

Cost:
The average wedding costs in excess of ~£18,000 ($30,238 US) with an unsurprising substantial associated debt with the hosting of such an event [1]. We are entering an age where we much become economically stable and be less reliant on perpetual market growth, I assert that we should not be allowing people to so freely and socially acceptable purge a significant portion of their spending power on this.

Legal:
Married couples are unfairly contracted by the government, with various legal nuances that should not be allowed. Immigration rights, council taxation benefits, unfair adoption advantages. On the flipside the government empowers the less wealthy halves of marriages, leading to the uncomfortable custody and financial separation issues we are familiar with. Moreover marriage weakens a spouses ability to defend herself against charges that are brought against the other spouse, including and especially in homicidal & cases of rape.

Socialogical Impact:

The most striking statistic is in the United States, ~53% of all marriages currently end in divorce [2], with countries in the EU roughly in line with this statistic, and the countries that are lower are invariably due to legal & religious hoops that need to be traversed in the divorce process. Marriage institutes a culture of possession, jealousy, control and in many cases domination. Furthermore it encourages a social acceptance of monogamy, moreover it is seen as an accomplishment in life to be married and bear children. In a world with an ever growing population, and with our growing understanding of our natural social and reproductive tendancies (which appear to be somewhat in between poly & mono) [3-5], rapid changes are required in our presuppositions in what we deem to be acceptable and sustainable cultural values if we are to flourish.

Religious Institution:

I agree that religion is a poor argument against same-sex marriage, but it is a good argument against marriage altogether. Religious marriages all carry with them a plethora of values, requirements & expectations, and these are often negative from an external outlook. These include many of the values I have already mentioned, most commonly symbolism of particularly the female halves as a possession, subordinate or ‘to serve’ her male partner. These amongst other unequal rights such as male polygyny, arranged marriage, underage marriage and mandatory conversion (interfaith marriage).

By endorsing and allowing marriage we effectively endorse the manifestly negative religious practices I have described.

Same-Sex Marriage:

So, given that I have stated up to this point, just what are the social benefits of marriage? I can only come up with a tiny handful, but the major one that stands out is the contractual and social requirement for two parents to raise children. I concede this might have some merit in a society in which we would like to continue to expand out population, as the economy and total Earth population stands right now I see little reason to accept this desire (as I have already mentioned). More importantly though, many countries already have legal nets (monetary-wise) in place to mandate a partner to continue to contribute to the upbringing of a child outside of wedlock if they do not do so willingly (for example, the paying of child support in the states, UK and other nations).

This argument for marriage (however weak) does not apply as readily to same-sex couples however, for they generally will not bring forth children. Moreover this line of reasoning is still weak since obviously in society today people marry despite being unable to reproduce or are unwilling to even adopt anyway (too old, sterile, etc.). Therefore Pro needs to bring forth an argument that endorses marriage more strongly than the reasons I have provided, and which would include same-sex marriages within it’s spectrum of argumentation.

Genetics:
Sexuality is a complicated trait and is known to depend on multiple factors one of the largest factors is indeed genetic. There are many studies I could list, but the easiest and most compelling one to show are separated-identical twins at birth. Identical twins share almost all their DNA with their identical siblings, and separation largely eliminates environmental factors [6]. More comprehensive data is found with non-birth separated identical twins [7] (as we have more examples of them), for example one study found a 48% homosexuality concordance between monozygotic twins, significantly greater than 16% concordance found in dizygotic female twins which is larger than the background rate of an adopted sister (6%). Sexuality isn’t entirely genetically determined, a number of complex factors including ‘brain gender’, epigenetics and upbringing, but it is a significant component of it.


Conclusion:
I have built a good case for rejecting the motion that gay marriage should be legal. I look forward to Pro's rebuttals on the matter.

References:

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

[2] http://www.cdc.gov...

[3] http://online.wsj.com...

[4] http://scitechdaily.com...

[5]http://www.ted.com...

[6] http://bjp.rcpsych.org...

[7] http://www.worldpolicy.newschool.edu...

Debate Round No. 1
Kitalinai

Pro

Kitalinai forfeited this round.
Sswdwm

Con

:-(

Extend arguments...
Debate Round No. 2
Kitalinai

Pro

Kitalinai forfeited this round.
Sswdwm

Con

This was a shame.

Vote con.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I try to encourage my fiance to engage in lesbian behavior all the time. I tell her it's natural. I need advice for helping her to discover her gay side.
Posted by Sswdwm 2 years ago
Sswdwm
Huh?? Me??
Posted by AlbinoBunny 2 years ago
AlbinoBunny
Homosexuality is still discriminated against, but you do seem to have a bit of misplaced anger.
Posted by AlbinoBunny 2 years ago
AlbinoBunny
@thesouthwillrise - "You are clearly not educated on the Bible. You automatically go to hell for having premarital sex? No, it is just highly looked down upon.

However, in Leviticus 20:13, it says: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them". This works the same way for women."

Just claiming it is the same way for women doesn't make it so.
Posted by Sswdwm 2 years ago
Sswdwm
Sorry this was so late..... Rly sorry
Posted by Kitalinai 2 years ago
Kitalinai
My grammar is correct most the time besides that I didn't use paragraphs. And I said it shouldn't be only my job. But ok. Thanks for the input everyone.
Posted by Kitalinai 2 years ago
Kitalinai
To owlz, thank you. You make very valid points. God wouldn't make us for society to make our lives living hell. I strongly believe God doesn't love me any less. And your right, "thesouthwillrise" I'm not highly educated on the bible because I was kicked out of church when I was 14 for being gay. So sorry. And never really had the need or want to pick up a bible. I love God and He knows it. And I know He loves me. So I don't see the need.
Posted by sengejuri 2 years ago
sengejuri
Actually, as the instigator, it IS your job to write a clear resolution. And if you want to be taken seriously, then grammar is very important as well. If you just want to rant then stick to facebook. If you actually want to debate, then you need to convey your ideas clearly and concisely. Not trying to be rude, just trying to help.
Posted by Sswdwm 2 years ago
Sswdwm
I'll have my argument up in the nest 4-5 hours.
Posted by Jonbonbon 2 years ago
Jonbonbon
Tl;dr
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
KitalinaiSswdwmTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Geogeer 2 years ago
Geogeer
KitalinaiSswdwmTied
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Reasons for voting decision: That is too bad, it could have been good. Forfeit to Con.