The Instigator
policydebategod
Con (against)
Losing
60 Points
The Contender
Phil
Pro (for)
Winning
142 Points

George Bush is a good president

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,733 times Debate No: 607
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (46)

 

policydebategod

Con

George Bush has destroyed our nation.
1. He implimented No Child Left Behind, overcrowding our good schools and still leaving our bad schools to be bad.
2. He created the Iraq War for the purpose of finding weapons of mass destruction, stopping terrorism, and promoting democracy. They vote, they have no WMDs, and terrorism will NEVER be stopped, and Iraq has nothing to do with it.
3. He lowered out economy significantly, lower than most African nations.
4. He raised gas prices, making transport difficult.
5. He created the Patriot Act, making our constitution invalid and thereby creating a catalyst to destroy our entire constitution. If the terrorists threaten our free speech, then we will revoke that, etc. Who is to say that we will get rid of freedom of religion and convert everybody into muslims after the next 9/11.
6. He failed to do ONE good thing for America.
Phil

Pro

Hey policydebategod,

Thanks for challenging me to this debate. Forgive my presumption, but you sound very angry at George W. Bush. I'm hoping we can both put aside our emotions and have a logical, fact-based debate on the topic.

In response to your arguments:

1. No Child Left Behind has not created overcrowding in our schools. Before Bush even became President, overcrowding has been at the forefront of the educational debate. If you have some facts that support this claim, I will entertain them.

2. Iraq may have had nothing to do with 9/11, but that's not why we went there. We went to war in Iraq as a preemptive strategy. Going to Iraq was approved by Congress because our intelligence, and the intelligence from our allies all pointed to the likelihood that Sadaam Hussein was helping terrorists, and rebuilding his weapons of mass destruction. Our post 9/11 strategy is to remove those in power who support terrorism in order to minimize the likelihood of another 9/11. I'm not sure why trying to protect the nation he serves would make President Bush a bad president in your eyes. Perhaps you can expand on this item also.

3. I have no idea to what you're referring when you say, "He lowered out economy significantly, lower than most African nations." Please explain further.

4. Gas prices are set by the market, not the government. President Bush cannot wake up and decide that he wants gas prices to be $3.00 per gallon. We, the consumers, decide gas prices based on our demand for oil, and the current supply available. Gas companies have a finite supply of oil at any given time, and therefore must either raise or lower the price. Any power our government has over gas prices is really limited to the taxes it places on fuel. That is something mostly controlled by the Congress, states and local bureaucracies.

5. "Congress enacted the Patriot Act by overwhelming, bipartisan margins, arming law enforcement with new tools to detect and prevent terrorism: The USA Patriot Act was passed nearly unanimously by the Senate 98-1, and 357-66 in the House, with the support of members from across the political spectrum." (1) At no point is our Constitution invalid because of the Patriot Act. If you have some documentation citing the void of our Constitution, please provide as I would definitely like to see it.

6. George W. Bush has done several good things for America. First, his presidency gave of several years of Will Ferrell's SNL George Bush character, which by many accounts is quite hilarious. And since laughter is a good thing, how can you possibly claim he has done nothing good. Oh yeah, he also kicked the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan and removed Sadaam Hussein from power. If you're not sure why Hussein was such a bad guy, please read the following link. http://www.thesmokinggun.com...

(1) http://www.lifeandliberty.gov...
Debate Round No. 1
policydebategod

Con

1. I went to Chamblee High where there were too many classrooms, and very few students. The year NCLB was passed, they added 7 trailers, kids were learning in storage closets, they hired new, less qualified teachers and our average test scores dropped by 90 points. I am proof that NCLB hurts good schools and the bad schools get the same poor funding and bad students as they had before. NOBODY WINS.

2. Bush is not accomplishing anything in Iraq. He set 3 goals preventing terrorism, promoting democracy and finding WMDs. Iraq has not accomplished any of these except debatably, democracy. Anything that Bush will accomplish, he has accomplished. And he can not stop terrorists through Iraq. There are multiple havens for terrorists, try the entire third world.

3. He lowered our economy to an unreasonable low. He lowered the employment rate, the USD amount compared to EUROs, he cut funding from several necessary programs like veteran health care and added billions to the Iraq budget, the real estate market dropped, and more.

4. He could have gone to the oil reserves, improved relations with OPEC, regulated prices. This is why prices were so low while Clinton was in office.

5. The PATRIOT Act allows the government to not use warrants, they can listen in on our phones, technology and lives, they can put an aleged terrorist in prison indefintely without a trial and Presudent Bush supported this bill. He gave speeches supporting it.

6. He did not kick radical Muslims out of power in Afghanistan and Iraq!!!
He removed a dictator from power in place of a "president" who is in charged of a failed state, with civil wars, a corrput police, a corrupt militia, and a replaced it with a territory controlled from around the world.

YU HAVE NO OFFENSIVE POINTS AND HAVE FAILED TO DEFEND YOURSELF ON ONE DEFENSIVE POINT!!! I WIN!!!
Phil

Pro

Slow down there policydebategod…we still have 2 more rounds. When I built Debate.org, I decided not to run it like a dictatorship, but rather by the will of the community. They are the ones who get to decide the winner with their votes, not you or me. Furthermore, I'm not sure how you expect to win when you make outrageous statements like, "He…created the Patriot Act, making our constitution invalid," and "He failed to do ONE good thing for America." These statements do nothing more than give away your clear hatred for a man you don't even know. In addition, none of your statements are backed up by any facts. They are completely opinion based, and some of them are so untrue, that I'm not going to even waste my time disputing them.

This debate is about whether or not George Bush is a good president, or a bad one, as indicated by the topic. If I am to understand your arguments, you believe he is a bad president because he pushed a bill to improve the schools, started a war in Iraq to hunt down terrorists and their supporters, personally destroyed the economy and the dollar, raised gas prices, and null and voided our constitution.

I would argue that George W. Bush is a very good president because of the following:

He is honest, unlike our last president whom you cited in the last round. I'll bet that you cannot point to a single lie George Bush has told the American people. I know what you're thinking, "he lied about WMDs in Iraq." We all know that our president, along with Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, France, and Great Britain all believed Iraq had WMDs, so don't bother going there. If you are truly intellectually honest, you would admit that George W. Bush is a man of his word. He says what he believes, and believes what he says. If you believe Bill Clinton was a good president, then you must also believe that a man who can point his finger and lie to your face in order to circumvent the rule of law is good leader. I would argue that the guidelines you use when determining a good president are therefore seriously flawed.

George Bush has done more than any other president in history to protect our nation from terrorists. Unlike our last president who nearly decimated our military through funding cuts, ignored every terrorist attack against our allies, military, and citizens, President Bush has rebuilt the military and taken the fight to our enemies in order to protect your right to say these horrible things about him. This unequivocally qualifies him as a "good president".

Finally, President Bush doesn't put his finger in the air and determine policy matters by public opinion. He pushes legislation that he believes will better the country. That is the sign of a true and good leader. Bill Clinton was the most neutered president I've ever seen in my 31-years. He was unable to do anything productive because he didn't want to upset a portion of the country. George Bush on the other hand decided that part of his responsibility as President is to try and improve the country. NCLB is one such example that you have cited, albeit a bad policy in your opinion. In my opinion, it is a much needed policy. When I went to high school, teachers were passing students that couldn't read and write at a competent level. NCLB will clearly fix this problem, by forcing teachers and school administrators to get these students up to par if they want their funding. Tough love hurts sometimes, but this is in my opinion a very effective strategy. I have a feeling you dislike NCLB because your current teachers are affected by it. If your teachers are every bit as incompetent as mine were, then I understand why. With a policy like NCLB, the bad teachers should be worried. It's high time we abolish the teachers unions so we can fire these bad teachers, but that's another debate. I would like to know from you how often your teachers openly trash NCLB, just as a side note. We'd all like to know from whom a 14-year old gets the idea that NCLB is so bad.

I must admit that I'm more than a little confused about your statements regarding NCLB. On your profile, you're listed as 14-years of age, yet in round 2 you stated, "I went to Chamblee High where there were too many classrooms, and very few students. The year NCLB was passed, they added 7 trailers, kids were learning in storage closets, they hired new, less qualified teachers and our average test scores dropped by 90 points." As I recall, students enter high school at/around age 14. If that's the case, you're telling me that in your first year of high school, NCLB was so bad that your school went from completely vacant to completely overcrowded? Much like your previous arguments, it just doesn't hold any water.

To sum it up, I believe George W. Bush is a good president because he is honest, he is proactively protecting our country from terrorist threats, and because he pushes legislation he believes in, not bills to make him popular. In other words, his concerns are those for the betterment of America, not his personal legacy. As far as I can tell, he could care less what the media thinks of him, he's going to continue working for America to try and improve some of the problems we all face.
Debate Round No. 2
policydebategod

Con

- nobody said that you or i would decide the debate.

- "He…created the Patriot Act, making our constitution invalid," "He failed to do ONE good thing for America." These statements do nothing more than give away your clear hatred for a man you don't even know.
+ My job as a debater is to DEBATE!!! When I say he created it, i mean that he was responsibile for the creation of it by promoting and signing the bill.

- In addition, none of your statements are backed up by any facts. They are completely opinion based, and some of them are so untrue, that I'm not going to even waste my time disputing them.
+ In debate, that means that you conceed that argument. I think that this is unfair that I use my time to make valid arguments and you are too incompetent to make good points.

- I'll bet that you cannot point to a single lie George Bush has told the American people.
+ Not only does he lie but about TORTURE among other things:
We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do ... to that end in this effort, any activity we conduct, is within the law. We do not torture." - President Bush (Nov. 7, 2005).
THE FACTS
The State Department's annual report on human rights practices worldwide has condemned countries such as Burma and North Korea for the disappearance and indefinite detention of political prisoners without trial; while also condemning Libya, Syria and other countries for engaging in acts of torture that include hooding, stripping detainees naked, sleep deprivation, subjecting detainees to extremes of heat, cold, noise and light, threatening them with dogs, submerging them in water to simulate drowning — which is known as water-boarding — and other acts of physical abuse all of which have occured at U.S. detention facilities. See State Dept. Study Cites Torture of Prisoners: Rumself Approved Similar Practices (Washington Post March 10, 2005).

President Bush: "Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to strike America, to attack us. I would have used very resource, every asset, every power of this government to protect the American people." (03.25.04)
THE FACTS
Condoleezza Rice was the top National Security official with President Bush at the July 2001 G-8 summit in Genoa. There, "U.S. officials were warned that Islamic terrorists might attempt to crash an airliner" into the summit, prompting officials to "close the airspace over Genoa and station antiaircraft guns at the city's airport."

In his October 6th speech on the War on Terror at National Endowment for Democracy, President Bush said"The United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al Qaeda terrorist plots since September the 11th, including three al Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States.
THE FACTS
The plots that Bush claimed his administration disrupted actually had already been abandoned by the time they were discovered.

Bush: "leaves no doubt that . . . Iraq . . . continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
There are no WMDs.

BUSH: We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. [Bush on Polish TV, 5/29/03]

During his Veteran's Day 2005 address, Bush charged that " . . more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. "
THE FACTS
The Washington Post extensively analyzed this claim, concluding that: "Bush and his aides had access to much more voluminous intelligence information than did lawmakers, who were ependent on the administration to provide the material…Bush does not share his most sensitive intelligence,

If you are truly intellectually honest, you would admit that George W. Bush is a man of his word. He says what he believes, and believes what he says. If you believe Bill Clinton was a good president, then you must also believe that a man who can point his finger and lie to your face in order to circumvent the rule of law is good leader.
- A good president is not somebody who tells the truth, rather somebody who goes good for their country. Bush has done NOTHING good, not even be honest, which I proved.

- Clinton ignored every terrorist attack against our allies, military, and citizens, President Bush has rebuilt the military.
+ Bush cut funding from veteran health care etc. to pump money in our miilitary and has not been effective in stopping terrorists. Source: Washington Post, "Bush's '06 Budget Would Scrap or Reduce 154 Programs

- NCLB will clearly fix this problem, by forcing teachers and school administrators to get these students up to par if they want their funding.+ This plan is ineffective. I've been in both schools and NCLB just lowers funding for those who deserve it and the other kids suffer too.

- We'd all like to know from whom a 14-year old gets the idea that NCLB is so bad.
+ That is so insulting. I care develop my own opinion through experience and not speculation unlike you.

- If that's the case, you're telling me that in your first year of high school, NCLB was so bad that your school went from completely vacant to completely overcrowded? Much like your previous arguments, it just doesn't hold any water.
+ I'm a junior in some subjects (complicated) and yes. YOU DESCRIBED THIS EXACTLY RIGHT!!!

To sum it up, I believe George W. Bush is a good president because he is honest, he is proactively protecting our country from terrorist threats, and because he pushes legislation he believes in, not bills to make him popular.

+ He is obviously dishonest.
+ He has not stopped terrorist threats and will not and cannot.
+ All presidents push legislation they believe in. This is not even good quality.

YOU DID NOT MENTION MY POINT ABOUT THE ECONOMY:
Budget Surplus/Deficit
$422 billion Bush
$236 billion Clinton

Pct Change in Deficit
+278.85% Bush
-181.4% Clinton

Unemployment Rate
5.2 Bush
4.0 Clinton

Uninsured Pct.
15.6% Bush
14.2% Clinton
Poverty Rate
12.5 BUsh
11.3 Clinton

Median Household In
Phil

Pro

You declared yourself the winner of the debate in the second round, I was merely pointing out that neither you nor I get to decide the winner.

In your future debates, I suggest you try and remove your emotions from your arguments, and cite more factual sources. You've listed a lot of so-called facts in the last round, however you failed to provide reliable sources backing them up. For the most part, I don't agree with your premise that if there's a bad sector in the economy, it is magically the President's doing. You seem to want to blame every bad thing on President Bush, yet you are unwilling to give him any credit for the good things.

Regarding your last points, let's address them one-by-one.

1. I personally would not describe any of the interrogation and restraining methods you listed as torture. Severing one's head with a knife is however torturous, and a common act of the terrorist enemies we all face, and which you don't believe exist. In the President's case, you are claiming that he lies because you two share a different opinion regarding the definition of torture. This is clearly not a lie.

2. You insinuation that our President knowingly stood by and allowed 3,000 Americans to be murdered is preposterous. Where are your facts, where is the source of such a disgusting allegation? More importantly, why would he, as a Christian man allow it? It's illogical, and deserves no place here except to show your hidden agenda. Again, there is no lie here.

3. You would think that such abandoned terrorist plots might have been forfeited because of pressure from law enforcement and increased security making the likelihood of their successes negligible. Certainly the President and the law enforcement community should get credit for disrupting their plans. Again, no lies here.

4. Regarding Iraq, if our intelligence, and our allies' intelligence all believed that Iraq possessed WMDs, then President Bush's statements are not lies. They are statements based on the information available at the time. In order for this to be a lie, the President would have had to believe that Iraq didn't have WMDs. On a side note, your premise that WMDs didn't exist is again incorrect. Iraq is a large country with many landscapes, and concealing WMDs would be an easy task, and perhaps even easier to move them to any of several neighboring countries like Syria or Iran.

5. The truth is that we did in fact find WMDs in Iraq and several WMD laboratories. "In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors. The Iraq Survey Group, ISG, whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led arms-inspection teams, has found ‘hundreds of cases of activities that were prohibited' under U.N. Security Council resolutions, a senior administration official tells Insight." (1) I am guessing your liberal sources didn't let you know that did they? Of course not, because it doesn't suit their agenda. Perhaps this shocking fact will encourage you to stop buying liberal propaganda and do some much needed independent research.

6. I'm not sure what supposed lie(s) you're pointing out with your statements regarding the intelligence the President saw, versus the congressional representatives. Is there a lie in there somewhere? I assume you're suggesting the President saw contradicting intelligence than that which was shown to the congressional reps. Such an act might be a lie, however you offer no evidence to support it. You believe it to be true because you dislike the president so much, you believe he is capable of such a ridiculous thing.

Forgive me if I don't believe your outlandish statements regarding No Child Left Behind and your high school. It's inconceivable to me how in mid-year, a school could have so much vacant space, only to miraculously become overcrowded. From where did all of these new students come? It just doesn't make any sense.

Regarding your claims about the economy…the President controls the ups and downs of the economy about as much as he/she controls the weather. You list several statistics, yet fail to cite any specific actions by President Bush that lead to any of them.

Clinton Surplus Myth – "While not defending the increase of the federal debt under President Bush, it is aggravating seeing Clinton's record promoted as having generated a surplus. It never happened. There was never a surplus and the cold hard facts support that position. In fact, far from a $360 billion reduction in the national debt in FY1998-FY2000, there was an increase of $281 billion." (2)

Unemployment Myth – "Despite inheriting the Clinton Recession and managing through the corporate scandals and the 9-11 attacks that crippled the US economy, the average monthly unemployment rate during the Bush years now bests the Clinton years" (3)

I'm not even going to address the uninsured rate. Insurance is a product/service just like any other. It is a personal fiscal decision to either have or not have insurance, and not the President's.

To sum it up, you have not proven any lies from President Bush, nor have you stated accurate economical figures.

My reasons for President Bush being a good president still stand. He is honest and holding true to his oath to protect the American people from threats. He has put aside his personal reputation, constantly being slammed by a liberal media that opposes him ideologically, and continues to do what he believes is right…not popular. I'm not saying he is a great president; there are a lot of things I dislike about the president, none of which make him a bad president in my opinion.

I enjoyed this debate, let's do it again sometime. In the meantime, I need to get back to building the next version of the website. Good luck with your future debates.

(1) http://www.worldnetdaily.com...

(2) http://www.letxa.com...

(3) http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Bumpy
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
Good sources, guys!
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Policydebategod made Policydebategod look like a child >.>
Posted by Leftymorgan 9 years ago
Leftymorgan
Just want to point to a fact about gas prices. They didn't go above 3 dollars until after the 2006 elections and guess what, the Democrats won and felt they had a mandate. What they failed to understand that they weren't voted in so much as the Republicans were voted out. The low unemployment rate is a good thing and you tried to paint it as a bad thing. Clinton never realized that low of a rate. It has been proven out over the last 2 years at least once a month that Bush has realized the lowest unemployment rate over the last 4 decades, so you need to make sure that you are checking your facts in more places than liberal websites that want to paint Bush in a bad light. By the way I am a Bob Barr supporter and like less government.
Posted by FrontLineConservative 9 years ago
FrontLineConservative
phil made policydebategod look like a child.
Posted by DrAlexander 9 years ago
DrAlexander
Semantics is similiar, if you try to argue semantics with 'non.debater' it will get you no where.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
I gotta agree. Policy debate encourages very absurd arguments. Not good if you wanna make your debate skills into a career.
Posted by ChevySdyme99 9 years ago
ChevySdyme99
As for the debt thing, I maybe wrong about this but i thought our debt regardless of who is in office. So obviously a president who is in office after someone else is going to have a bigger debt to deal with...
Posted by ireallylovetsa 9 years ago
ireallylovetsa
Chuckles, thanks for the support there except.. I'm not a girl...
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
PDG, you don't need to make personal attacks both on Phil and Bush to make your point. And i agree with "ireallylovetsa" when she says he has a right to drop ridiculous arguments. Listen, if you want to make a statement as radical as claiming our economy is worse than some african countries, back it up. you repeatedly make claims without any backup. no evidence, not a shred of even logic behind it. and as for the africa bit, i'm almost betting you have a stat that says some nation in africa GROWS faster than our economy. That might be because the african nation is likely a developing nation that is so small that any growth is a large percent. but anyways, you didn't have evidence (unusual for a policy debater, at least at my area...) so in my opinion you forfeit this round.
46 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Mharman 7 months ago
Mharman
policydebategodPhilTied
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Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: We had a surplus before Bush and now we have a rescission after him.
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Reasons for voting decision: Dust there where no VB's, RFD's where not needed. Sources because con had none. I will do args later.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: counter vbs'
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Reasons for voting decision: Con needs to learn the word 'objective' and stop using personal prejudice to prove his point.
Vote Placed by sidobagga 7 years ago
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