The Instigator
mall
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
autismspeaks7112001
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Gender Identity : It's correct to use facilities,restrooms etc, w/o regard to sex but how one feels

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/6/2016 Category: People
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 253 times Debate No: 90786
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

mall

Con

Is it correct to utilize facilities ,restrooms, washrooms, dressing rooms, bathrooms irregardless of one's gender but according to how a person feels about themselves? Anyone up that holds the stance that it is correct and believes there is nothing wrong or faulty with elective gender identification, please step forward. You are cordially invited to participate in a very informative debating session. You will have a chance to explain if you can on how elective gender indentification is more logical than natural , physical , anatomical gender identification. There will not be a fixated or strict structured debate. Anything goes and no research is required, although solid facts can be provided as well. The person/opponent can completely go off of their opinion. They are free to express what they truly believe or what makes sense to them , so forth and so on. Be prepared to be challenged on anything at anytime on any statement presented. Most of all, expect to grow in knowledge, that's hopefully gained from both sides. It'll be the most constructive part of it all , ultimately.
autismspeaks7112001

Pro

I am looking forward to this debate. My first statments open as this. Transgenders need to realize that just because they alter themselves to the opposite sex doesn't mean that it will change their moral way of life and the way that they were originally created. It also affects that God had created them because of the gender that God gave to them. Other than religious beliefs, There are more risks and dangers to transgenders that halt their sense of security and stability. Those who disagree with God's way of creating you and alter themselves are basically giving no regard to His original creation. Also on the other hand, I don't understand why everyone is focused on transgenders, Why not focus on other issues such as unemployment and veteran affairs. The HB2 bill in North Carolina kind of makes clear sense because you should be able to stick to your original gender.
Debate Round No. 1
mall

Con

"Transgenders need to realize that just because they alter themselves to the opposite sex doesn't mean that it will change their moral way of life and the way that they were originally created.": This statement is not relative to the topic . Is it correct to utilize facilities ,restrooms, washrooms, dressing rooms, bathrooms irregardless of one's gender but according to how a person feels about themselves? This question is not relating to God and transgenders , etc. It's understood about how a person may feel or that they believe " it's how God made them". However, the subject here is that a person that wishes to use the ladie's restroom for instance is a physical man that was born a male, is it correct to ignore factual biology and the man adheres to how he perceives his gender? Which in this case he believes he is an actual woman. On the subject of transgenders, it's not so cut and dry. It's not much of a factor to determine on the dividing line or blurred line of do's and dont's in that it can be a very broad range in terms of physical makeup . But what's in question are specific distinct sexes that are clearly seen to belong to each of their gender identifications. They think, feel and act in opposite of their femininity (women) as vice versa with masculinity (men). So is it correct to behave and act according to one's physical, anatomical sex or is it more logical and correct to conduct one's self according to the nature of one's mind? If so, please explain , in terms of common sense, principles, everyday life.
autismspeaks7112001

Pro

Well, as a witness said in the comments "No one should not be able to FORCE others to go along with something they "feel." Just because they mutilate their bodies, they still have the same chromosomes they had at birth. Therefore, a man is still a man and woman is still a woman, no matter how they feel.
A man who now has a vagina should not be allowed to force women to share a bathroom with him, and expect them to be comfortable with that." The decisions that a transgender makes is not fully complete because of the original chromosomes that they were given .
Debate Round No. 2
mall

Con

So basically the way you see it, it is incorrect to have a mind of the opposite gender that does not match up to the person's physical make up . As mentioned , it is not right to force persons to go along with the way one or others feel. Also it is what is considered violation of a person's privacy and rights, a person can feel strongly against sharing facilities with individuals who are phyiscally the inappropriate sex to use the facility such as a restroom. For instance, a woman that works as a waitress can firmly make a legal case that they will not share a restroom, locker room, etc. with men who feel and behave like they are women. The woman can make a case against the freedom of gender identification. A mother can make a similar case with her five year old daughter not wanting her to use the same bathroom with little boys that are encouraged by their parents to wear dresses. Once we get away from a strict criteria , theres nothing to keep us from getting lost into confusion. So once more, are you pointing out that genetically, our genders are fixated, determined and ongoing no matter the outward appearance, is that right?
autismspeaks7112001

Pro

That is basically what I am explaining. The personal belief of what their gender is does not matter, rather the chromosomes and genetic makeup you recieve decides what gender you are, even if you alter yourself to your personal feelings of what you are. The chromosomes are like a record, it can't be modified but it keeps the makeup that you have for a lifetime.
Debate Round No. 3
mall

Con

In that case, why do you think people believe they can overwrite that genetic makeup based on how they feel? Where does it stem from and can this be the ultimate argument on how homosexuality is botched in the same way? As we can see ,sexuality is taken out of order and people attractions shift on how they gender identify. Whether a male that feels like a female is attracted to another male and vice-versa. We can see an ever continuing pattern of mind over physical matter. As the goverment amends the laws of the land, they accomodate more on visceral terms. Excluding more and more of the facts and the correct order of things. This "mind over physical matter " as I call it is being brought on to small children. Small children that don't even have a full concept of sexuality are being saturated with the notion and behavior of deviating the true sexual identity . I remember at one time, small children played and acted as their parents. Maybe the boy would try on the mother's high heel shoes, etc. That was treated as cute, playful and innocent. Now I've seen interviews about parents supporting these behaviors as reality in terms of sensible life long behaviors and not just simple child's play . What do you think about all that?
autismspeaks7112001

Pro

What I personally think of your "mind over physical matter" theory is that the mind can tell your body what you are in regards to your gender identity, but as I stated before, Your chromosomes and genetic makeup technically make up who you are and what your gender is. But in regards to your statement about "Small children that don't even have a full concept of sexuality are being saturated with the notion and behavior of deviating the true sexual identity ", I would agree that the way that small children learn from older generations because of their behavior. But when it comes to gender identity, A child could be influenced to figure out their gender identity or possibly
Debate Round No. 4
mall

Con

Mind over physical matter or makeup is not a theory , it's a reality . How else would it be that one's mentalitity is out of sync with their body? Have a mind with masculine thoughts with a female person or body . Likewise , one would have a mind with feminine thoughts with a male person or body. That's total perplexity and it's to the zone where that being can't get any more confused than that. They have reached maximum confusion . Now in reference to children . Should a child be influenced to figure out what their gender is ? Which in ways of discovering it or should the child be taught and programmed from day one with the capability of comprehension what their gender is? Next, what do you expect the result to be of all this elective gender identity behavior? Do you see more laws getting passed to support this matter of bathroom usage for either side , either sex or the reverse? More laws getting repealed . Will sex change operations be as frequent as cavity filling procedures?
autismspeaks7112001

Pro

"Should a child be influenced to figure out what their gender is ?" No, but in the case that you ste about the laws being repealed to support the bathroom usage, I believe that they are only repealing them to agree that the laws are discriminatory when rea;;y is trying to influence the safety of transgenders and prevent the rates of rape from increasing. I expect the results of the "elective gender identity behavior" to influence government officials to make laws that not necessarily restrict gender transformation surgeries but control how frequent they can occur.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by autismspeaks7112001 9 months ago
autismspeaks7112001
possibly modifiy it.
Posted by Heirio 9 months ago
Heirio
Pro's argument seems to hinge on God.

Who has never been proven to exist.

So that argument is easily refuted.
Posted by raquelhs 9 months ago
raquelhs
No one should not be able to FORCE others to go along with something they "feel." Just because they mutilate their bodies, they still have the same chromosomes they had at birth. Therefore, a man is still a man and woman is still a woman, no matter how they feel.
A man who now has a vagina should not be allowed to force women to share a bathroom with him, and expect them to be comfortable with that.
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