The Instigator
Keithinator
Pro (for)
Tied
30 Points
The Contender
Daxitarian
Con (against)
Tied
30 Points

Gays should be allowed in the US military, openly.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,777 times Debate No: 1739
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (20)

 

Keithinator

Pro

When the thought of not allowing gays in the military first caught my attention I couldn't even think of a reason why they aren't. I looked into it and found weak excuses such as lowered moral and adding distractions to the front and found them to be nonsensical. I am looking forward to seeing other peoples opinions on the matter.
Daxitarian

Con

I really don't care either way, but there is one good argument for not letting people serve in the army and be openly gay:

In order for the military to function, conformity is crucial. All self-expression must be kept to a minimum. You don't sign up for the military to be an individual; you sign up so that they can shave your head and you are just like thousands of others.

So I think for that reason, don't ask; don't tell is a good policy. The more things that can apply to the better.
Debate Round No. 1
Keithinator

Pro

Why do you suppose that gay people cannot conform to military standards such as haircuts or uniforms or other signs of conformity? I am not sure why they cannot conform and also say they are gay? Similar to a straight soldier who wears the uniform and gets the haircut, but also has blue as their favorite color and can say so.
Daxitarian

Con

But it's not the being gay that has to do with the conformity, it has to do with the openness. When you are in a situation where you have to take orders, your concept of you has to be thrown out the window. Blue may well be your favorite color, but you have to wear whatever Uncle Sam tells you too. You may prefer romantic relations with members of the same gender, but, while you are in the uniform, the only relationship that has any relevance to fighting a war is the one between you and what higher-ups think. Every possible way to grind away at your concept of your individuality is a necessity for military activities. There aren't gay soldiers and straight soldiers. There are soldiers, doing whatever they are told. So it isn't about being against homosexuality, it is against being an individual. And that is the nature of government and centralized coercion--to reduce everything to one, to work against a diversification of ends to be pursued.
Debate Round No. 2
Keithinator

Pro

I accept the premise that soldiers in the heat of battle must subordinate all their individuality and fight as anonymous, order-taking cogs in a large war machine. But, when these battle conditions are not in effect (which is most of the time), there is no problem with gays declaring their "gayness" openly, just as any soldier can and should feel free to express any aspect of their individuality openly when the heat if battle is not in effect.
Daxitarian

Con

But it's not just battles that require order taking, it's every part of the military, from when you are trained, to when you are deployed. When off duty, you can do whatever you want, but when you are on duty, it's best that those conversations not be brought up.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
fine then. ask, tell and then see who is banding together in an army unit.
Posted by Keithinator 9 years ago
Keithinator
Gays aren't going to be waltzing through the barracks saying "hey everybody, I'm gay!!!" and straight people talk about their girlfriends indicating that they are straight so they do talk about it.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
i'm pretty sure straight soldiers aren't going around and telling everyone they're straight. why cant gays just keep their mouth shut when theyre in the army? dont ask, dont tell.
Posted by Pat6564 9 years ago
Pat6564
The con is pretty much saying that the army consists of robots and with that kind of thinking why should straight people be able to voice what they believe and not gays, letting them be open about it doesn't mean that they will be forced to say their orientation, it means that they will have the option to without the risk of being discharged.
Posted by danicalifornia 9 years ago
danicalifornia
I think the con side made better arguments, but I have to ask, are we so naive that we actually believe that people in the military are seemingly sexless while they are on duty? Give me a break.
Posted by scottberman 9 years ago
scottberman
Who would you house a male homosexual with: the men, or the women?
Posted by Daxitarian 9 years ago
Daxitarian
Good point, mdb229D, I never thought of DADT from the viewpoint of protecting gays.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
I think the con nailed it. Do gays have to be that prideful to HAVE to state their sexual orientation? The bottom line is that no one in the army cares what sexual orientation you are. You are in the army to serve your country. And honestly, I think gays would be wayyy better off not telling for obvious reasons.
Posted by mdb2290 9 years ago
mdb2290
It's not just about the conformity though. "Don't ask, don't tell" was created to protect gays and lesbians from hate crimes, ostracization, and unfair treatment. Believe it or not, many people in the military dislike homosexuals. Conformity is also a reason, but I was disappointed you didn't point out how it benefits homosexuals. Besides, as John McCain and other experienced soldiers have said, DADT promotes further unity between soldiers, and this is crucial during times of war.
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Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by pazmusik 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by everseeingeye 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
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