The Instigator
Stupidape
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Akhenaten
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Germ theory is a fraud

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/22/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 311 times Debate No: 81340
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Stupidape

Con

I Con will argue that the Germ theory is not a fraud and is indeed legit.

Akhenaten will argue Pro that the Germ theory is a fraud.
Akhenaten

Pro

1. Germ theory is essentially an illogical assumption. The assumption that germs can or would kill their host is illogical. If this had been occurring throughout mankind's evolution, then, the germs would have become extinct a long time ago.

2. Germ theory advocates never state what the real cause of a disease is. This is a common omission of germ theory advocates. Germs don't appear unless there is a cause for them to appear. In most cases, the human body generates its own disease which is a reaction to toxic chemicals or vitamin deficiency. Humans have strayed from nature in their endeavours to conquer nature so that they are not threatened by it. They have created what they believe to be fool proof systems of growing crops so that they always have a plentiful supply of food regardless of the climate conditions. Unfortunately, nature always has the last laugh. The grain crops that they plant are unnatural to the human digestive system and cause all sorts of problems for humans. These problems may include, blurred or poor vision due to high blood sugar levels, diabetes, stroke, heart attack, cancer, arthritis, dementia, colds and flu.

3. Nature doesn't have any diseases. Disease is restricted only to humans. Animals in natural surroundings never get sick. The only instances of animals getting sick is when those animals eat or are infected with human made chemicals which cause the disease or problem. Some examples would be - Tasmanian Devil - Cancer caused by herbicides, insecticides, fire retardants, plastics, rubbish tips and poison baits. Bees - Colony Collapse Disorder, Varroa and Acarapis Mites - These are just the result of insecticide spraying which causes these problems.

Note - The authorities try very hard to ignore the causes of disease so that they can't be blamed as being part of the cause. Thus, the pharmaceutical industry and government bodies are protected against litigation and prosecution. You will never hear a media report on a disease which highlights the true cause. The media will never say, for example - "that the Tasmanian Devils are being poisoned by toxic chemicals in the environment". In order to find the true cause you have to seek out secretly produced research documents which never reach the public's notice.

4. The main cause of human diseases are improper diets, lack of sanitation, eating stale food, faecal infection of water supply, chemical poisoning and over processing of food. Humans have adopted an unnatural diet which nature never intended. The human body can't handle or deal with the foods that humans eat, thus, they get sick and blame it on germs as being the culprits. Universities support germ theory because because they get funding from the pharmaceutical industry and germ theory generates a lot of profit for the health industry in general.

5. The medical authorities keep changing the names of diseases to suit themselves. This is because they really don't know one disease from another disease. They generally only identify diseases by symptoms. After all, all viruses look pretty much alike. lol

http://ahealedplanet.net...

https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Con

First off I thank you for accepting my challenge. I did skim through your resources. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the germ theory is. All my life I've heard that smoking causes cancer like a drum beat.

So lets do a little fact checking and see if smoking causes cancer. Also lets see if the fact that smoking causes cancer is mutually exclusive to the germ theory.

"Starting with the 1964 Surgeon General"s Report and followed by each subsequent Surgeon General"s Report that has included a review of the evidence on smoking and lung cancer, an enormous body of scientific evidence clearly documents that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, and that cigarette smoking is the major cause of lung cancer." cancer.gov

Yes smoking causes cancer. But is cancer a disease?
"Cancer is a disease " cdc.gov

Yes cancer is a disease.

"The germ theory of disease states that some diseases are caused by microorganisms. "

Key word some, as opposed to all. Therefore I claim that the fact that lifestyle factors like smoking, diet, and exercise which can cause disease and environmental factors like pollutants, radioactive waste, does not falsify the hypothesis of the germ theory.

In other-words in order to prove the hypothesis of the germ theory wrong and thus falsify it you need to prove that germs never cause disease in any circumstance. Seriously, good luck falsifying the germ theory.

Whether or not the majority of disease is caused by germs or other causes is irrelevant. As long as one incident of disease has been caused by germs, the hypothesis holds.

If you watch the below video with Dr. Garth Nicolson he confirms that pathogens are a threat. That mycoplasma infections are what are causing a lot of these mystery diseases.

As long as you think the germ theory is a fraud you are vulnerable to these infections.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
http://www.cancer.gov...
https://www.youtube.com...
Akhenaten

Pro

1. All I need to prove is that germ theory is a fraud. The key word being fraud. Thus, if any part of the theory is fraudulent, then, the entire theory should be considered as a general fraud. One cannot commit a partial fraud. Thus, in order to win my case; all I have to prove is one case of where it was claimed that a germ caused a disease and it was later found that it wasn't a germ that caused it.

Note - One cannot commit a partial murder, for example. It is a black and white issue. A murder is either committed or not committed. The jury must decide, not the defendant, nor the prosecution.

2. Dr Garth Nicholson talks about disease in military cases and applications. This is not particularly relevant to the issues at hand in this case. I would put forward the fact that biological weapons have never been successfully deployed in a combat situation. This is because - 'germs are the result of a disease and are not the cause of a disease' (Antoine Bechamp)

Dr Garth Nicholson does not mention vitamin deficiency, chemical poisoning or vaccination chemicals as being the cause of the soldiers disease. Thus, he has not considered all possible causes and is blinkered and biased in his thinking concerning disease origins.

3. My opponent has not responded to many of my claims put forward in my opening statement. I am still waiting for his response to these issues. If he continues to not respond to my statements, then, I should be able to claim victory on this matter by default. Avoidance is not a proper method of debate and should be considered as morally irresponsible behaviour.

4. My opponent has not commented on the video and book evidence that I have provided. He has stated that he doesn't know much about germ theory which is evident in his responses. My opponent thinks that I am vulnerable to germs because I don't believe in germ theory. On the contrary, I don't get any diseases, viruses or suffer from neurological disorders. This is because I understand that diet is the cause of most disease. I also understand that dangerous chemicals can cause disease. Thus, I avoid preservatives and processed foods which may contain dangerous chemicals.
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Con

I know I said 48 hours, but I hit my limit for my ability to process new information earlier than expected. Got only eight minutes into the video. Instead I will only debate what you posted as opposed to the links.

"Germ theory is essentially an illogical assumption. The assumption that germs can or would kill their host is illogical. If this had been occurring throughout mankind's evolution, then, the germs would have become extinct a long time ago." Pro

Germs are scavengers like vultures. Vultures don't normally kill healthy prey. Germs like vultures appear when an animal is in a weakened state. Often finishing off the victim like many scavengers in nature do.

Think of wolves, hunting the weakest deer ensuring survival of the fittest. Germs ensure survival of the fittest by killing the young, weak, old, and sick. In rare instances groups of scavengers will kill healthy animals.

Germs kill plants, also known as blight.

Pro "The grain crops that they plant are unnatural to the human digestive system and cause all sorts of problems for humans. These problems may include, blurred or poor vision due to high blood sugar levels, diabetes, stroke, heart attack, cancer, arthritis, dementia, colds and flu."

No proof, the disease could have just as easily been caused by the consumption of cooked meat and dairy products.

Pro "3. Nature doesn't have any diseases. Disease is restricted only to humans. Animals in natural surroundings never get sick.

That's a little hard to prove since humans occupy most of the earth. How would a human know this without getting close to such an animal?

Pro "The only instances of animals getting sick is when those animals eat or are infected with human made chemicals which cause the disease or problem. Some examples would be - Tasmanian Devil - Cancer caused by herbicides, insecticides, fire retardants, plastics, rubbish tips and poison baits. Bees - Colony Collapse Disorder, Varroa and Acarapis Mites - These are just the result of insecticide spraying which causes these problems."

Yes, we all know that toxins like cigarette smoke can cause disease.

Pro "Note - The authorities try very hard to ignore the causes of disease so that they can't be blamed as being part of the cause. Thus, the pharmaceutical industry and government bodies are protected against litigation and prosecution. You will never hear a media report on a disease which highlights the true cause. The media will never say, for example - "that the Tasmanian Devils are being poisoned by toxic chemicals in the environment". In order to find the true cause you have to seek out secretly produced research documents which never reach the public's notice. "

I hear of pet's on the news being poisoned all the time. Mostly antifreeze.

"4. The main cause of human diseases are improper diets, lack of sanitation, eating stale food, faecal infection of water supply, chemical poisoning and over processing of food. Humans have adopted an unnatural diet which nature never intended. The human body can't handle or deal with the foods that humans eat, thus, they get sick and blame it on germs as being the culprits. Universities support germ theory because because they get funding from the pharmaceutical industry and germ theory generates a lot of profit for the health industry in general. "

You act as if nature is an intelligent being. This is no longer a scientific argument but instead a religious argument.

"5. The medical authorities keep changing the names of diseases to suit themselves. This is because they really don't know one disease from another disease. They generally only identify diseases by symptoms. After all, all viruses look pretty much alike. Lol "

I don't have enough time to refute everyone of your many claims.

Pro "1. All I need to prove is that germ theory is a fraud. The key word being fraud. Thus, if any part of the theory is fraudulent, then, the entire theory should be considered as a general fraud. One cannot commit a partial fraud. Thus, in order to win my case; all I have to prove is one case of where it was claimed that a germ caused a disease and it was later found that it wasn't a germ that caused it. "

For the germ theory to be fraud it most be false. If one is telling the truth one cannot be a fraud. If a theory is correct, it cannot be a fraud.

"Pathology. the theory that infectious diseases are due to the agency of germs or microorganisms." dictionary.refrence.com

http://dictionary.reference.com...

"Why can a hypothesis never be "proven" to be true?

a. One can never collect enough data to be 100% sure." funnelbrain.com

http://www.funnelbrain.com...

By definition the germ theory must be falsifiable in order for it to be scientific. Thus, the germ theory's hypothesis could be proven false, thus falsifying the theory. In contrast scientific studies could support the hypothesis.

All I see is an expression of doubts about the germ theory. No scientific evidence that falsifies the hypothesis thus proving the germ theory is false. If the germ theory is proven false the claim could then be made that the germ theory is a fraud. As long as the hypothesis hasn't been proven false there is no way you can prove that the germ theory is a fraud.

At the same time you appear to use religion to disprove a scientific theory "Humans have adopted an unnatural diet which nature never intended." Pro

I see no way that you can disprove a scientific theory on religious grounds.

"On the contrary, I don't get any diseases, viruses or suffer from neurological disorders. This is because I understand that diet is the cause of most disease. I also understand that dangerous chemicals can cause disease. Thus, I avoid preservatives and processed foods which may contain dangerous chemicals." Pro

There is an alternate explanation. Your body immune system is strengthen by your healthy lifestyle. Therefore you immune system is able to quickly and efficiently ward off pathogens.
Akhenaten

Pro

Quote - 'Germs are scavengers like vultures. Vultures don't normally kill healthy prey. Germs like vultures appear when an animal is in a weakened state. Often finishing off the victim like many scavengers in nature do'.

Reply - This explanation is totally illogical. Germs don't have any brains, eyes or hearing, so how can they determine if a human is sick or injured like a vulture, wolf or a hyena can? How do these germs see a sick person and communicate with one another on mass, then, supposedly, they jump onto this poor sick human and to start devouring them? This is a totally ludicrous concept.

The only logical explanation is that humans make themselves sick by eating inappropriate foods which generate germs internally. The germs do not come from external sources as germ theory suggests. Therefore, using logic, we can see that germ theory is a fraud. We don't really need to conduct any experiments to test this idea because logic is sufficient to prove my point. If you want to test this idea, all you have to do is eat inappropriate foods and you will definitely get sick soon enough. I know because I have made myself sick many times by eating grain, sugar and dairy foods. Since I have stopped eating these foods I have never gotten sick.

Quote - 'Germs kill plants, also known as blight'.

Reply - Plants are subject to vitamin deficiency also. If a plant gets a disease, it is because the plant is vitamin deficient or has been planted in the wrong environment. Humans have isolated many plant species so that their genetic diversity has been reduced. Thus, these species are genetically weak and feeble plants which are susceptible to disease.

Quote - 'No proof, the disease could have just as easily been caused by the consumption of cooked meat and dairy products.'

Reply - http://articles.mercola.com...

Quote - 'You act as if nature is an intelligent being. This is no longer a scientific argument but instead a religious argument'.

I have already demonstrated that germ theory is a make believe religious concept. My opponent is getting desperate now, he is trying to turn the debate around by suggesting that my concepts and the concepts of millions of naturopathic doctors is just a religious belief. He is defending the irrational germ theory concept, so that the pharmacy industry can steal billions of dollars from unsuspecting people who trust the medical system. The medical system is a totally amoral profit making organisation which cares little for human health and well-being.

Quote - 'For the germ theory to be fraud it most be false. If one is telling the truth one cannot be a fraud. If a theory is correct, it cannot be a fraud.'

Reply - What? Just another example of irrational thinking.

Quote - 'By definition the germ theory must be falsifiable in order for it to be scientific. Thus, the germ theory's hypothesis could be proven false, thus falsifying the theory. In contrast scientific studies could support the hypothesis.'

Reply - What? He keeps tripping over his own words in a desperate attempt to justify his irrational claims.

Quote - 'All I see is an expression of doubts about the germ theory. No scientific evidence that falsifies the hypothesis thus proving the germ theory is false. If the germ theory is proven false the claim could then be made that the germ theory is a fraud. As long as the hypothesis hasn't been proven false there is no way you can prove that the germ theory is a fraud.'

Reply - Again, here is the proof that grain causes disease - http://articles.mercola.com...

Quote - 'There is an alternate explanation. Your body immune system is strengthen by your healthy lifestyle. Therefore you immune system is able to quickly and efficiently ward off pathogens.'

Reply - I have already proven that external pathogens don't cause disease. The immune system is only in operation when there is a cut to the surface of the skin. The digestive system can allow bacteria to enter the blood stream via the gut, but this is only to fix a chemical imbalance.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
Stupidape
I watched the and listened to the entire video. Was great entertainment. I will be sure to tell me friends. I'll watch it a few more times. Next, I will write as the video suggested to Alex and tell him he is full of crap. The entire world will know my opinion of this silly video.

The idea of bacteria being able to morph and change forms based upon environment and food, ridiculous. Also the idea that somebody was able to make a better microscope a long way back. Hahahhahaha.
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
Stupidape
I'm slow to take in new information, I doubt I'll be able to make a fully detailed response within the 72 hour time limit. If I am to fully destroy your argument I must fully read and comprehend your argument. Since the ideas are foreign to me this could take months.

I will make a partial argument in 48 hours. Expect a full rebuttal in about 2 months time.
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
Stupidape
Hmmm, so if I understand you correctly that if I drank several vials full of every germ known to man kind I would be fine? There would be no consequences?
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
Stupidape
I really think you are wrong. Just for starters how do you explain the contagious nature of some disease? If it was a toxin or lifestyle cause, it wouldn't be contagious. You posted a lot of content, and it will require at least 24 hours to make a full detailed response.
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
Akhenaten basically just reposted a case that I already shot down. The only defense he had was a series of logical fallacies and baseless assertions.
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