The Instigator
benshapirohero
Pro (for)
The Contender
Samcoder1
Con (against)

Gender is unalterable- transgenders are misguided

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Debate Round Forfeited
Samcoder1 has forfeited round #3.
Our system has not yet updated this debate. Please check back in a few minutes for more options.
Time Remaining
00days00hours00minutes00seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 366 times Debate No: 94636
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

benshapirohero

Pro

I'm new to this, so go EZ on me! ;)

Well, I'll get right down to it then.
1. We're born either female or male.
2. Both genders differ significantly. (Think chromosomes, genitalia, brain structure)
3. There's no changing you're genetic makeup.
4. So gender is unalterable.

A transgender with false beliefs about his/herself suffers from a delusion, and may have an underlying mental illness.
(Think of an anorexic who thinks they're fat when they're really not.)

The right thing to do is not indulge transgenders' delusions, just as we shouldn't tell anorexics they're fat.

Lastly, everyone is equal, so transgenders should also be treated with love, compassion, and affection.
Samcoder1

Con

Thank you for hosting this debate.

Numerous studies including one by Antonio Guillamon demonstrated that the brains of transsexuals do somewhat resemble that of the genders they assume. (https://www.newscientist.com...)

It is possible that their brain structure is not caused by genetics but rather particular conditions in the womb. Regardless we all share this fact in common, and so should not claim 'mental illness' as a consequence.

There is nothing delusional about transsexuals, as the gender they choose to be is not an irrational belief but the product of a different brain structure. Consequently not only is it cruel, but it is factually incorrect to portray transsexuals as insane.
Debate Round No. 1
benshapirohero

Pro

"It is possible that their brain structure is not caused by genetics but rather particular conditions in the womb."
Genes play an enormous role in how our brain develops. As you might imagine, the blueprints (genes) for male and female brains are very different. I can't stress enough how important genes are to cerebral development.

"Consequently not only is it cruel, but it is factually incorrect to portray transsexuals as insane."
First, I never said transgenders are insane. I said they may be mentally ill.
Secondly, denying a group of people treatment for a real problem is much more cruel than possibly offending them.
Third, there's no shame in being mentally ill. I've got my own head problems, but I don't tear myself up about it.
Samcoder1

Con

Indeed genes are very important, however this has nothing to do with the debate. The idea that one can have the brain of the opposite sex will either be caused by environmental factors or genetics, regardless of which one it is, transsexuals are not 'misguided'. It isn't like they have been tricked or brainwashed. Consequently your referral to delusion is factually wrong.

A definition of 'insane' is 'severely mentally ill', which is basically what you said:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

The debate here is 'Gender is unalterable...' which as we have established is not true given the clear physiological differences between trans and cis people, and the influential role the womb plays in development.
Debate Round No. 2
benshapirohero

Pro

"Indeed genes are very important, however this has nothing to do with the debate."
Genes determine a person's sex. So... since sex and gender are linked, genes determine one's gender.
Anyone who disputes their own biological state of mind suffers from a delusion.

"A definition of 'insane' is 'severely mentally ill', which is basically what you said:"
Basically what I said is not what I said.

"The debate here is 'Gender is unalterable...' which as we have established is not true given the clear physiological differences between trans and cis people, and the influential role the womb plays in development."
You're contradicting yourself. You said gender is unalterable "given the clear physiological differences."
I thought gender is social.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Samcoder1 9 months ago
Samcoder1
Apologies, I was away in London.

'Anyone who disputes their own biological state of mind suffers from a delusion.'

Indeed this is true, however as I established, biological state of mind is different to genetic sex. Biological state of mind is caused by the brain, which is different in transsexuals.

As for insane, you said mentally ill. Given that insane is 'severely mentally ill', you are saying transsexuals are at least a bit insane.

I never said that gender is unalterable, I actually said it is alterable given that one's gender is not solely related to the X and Y chromosomes. You conceded this yourself when you referred to the 'biological state of mind'. It certainly isn't social either. Gender is caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors, as is established by the physiological differences in transsexuals.

Please use this as my debate, and I apologise for missing the deadline.
Posted by Snipetigger 9 months ago
Snipetigger
"There is no changing your genetic makeup."
No you can't change the code you were born with but you can change how the genes are expressed (the field of epigenetics). Let's play pretend: a pretend code AGGGTAAAA normally codes for the over-development of the aggressiveness center in the brain and a pretend code for ACGTTAA normally codes for a large slutty center in the brain. Environmental factors in the womb, perhaps the mom was doing cocaine, smoking or was emotionally distressed changes how AGGGTAAA is expressed and how ACGTTAA is expressed. Now you have a baby with the codes for beating the shite out of people and sleeping aroun who ends up being a passive sexually conservative individual.
Posted by Samcoder1 9 months ago
Samcoder1
Sure, although 1500 characters really isn't that long, and makes things so much easier. I can barely even cite websites as the links are too long.
Posted by benshapirohero 9 months ago
benshapirohero
Haha!
I see a lot of debates so long that I want to bang my head against the wall.
Posted by Samcoder1 9 months ago
Samcoder1
Also, why host a debate with such a small character limit? It's very difficult to present my case.
This debate has 4 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.