The Instigator
harrytruman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Pigzooka
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Gay marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 669 times Debate No: 83525
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
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harrytruman

Con

start using your brains and don't just listen to the liberal television OK? A little common sense goes a long way. So, here is the various bible verses about homosexuality;
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:26-27
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:8-10
Jude 1:7
So there you go, also, I never did get the whole "born that way thing", before I figured it out my thoughts about it were "You guys been watching too much 'invasion of the body snatchers'", but now I get it, after having a long talk with a gay guy, he said,
"I don't doubt that gays have a choice in committing sexual acts, only that they do not choose who they are attracted to"
well first of all the bible says that committing the sexual act is a sin, not being attracted to people of the same gender, there are people who are born with a predisposition to be attracted to animals, but you don't defend bestiality, and say I am attracted to women, it does not justify pornography just because I am attracted to said pictures,
Oh yeah, and no, people who do not support homosexuality are not like the people who had an issue with black people getting rights, quite the opposite actually, the southerners said that the north was infringing their rights to own slaves, even though there is no right to own slaves, the supreme court even decided to defend said "pseudo- right" in the Dred Scott trial, geese, that sounds familiar to a recent supreme court ruling, you can't make harmonious immoral act moral by calling it a right, for example:
Me saying that I am entitled to the right to own that particular stuff does not entitle me to steal other people's stuff, but, I am entitled to the same rights as them, why don't I have the right to own his life savings too, so I am justified in stealing, well, if said person earns money, he is entitled to that money, but not money that he did not earn.
Same thing, gay people say that they have the right to marriage, so they should be able to be perverts, gay marriage is not marriage, so, if you want the right to marriage, you got it, go get married to someone of the opposite gender, that's marriage, no one is depriving you of it, no one else gets to marry people of the same gender, so we are not denying you the same rights as straight people.
Pigzooka

Pro

Well, the Bible also bans eating pork: "You shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their carcasses, for they are unclean." (Leviticus 11:8) as well as polyester/mixed-material clothes: "...Nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material woven together." (Leviticus 19:19) as well as eating shellfish: "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you." (Leviticus 11:10). I assume that you have eaten bacon and shellfish, and own polyester clothing; why do you condemn people who break certain Bible verses, while you break others? My point is that no one lives life perfectly by the Bible, so you need to practice what you (literally) preach.

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Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Con

"Well, the Bible also bans eating pork: "You shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their carcasses, for they are unclean." (Leviticus 11:8) as well as polyester/mixed-material clothes: "...Nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material woven together." (Leviticus 19:19) as well as eating shellfish: "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you." (Leviticus 11:10). I assume that you have eaten bacon and shellfish, and own polyester clothing; why do you condemn people who break certain Bible verses, while you break others? My point is that no one lives life perfectly by the Bible, so you need to practice what you (literally) preach."

Those are hygiene laws, and good ones I should think, consider this; you consider child pornography to be immoral (sexual immorality), but not not washing your hands before preparing food (hygiene law), though they are both illegal (the pure food and drug act), and under the same set of laws, hence, under your logic, nothing illegal is immoral because "United States law also prohibits not washing your hands before preparing food or selling food without a good handlers license", this would justify:
Murder
Stealing
Fraud
Prostitution (depending on which state you live in)
Etc.

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Debate Round No. 1
Pigzooka

Pro

Those are good points, except that God condones each of those activities, either directly or through Jesus, in orders to his followers, and commits millions of murders himself. "But wait!" you say. "The Midianites, Ammorites, Ammonites and Marmites all committed sins! So God was justified in doing it!" If the Bible is written by God, this is rather like a jury mobbing and killing a man and then acquitting themselves. The Bible is racked with hypocrisy and is untrustworthy.

Assuming, however, that the Bible is correct, your argument about hygiene vs. morality makes no sense. Hygiene laws and morality laws are two kinds of Biblical law; yet there are many more kinds. What do we follow, and what do we not follow? That's what different Christian sects form to decide. You've just founded the Church of Harrytruman, but other Christians may not follow or agree with all of your rules. Are Christians (or non-Christians) who disagree with one part of your theology (not allowing gay marriage) not valid Christians, yet Christians who disagree with another part (allowing the consumption of bacon) valid? This makes no sense. You are entitled to your opinion about the interpretation of the Bible, but you are NOT entitled to interpret it for others.
Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Con

"Those are good points, except that God condones each of those activities, either directly or through Jesus, in orders to his followers, and commits millions of murders himself. "But wait!" you say. "The Midianites, Ammorites, Ammonites and Marmites all committed sins! So God was justified in doing it!" If the Bible is written by God, this is rather like a jury mobbing and killing a man and then acquitting themselves. The Bible is racked with hypocrisy and is untrustworthy."

What activities? What orders?

"Assuming, however, that the Bible is correct, your argument about hygiene vs. morality makes no sense. Hygiene laws and morality laws are two kinds of Biblical law; yet there are many more kinds. What do we follow, and what do we not follow? That's what different Christian sects form to decide. You've just founded the Church of Harrytruman, but other Christians may not follow or agree with all of your rules. Are Christians (or non-Christians) who disagree with one part of your theology (not allowing gay marriage) not valid Christians, yet Christians who disagree with another part (allowing the consumption of bacon) valid? This makes no sense. You are entitled to your opinion about the interpretation of the Bible, but you are NOT entitled to interpret it for others."

Again, what are you talking about, this stuff is not up for interpretation, different laws bear different levels of immorality, and hygiene laws are the least of it.
Pigzooka

Pro

Ok, I'd assumed you'd read the Old Testament (I've read the LEGO version; try it), but I will explain. Here are a few examples: Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and butt." Poor Amalekites! Sucks to be them. God-ordered genocide. NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who completely destroyed them and their towns (Not a verbatim quote, but captures the meaning) Canaanites bite the dust; Israelites move in, just like God says. NUMBERS 31:17-18 (In these verses, Moses is commanded to kill the Midianites, except for the virgin women, who are raped) So God is very violent, and uses just the same spread-the-race-kill-the-enemies rhetoric that Hitler favored in his genocides (Hitler being Christian, God also condoned those). Let me ask you which is worse: A person who DOES follow the Bible literally doing these things, or a homosexual person who does NOT follow the Bible literally getting married.

As you said yourself: "This stuff is up for interpretation." You say the hygiene laws are the LEAST important part of the Bible; I say that the least important part of the Bible darn well better be the part where God orders genocides, or else Christians would have done that. Oh wait... Anyway, I think what you don't understand is that YOUR interpretation of the Bible is no more important or valid than mine is. The Bible is a highly confusing book that bosses people around. NO ONE knows what it really says. So if a homosexual person says that the least important part of the Bible is the part that says he or she can't marry the person they love, then they've got just as valid a point as a person who says that the least important part is the one that says that they can't eat chameleons (no, really). The Bible itself sure doesn't say which is the most important. It just gives commands, and Christian sects are who interprets them. So YOU can't force YOUR judgement onto ME about what the Bible says; I'm free to make my own judgement.
Debate Round No. 3
harrytruman

Con

"Ok, I'd assumed you'd read the Old Testament (I've read the LEGO version; try it), but I will explain. Here are a few examples: Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and butt." Poor Amalekites! Sucks to be them. God-ordered genocide. NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who completely destroyed them and their towns (Not a verbatim quote, but captures the meaning) Canaanites bite the dust; Israelites move in, just like God says. NUMBERS 31:17-18 (In these verses, Moses is commanded to kill the Midianites, except for the virgin women, who are raped) So God is very violent, and uses just the same spread-the-race-kill-the-enemies rhetoric that Hitler favored in his genocides (Hitler being Christian, God also condoned those). Let me ask you which is worse: A person who DOES follow the Bible literally doing these things, or a homosexual person who does NOT follow the Bible literally getting married."
This was for a very good reason, you see, when people excavated the site, they discovered that they all were plagued with a horrible disease, which is so slow that they were better off dead.

"As you said yourself: "This stuff is up for interpretation." You say the hygiene laws are the LEAST important part of the Bible; I say that the least important part of the Bible darn well better be the part where God orders genocides, or else Christians would have done that. Oh wait... Anyway, I think what you don't understand is that YOUR interpretation of the Bible is no more important or valid than mine is. The Bible is a highly confusing book that bosses people around. NO ONE knows what it really says. So if a homosexual person says that the least important part of the Bible is the part that says he or she can't marry the person they love, then they've got just as valid a point as a person who says that the least important part is the one that says that they can't eat chameleons (no, really). The Bible itself sure doesn't say which is the most important. It just gives commands, and Christian sects are who interprets them. So YOU can't force YOUR judgement onto ME about what the Bible says; I'm free to make my own judgement.""
Of the laws, it is least important, and no, it is not up for interpretation, it says that something is wrong, it means just that, THE END.
Pigzooka

Pro

What? A "horrible disease?" You're justifying a genocide because some of the people had a "horrible disease?" That's like Americans being mass murdered because some of us have AIDS! The Israelites were WRONG, and God told them to do it! Besides, Hitler killed a bunch of disabled people, and a lot of them had "horrible diseases."

No, the Bible says "and thou shalt not eat (blank)" "not commit (blank)" "not begin (blank)." It doesn't say "the most important thing you must remember is not to (blank)" or "this verse is more important than verse Leviticus 11:6, but less important than Leviticus 12:13." If the Bible says something, it's just a command. There's no qualifiers on it, no values attached to it, and everything you can say about it is YOUR judgement. I pass my own judgement, which is just as valid as yours.
Debate Round No. 4
harrytruman

Con

harrytruman forfeited this round.
Pigzooka

Pro

I WiN WOOHOO
Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by harrytruman 11 months ago
harrytruman
You know, you are the most hilarious person I met Jonbonbon, first you say that him being racist does not lessen my racism, even though I am not being racist I am simply peacefully protesting homosexuality, then you say that the sin of homosexuality is lessened by us also being sinners, so first one sin does not lessen another, but then it does, how does that work Jonbonbon?
Posted by harrytruman 11 months ago
harrytruman
Well how about it Jonbonbon?
Posted by harrytruman 12 months ago
harrytruman
As you can see folks, Jonbonbon continues to deflect the question, where are those forum posts Jonbonbon? How about it, oh, what's that, THERE ARE NONE?!?!!!!!!
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
I didn't come here to say you're stupid. I came here to tell you to stop talking to everyone like they're idiots. I'm not going to bother digging dirt up on you. You're not worth the time to me. I just want you to stop misrepresenting Christianity. Building hate against God, no matter what form it comes in, is never a good thing.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
You came here to say I'm stupid, what about those forum posts eh, cite them please?
Posted by Pigzooka 1 year ago
Pigzooka
There's room in the world for all sorts.
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
Pigzooka, please do not take Harry as a good example of a Christian. He's essentially an infant when it comes to literally anything.
Posted by Pigzooka 1 year ago
Pigzooka
Thanks, Harry. I had stuff to do.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
Make you're argument pig man!
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
What are you talking about? How about you cite which forum I supposedly said that I "hated gay people" in? How about that.
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