The Instigator
beyonder123
Pro (for)
The Contender
hfordney
Con (against)

Geometry will never be used in my life.

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/17/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 249 times Debate No: 96201
Debate Rounds (5)
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Votes (0)

 

beyonder123

Pro

While attending my freshman year of high school, it has come to my attention, that very little, if any of what i am learning, will ever be used in my future. The very things that schools push on us, such as reflections, dilation's, and rotations, will never be applied. What i mean is that i don't need to know anything i am learning in this class to succeed in life.
hfordney

Con

Of course it is going to depend on what you choose to do for a career. I personally use geometry every day at work as a welder fabricator. If you have any interest in engineering, manufacturing, architecture, or a building trade you will use concepts from geometry daily. Maybe you don't have any interests in these fields, so really will never find a use for geometry. However I'll also say that simply the time spent doing math is going to improve your ability doing all math, which is fundamental for other disciplines too like finance, accounting, actuary, data science, hard sciences, etc. Well but then maybe you'll say you just want to be a musician, a writer, a nurse, or something else that doesn't even include math. Maybe that will be the case, maybe not. I'll tell you now that I am doing something totally different than I thought I would be doing when I was your age, and it is the courses I least expected to be useful that came in the most handy. They say that the average person in your (nearly my) generation will work something like three to five or more jobs in their lifetime. The possibility there means that you will likely use geometry or be forced to work with someone daily who uses it heavily who needs you to basically understand it. So. Wouldn't write it off completely. Compared to something like Latin or cursive handwriting you're clearly getting more useful knowledge with geometry.
Debate Round No. 1
beyonder123

Pro

Though in some fields it may be appropriate to learn geometry, is it worth government dollars to pay for a student to learn something it is very likely he will never use? If one decides he does want to become an engineer, why learn it in high school, when he will probably re-learn it in college? As you can see, it seems quite worthless to teach geometry to a large majority of students that will probably never choose such a specific life path.
hfordney

Con

Ok. Well, I gave many cases above where geometry is actually used on a day-to-day basis. Manufacturing, engineering, architecture and construction are $billion industries that employ probably a close to a third of the population. Financial, insurance and accounting services which heavily utilize math employ even more. In fact it's difficult to think of what useful jobs wouldn't require some geometry (whether in practice, or as a stepping stone to other kinds of math). Healthcare? Academia? So it clearly isn't useless.

But I suppose if there were something more critical that might take its place, then we could question its worth. Off the top of my head, high school students ought to know more about computers and personal finance. I also think America has neglected the importance of vocational education, metal and woodworking among other things. Not sure why CNC machining isnt taught to highschool students who want it (at least any I know of). Of course they would have to know geometry to even operate CNC.

So there are other things a high school student ought to learn that are more important than geometry, I'll admit. And if it's a matter of cutting some programs for the sake of others, it might be worth it for the sake of getting young people jobs. In that case though, geometry should be kept around a lot longer than, let me think: history, psychology, biology, chemistry, physics, foreign language, higher english classes, just to name a few.

For the reasons I said above and in my last post, geometry can be quite useful for many professions and doesnt deserve the chopping block until a bunch of much more obviously (comparatively) useless programs kick the bucket. Talent for math can lead to some of the highest paying careers around.

I might ask, what would you prefer to learn? Geometry may benefit you in ways you can't perceive yet. Regardless, there is a great potential for it to be utilized in the skilled trades, engineering, architecture and all kinds of design. May be boring or seeming irrelevant to you, but I wouldn't like to think what might happen if the next generation of potential tradespeople didn't know the difference between a circle and an oval. Think of all of the things around you that required an eye for desitgn and proportion to be made. Your very school itself, every physical product you enjoy would not be possible without geometry. How can you really question its importance?
Debate Round No. 2
beyonder123

Pro

Along with other things, classes that focus on smaller skills that many students don't have would be more beneficial for students. For example, there are many students I know that have the handwriting and spelling skills of a kindergartner. I have never had a class that really focused intensely on computer typing skills, and in my 8th grade class last year, we only were assigned to read 2 very short books on our own. In Junior High, we were READ books. The other two were read to us in class. We could very well remove geometry (which i will remind you will probably be taught to you in any college class you take if your degree you want requires it), and replace it with classes that focus on the above skills. Or at least shorten the math classes or cut a portion of time to teach these skills.
hfordney

Con

You're a highschool freshman? Look, let me give you an unfortunate truth. Geometry is a very basic level of math that is essential in itself or as a stepping stone to math to any degree or job outside of a mcdonalds after highschool. It is not something that a student can be expected to learn at college, even if you are doing something ENTIRELY outside of the realm of math (I'm talking Women Studies majors too). I am a community college math tutor. I work with first year students here who, if they are as behind as you are suggesting, would be knee deep in s*** (pardon my french). Because these students then would be in programs where they are expected to work up from whereever they are to advanced algebra and trigonometry in fifteen weeks. That's the equivalent of three years of material if they have never taken geometry. Again, this is for everyone, pre-nursing, electronic technician, creative writing, anything.

Not to mention that geometry is on the ACT, SAT and GED, standardized tests that determine whether you get into college in the first place. Geometry is probably some of the easiest math on the ACT, there is also trig and high algebra, even pre-calculus.

And what's worse my friend about what you are saying, I have empathy for you, but it is this: You say you have friends and/or know people who can't spell or read at a decent level in high school? Now granted, there are people of all reading levels and I know many adults who can't spell to save their life. But highschool cannot be dumbed down to the point where everyone might avoid geometry so these kids can be left to practice basic reading comprehension at 15 years old. To do so would be a massive disservice to students of higher ability (and probably work ethic), and even barring that, would fail to prepare students for the real world.

It's OK to not be ready for geometry, that is totally acceptable (at least within a school). If a student can't handle basic algebra and arithmetic, they need to cover that before moving on to harder subjects. If they have trouble with reading comprehension, they need to be in a remedial reading class. But they will need to eventually to pass geometry if they have even the slightest hope of getting into college (or tradeschool).

And when I said "within a school", that's right. Because in the real world, those kids are way behind, or would be way behind if they never got through in geometry in high school. We can lower the bar at school, but for every students peril, because technology and economy (competitive labor market) is advancing with or without you. That's the hard truth my friend. Learn geometry. Get to calculus if you can. If there are people around you struggling, that's a teacher's problem, not yours. And geometry is certainly NOT going anywhere.
Debate Round No. 3
beyonder123

Pro

Alright, I know when I'm beat. Your argument was great and I actually totally agree with you. (This was for a school project I'm working on about how geometry will be used in my life.) Thanks for the ideas and feedback. :)
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
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