The Instigator
Spedman
Pro (for)
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The Contender
PatrickButler
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

General Patton Was Overall A Better General Than Montgomery And MacArthur

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 884 times Debate No: 61714
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
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Spedman

Pro

There are many disputes as to who was the best General during WWII. The Generals that stand out the most are George Patton, Douglas MacArthur, and Bernard Montgomery. This debate will focus on the accomplishments of each General, and I will be debating that Patton was the best out of these three. In all honesty I do not like MacArthur or Montgomery. MacArthur focused too much on his political status, and Monty was too slow to react and adjust when things didn't go according to plan during a battle.
Patton was a man who had a very flawed character. However, the man was a living god when it came to battle. He knew right where to hit the enemy and he hit them with everything he had. He helped turn the tide of the North African campaign for the Americans, drove the Germans out of Sicily, and carved a path into Germany. He had his flaws, but he could definitely win battles.
PatrickButler

Con

Hello everyone! Today I'll be the con for this debate. And I wish my opponent spedman the best of luck! Now, as you may know General Patton was a great strategist but I believe that MacArthur, and Montgomery were great strategists as well. Keep in mind that I'm mainly going to be talking about Montgomery and not so much MacArthur (because I can >:) ). Anyway a few reasons why I think these two generals are great are #1. Montgomery's epic victory over the Desert fox (Erwin Rommel). In my opinion this was a BIG DEAL that Erwin Rommel was pushed out of Egypt and sent back to Tripoli and up to Tunisia. Sure, Patton did help in the western side of Africa but Montgomery did most of the work. When the Americas join the war, they lost row after row of battles in Africa under Patton's command. Sure, they got there act together but Montgomery was the main force that kicked Rommel out of Africa.
# 2.Why wasn't Patton in the D-Day invasion? The D-Day invasion or operation overlord was a HUGE turning point in the war and was what basically ended Hitler's so called one thousand year Reich. So why wasn't Patton involved in this event? If he was such a great strategist then why was he not in command of any of the invasions? #3.The Philippines!!!!! Tomoyuki Yamashita, a kind of famous kind of not famous Japanese General, had a very strong grip on the Philippines. So for MacArthur to kick the Japaneses out of that big island was a BIG deal! (hehehe).
#4. The fact the Patton was not chosen command in the Korean War. That's right! Were going into THE COLD WAR!!!!! When the Korean war started guess who didn't get chosen to command an army Patton ): . As a matter of fact it was MacArthur who was in command of most of the American troops. That is until he came up with that CRAZY plan...... but we won't talk about that......... That's all I'm going to give for the moment so now I throw it back to Spedman!
Debate Round No. 1
Spedman

Pro

Okay, first I am going to talk about Patton and what made him great and counter some of Con's arguments. You say that Patton suffered many defeats against Rommel in North Africa. I am sorry, but that statement is false.
During the beginning of the North African campaign General Eisenhower put Patton in charge of taking the western flank in Morocco around Casablanca. The resistance there was of Vichy(loyal to Germany) French forces and although the resistance was fierce Patton took Morocco very quickly. How quick? The landings commenced on November 8th, 1942 and an armistice was signed with the commander of the French forces almost immediately after taking Casablanca. That happened November 11, 1942. The Sultan of Morocco was so impressed by Patton that he awarded him with the Order of Ouissam Alaouite. An award only given by the Sultan himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Patton was not in charge of the American forces(U.S II Corps) that suffered the heavy defeats against Rommel, most notably Kasserine Pass. They were under the command of Major General Lloyd Fredendall who was replaced by Patton on March 6, 1943. After vigorously training them for ten days the II Corps achieved nothing but victory all the way to Tunis.

The reason Patton was not participating in the D-Day invasion was mostly because of his recent bad behavioral choices which was one of his greatest flaws. He was put in charge of the distraction "dummy" force that deceived the Germans into thinking Patton would lead the bulk of the invasion at Pas de Calais. It ended up working and the Germans failed to anticipate the invasion in Normandy.

As the gentleman in the comments pointed out(I already knew what you said by the way) Patton was killed as a result of a car accident on December 21,1945. Unfortunately, Patton could not live to fight in Korea not that it would have mattered he was stripped of his command on September 28, 1945.

Patton defeated nearly everything in his path including the Herman Goering Division in Sicily. His constant aggression against the German army made them fearful of him. He never hesitated when things didn't go according to plan he just kept going.

Now as for dear old Monty and Dug-Out Doug. Let me start by saying that El Alamein was a great victory over Rommel, but that was pretty much the only good thing Monty accomplished during the war. Even El Alamein itself was due to a huge numerical advantage over Rommel. Montgomery had many more troops under his command than Rommel he could have easily destroyed the Afrika Corps had he counter-attacked sooner after the first few engagements with Rommel and was heavily criticized for it. The Sicily campaign was ultimately his plan, and there were many casualties along the way and a long dragged out campaign.

Now for Monty's biggest failures that should have made him a disgrace. Montgomery planned the D-Day invasions and was in overall command during the initial invasion. The beach landings either came under heavy fire or completely missed their landings. The Airborne drops scattered all over Normandy with many men fighting with different units. Almost none of the goals planned were met that day. It was only due to the bravery of the men fighting that they made any gains at all. I know all of this stuff wasn't initially Monty's fault, but the man failed to adjust to the new situation which cost many lives. He personally led the assault on Caen which was thought by Monty to be secured on D-Day. However, they faced heavy resistance and Monty once again failed to adjust and come up with an effective strategy. The battle went on for almost three months, but it was only due to constant Allied bombardment that weakened the Germans considerably in order to finally take Caen. Monty's incompetence heavily slowed the Allies advance across Europe.

Now for his biggest failure of all, Operation Market Garden. Monty's plan was to drop paratroopers American and British into Holland and send in tanks to support them. This was in order to flank the German Army and have the war ended by Christmas. A good strategy except no Allied force was engaging the German Army (to distract them) while this was happening. The Germans were quickly able to realize what was happening and crushed the Allies advance from Holland. Intelligence reports were sent to Montgomery there were too many German troops, but he ignored them. 17,000 casualties were reported and the British 1st Airborne was wiped out. This should have had Monty relieved, but the Allies held onto him.

Monty was so obsessed with his career he failed to react when his plans didn't work and he just pulled back. In his diary he never owned up to his mistakes and always blamed it on someone else. Monty come never keep up and that is what makes Patton better.

Now its Dougy's turn. MacArthur like I said had more interest in politics than in actually fighting a war. When Pearl Harbor was attacked MacArthur was immediately notified and was told a Japanese attack was imminent. Naturally this would have persuaded him to prepare and have everyone on high alert, wrong. Nine hours later and the Japanese attacked wiping out the airfields within minutes. Now wait a minute, he had nine hours to prepare and had radar why were his planes still on the ground? MacArthur spread his troops way too thin on the Philippines and the American defenses were overwhelmed. The defense was ultimately a disaster for the Americans with Americans suffering many more casualties than the Japanese despite having more troops than the Japanese. MacArthur was ordered to evacuate and he complied without hesitation. He falsely received the Medal of Honor for his ultimately terrible defense of the Philippines. He failed to take the Japanese seriously and his men paid a heavy price for his arrogance.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

MacArthur developed the strategy of island-hopping which was a solid plan. However, almost every island we hit was well-defended and strategically useless. Yesterday was the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Peleliu which I'm assuming you haven't heard of. MacArthur ordered the 1st Marine Division to secure the island in order to protect his flank during the Philippine invasion and use its airfield which he said was "vital". The fighting was said to only last a few days, but it lasted two months with one of the highest American casualty rates of the war. After the island was secured it was never used by MacArthur once. Almost 7,000 casualties over a useless island.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

MacArthur's invasion was a success, but it was very costly. MacArthur's island-hopping was poorly planned and resulted in many American casualties, but the man was praised for it.

Now as for Korea he did do well against the the initial North Korean resistance, but his arrogance took things too far and ended up bringing in Chinese reinforcements which quickly drove MacArthur back. The man went absolutely nuts and suggested a nuclear strike against China. He was sacked and ran for President against Eisenhower but lost(thank god). After MacArthur was relieved the UN forces pushed the Chinese and Koreans back across the border and made the smart decision to stop.

Patton ultimately was able to accomplish more than these guys and overcame his arrogance and ego in order to defeat his enemies. Something Monty and Doug failed to accomplish.
PatrickButler

Con

PatrickButler forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Spedman

Pro

Spedman forfeited this round.
PatrickButler

Con

PatrickButler forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Spedman 2 years ago
Spedman
Yeah, I understand and yes I know my history very well my friend. I love learning about World War II. To answer your question about Patton and why he wasn't in the Pacific. Patton started mouthing off about how we couldn't trust the Soviets and started warmongering about them. He also allowed some Nazis to remain in their political offices. I made a slight error he was officially relieved October 8. Patton had overstayed his welcome in the U.S Army and I understand why he needed to be removed. Patton was a great general because he refused to let up on the enemy, and kept driving them back. Doug and Monty could never keep up with the war effort that is why they weren't good.
Posted by PatrickButler 2 years ago
PatrickButler
Hello Spedman! I'm very sorry to inform you that I will not be able to continue this, because I have a camping field trip :/. But it's not like I was going to win anyway!!!! You sir, were prepared! Anyway, if you want when I come back we can have a rematch or something. Thank you for understanding :)
Posted by PatrickButler 2 years ago
PatrickButler
I should have also talked about how they didn't let him command after Europe surrendered and every one went over to the pacific :/ . o well.....
Posted by PatrickButler 2 years ago
PatrickButler
Patton died after the war ended, and those quotes are pretty interesting!
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
con: if my memory is correct, Patton was killed in a car accident before the war ended. That could be a good reason he was not chosen for the Korean war.

And as far as D-Day goes,he was enmeshed in driving from the south.And I think D-Day would have fared better under Patton.He might have waited till the weather cleared.

One thing he said that struck me. He said," we do not win wars by dying for our country. We win wars by making the other guy die for his country.And another thing he said. " A war is not over till your enemey says it is."
Posted by Spedman 2 years ago
Spedman
Well, for now just outline what you will be debating with me on and explain why you think otherwise. I'm glad someone actually wants to debate with me on this.
Posted by PatrickButler 2 years ago
PatrickButler
hello spedman! I'm happy to accept this debate! Do you want me to say that I accept the debate or just go right in to it?
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