The Instigator
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
ScarletGhost4396
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points

Gay parenting (resolution in debate)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/14/2012 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,188 times Debate No: 24717
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (31)
Votes (3)

 

16kadams

Con

FULL RESOLUTION: Children raised by homosexual parents are "no different" then ones raised by heterosexual ones.

Cons view -- there are differences
Pros view -- there are NO differences

==>Definitions<==

Gay parenting: homosexual parents raising children like their own
No difference theory: "The widely circulated claim that parents engaged in same-sex relationships do just as well as other parents at raising children—a claim widely known today as the "no differences" thesis (...)"{1}
•••

Rules:

Please no semantics or trolling.
Pro has the BOP, no negotiations here.

==>Format<==

Round one: Pro makes opening case, but NO ARGUNMENTS last round, only a brief summary and conclusion.
Round two: Con rebuts, presenting a case is OPTIONAL as I do not have the bop pro defends.
Round three: con counters, pro defends
Round four: con counters and concludes, pro concludes.

--> On a side note, if you need to put sources outside the debate (i.e. separate debate, comments etc.) that is NOT a Warner for voters to take off points. In other words it's allowed.

Go! Present your case, and convince me... Or try too.

Definition reference:
{1} http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

I affirm the resolution of this debate and stand on the PRO. In this debate, I will attempt to prove that homosexual parents have every possibility to be effective parents as heterosexual ones. My opponent has already set reasonable parameters in this debate, meaning that all I will do is move on to the iteration of my contention.

[Contention]

Contention: Gay parenting has the possibility to produce healthy children.
As much of the newest statistical and scientific evidence points out, gay parents have every potential to produce healthy children as a heterosexual does. This is because the raising of healthy children is dependent on the quality of the parenting provided rather than the sexuality of the pair themselves. This appears to be mostly an evidence debate, so what I will be posting here will be evidence proving this point:
"
Researchers looked at information gleaned from 15 studies on more than 500 children, evaluating possible stigma, teasing and social isolation, adjustment and self-esteem, opposite gender role models, sexual orientation, and strengths.

Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress.

"Some studies showed that single heterosexual parents' children have more difficulties than children who have parents of the same sex," Perrin says. "They did better in discipline, self-esteem, and had less psychosocial difficulties at home and at school."
Another study of 37 children of 27 divorced lesbian mothers and a similar number of children of heterosexual mothers found no differences in behavior, adjustment, gender identity, and peer relationships." [1]

"Gay parents "tend to be more motivated, more committed than heterosexual parents on average, because they chose to be parents," said Abbie Goldberg, a psychologist at Clark University in Massachusetts who researches gay and lesbian parenting. Gays and lesbians rarely become parents by accident, compared with an almost 50 percent accidental pregnancy rate among heterosexuals, Goldberg said. "That translates to greater commitment on average and more involvement."

And while research indicates that kids of gay parents show few differences in achievement, mental health, social functioning and other measures, these kids may have the advantage of open-mindedness, tolerance and role models for equitable relationships, according to some research. Not only that, but gays and lesbians are likely to provide homes for difficult-to-place children in the foster system, studies show." [2]

This evidence provides a counter to APA studies that state otherwise " A review and study published in Social Science Research states that
children raised by same-sex parents are more likely to have lower levels of
incomes, poorer mental and physical health, and higher levels of smoking and
criminality. These findings have sparked controversy on both sides of the
same-sex-marriage debate.


After reviewing studies published between
1980 and 2005 cited by the 2005 official brief on same-sex parenting by the
American Psychological Association (APA), Dr. Loren Marks from Louisiana State
University says that a lot of the evidence that forms the basis of the brief
does not stand up to scrutiny.

Marks explained: "Not a single study has
found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant
respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. The jury is still out on
whether being raised by same-sex-parents disadvantages children. However, the
available data on which the APA draws its conclusions, derived primarily from
small convenience samples, are insufficient to support a strong generalized
claim either way."

According to Marks, over 75% of the 59 studies cited
in the APA brief were based on small, non-representative, non-random samples
that did not include any minority individuals or families. In addition, almost
50% did not include a heterosexual comparison group and only a few analyzed
outcomes that extend beyond childhood, such as income, and educational
attainment.

Marks concludes: "A lack of high quality data leaves the most
significant questions unaddressed and unanswered." [3]

[1] http://www.webmd.com...
[2] http://www.livescience.com...
[3] http://www.medicalnewstoday.com...



Debate Round No. 1
16kadams

Con


As my opponent has the BOP, as stated in round one, therefore whether or not I make a case is optional.



My opponent claims scientific evidence is in his favor



My opponent’s source one cites many studies, though the dates it set up actually work in my favor. It cites studies from the 80’s – the 90’s. Now why is this significant? It is not the dates; well it is, but the accuracy of the studies. These studies are the so-called “consensus” on homosexual parenting studies. But is this claim correct? There is actually no basis for that claim; many of these studies are filled with bias and error in data collecting. Studies have looked into the flaws, one looking into the similar time period my opponents study included (and likely looked into many of the ones the article cites). Examining 21 studies from the data 1981 – 198 they find most of these studies have serious methodology errors or political bias. This challenges the claim that homosexual raise children any differently then heterosexual parents. Many of the studies have one or more of the following problems:




  • Unclear hypothesis or research design

  • Missing or inadequate comparison groups

  • Self-constructed, unreliable and invalid measurements

  • Non-random sample sizes, much of the time other participants asked other friends to join or advertisements put up

  • Samples too small to get any valid results (all studies had this problem except Cameron 1996)

  • Missing or inadequate statistical analysis



The problem with the non-random sample size is that members of certain education or class are more likely to be in the sample, and not represent the average population. It is much more likely that these studies have wealthy and highly educated homosexuals and middle class heterosexual samples leading to an obvious margin of error.[1]



Other studies have also looked into the so-called “consensus” of studies, their results where similar to the study cited above (Lerner, Nagai 2001). Among the critiques we see:




  • There is no nationally representative sample. Most of them are non-random, selective, etc.

  • They also express concern about small sample sizes as homosexuals are a small group, and although many studies have moderately sized samples they too have the non-random problem.

  • And this study has even worse concerns: the outcomes are biased as they only look into psychology and not into the child’s well being like sociologists would look into (many of the unisex parenting advocates arepsychologists).

  • And another great concern is that there is no long term studies, they are all short term. All of them are questions saying how are you now… None of them (or at least ones that claim “no difference”) follow them to adult hood.[2]



As we can see, there is no basis for this claim. As Gallagher notes, “A substantial body of evidence suggests that family structure matters and that children do better, on average, when they are raised by the household of their own married mother and father.”[2]



The second study: why gay parents are better then heterosexual ones



I was able to look into the details of the study, and the thing that stood out was sample size. The study only had 35 lesbian parents, which is extremely small and likely cannot represent the whole homosexual population.[3] So to actually conclude anything we must look at studies that are quite reliable, sadly for my opponent the study I am about to cite has this qualification and shows the opposite conclusion then my opponents study. Now the study got data from a company that is non-biased and is well known for generating the most scholarly and accurate data for studies (gathering data like this prevents biased authors from playing a large role). The company name is Knowledge Networks. The data they collected is representative of the U.S. population, large sample sizes and random samples. This tops most research in the field already. The study found that there are many downsides to homosexual parenting. This includes more likely to be jailed, more likely to be depressed, more likely to have “negative” impacts from their family origin, and if they are female more likely to have multiple sex partners, both male and female. Other findings, which are very important, as they are 10 times more likely to have been sexually touched by a parent or family friend. They have also been found to do drugs illegally more often, smoke, and as the study followed them up in the years (already better then most unisex study conclusions…) have worse lives as adults. i.e. more likely to be unemployed or on public assistance. Although much of this may not be linked to the parenting itself, the researchers noted the main problem was likely parenting from early ages and no matter how you look at it has had some impact on these negative results. They even conclude for much of this the parenting is the main reason for these negative results.[4]



APA remarks



My opponent has actually not read the study, which I looked up to specifically read for this debate. The APA statement actually read, “Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents.” In other words, the APA supports my opponent’s position. The works sections actually are rebutting former research arguing the APA claim. Basically she is showing what my source one and two where arguing in most past research is flawed.[5] My opponents study actually reaches my conclusions. And my opponents source that she used even stated, “A review and study published in Social Science Research (Marks study, not the APA) states that children raised by same-sex parents are more likely to have lower levels of incomes, poorer mental and physical health, and higher levels of smoking and criminality. …” (see opponent source three round one)



As we can see, my opponent actually argued my point and lied (likely unintentionally) about the conclusions about his source.



How did my opponent get confused? Reading comprehension. The bolded title of the article said a review, not the APA pamphlet. The review was talking about the marks study. In other words my opponent showed the study proved my point. The APA’s pamphlet said the other conclusion.



Conclusion:



I am again going to repeat, the reason I have no case, as it is not required as in round one it was agreed upon my opponent had the BOP. Now, as we can see my opponents APA contention is just false and unintentionally a lie and a failure to read the source. It actually proved my point that the no difference theory is bogus and the APA’s claim of no difference is illogical. It also shows all of my opponent’s studies (section 2.1 of the study) are actually false and suffer from many problems and show no conclusions. In other words are scientifically inaccurate and show. So here is the break down:




  1. Studies show mothers and fathers are better parents then homosexual ones

  2. My opponents APA claim misrepresented the results and when looking at the real results proves my point

  3. My opponents first point actually shows very biased or weak studies

  4. The third study had a very small sample size (N=35) and was not replicated by the newest study by Mark Regnerus


Vote CON



[1] Robert Lerner, Ph.D., and Althea K. Nagai, Ph.D. “No Basis: What the Studies Don’t tell us about Same-Sex Parenting,” Marriage Law Project, Washington, D.C. (January 2001)


[2] Maggie Gallagher and Joshua K. Baker “Do Moms and Dads matter? Evidence from the social sciences on family structure and the best interests of the child,” Margins Law Journal (2004)


[3] http://tinyurl.com...


[4] Mark Regnerus, “How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships? Findings from the New Family Structures Study,” Social Science Research Vol 41, Issue 4 (July 2012)


[5] Loren Marks, "Same-sex parenting and children's outcomes: A closer examination of the American Psychological Association's brief on lesbian and gay parenting," Social Science Research Vol 41, Issue 4 (July 2012)


ScarletGhost4396

Pro

Many apologies to my opponent, but I won't be able to finish this debate. If my opponent wants, we can try to debate this topic at another time. For now, however, please vote for my opponent.
Debate Round No. 2
16kadams

Con

I ask for argunment points but ask that conduct goes to my opponent for telling me instead of a forfeit.

And yes I would gladly take this up again.
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

ScarletGhost4396 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
ScarletGhost4396

Pro

ScarletGhost4396 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I am not using semantics
Posted by TheOrator 5 years ago
TheOrator
Looks like Con could easily just semantic outta this, but knowing con he can probably come with something original.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
You gonna respond? You can't FF round one :P
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Cool beans
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
"One of the studies I read even said that the parenting is better for reasons that I won't disclose."

If we were to interpret the statement, the study was mentioned as more of a support, than a simple base or foundation for her belief.

But then again...
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Royals comment said based on one study she read.....
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
REPHRASE: "when have anyone who purported to have a stance ever simply reference or relied upon on one study"?
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
"Also note in the realm of science scholars don't accept a mere one study. Multiple are required."

Since when did anyone who purported to have a stance ever simply reference or relied upon one study???
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
@Maikiru

Lol
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Also note in the realm of science scholars don't accept a mere one study. Multiple are required.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by famer 5 years ago
famer
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited the debate.
Vote Placed by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
16kadamsScarletGhost4396Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: ff