The Instigator
Oberbann
Pro (for)
Losing
23 Points
The Contender
SolaGratia
Con (against)
Winning
26 Points

German Automakers Make the Best Automobiles

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Technology
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,975 times Debate No: 1384
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (13)

 

Oberbann

Pro

I was a fool last time I proposed this debate topic because I made it a one-round debate. I will now instigate another challenge that will allow me to respond.

German automakers make the world's best cars. A primary facet of the overwhelming load of evidence supporting this conjecture is that German automobiles are designed to perform at a multitude of speeds with minimal compromise made to any speed range. No other group of automakers offers this design.

I will elaborate further in later rounds, but German automobiles are clearly the world's best-designed, best-built, and best-appointed automobiles in the world. Other nations' automakers' cars may sell better, be more popular, or better rated by some organizations, but the overwhelming load of evidence will show that Germany, my homeland, makes the best automobiles.
SolaGratia

Con

Yes, what are your parameters for "best?"

Germany does not make the best cars in the world. Porsches, BMWs, Mercedes-Benzes, and Volkswagens are good cars, and in some cases great cars, but it is arrogant to claim that they are the best in the world.

According to J.D. Power and Associates, Porsches are the cars with the fewest problems per 100 vehicles. However, BMW, Volkswagen, and Mercedes-Benz are near the bottom on the list (1). Therefore, quality-wise, German cars are far below average.

Motor Trend Magazine has a Car of the Year contest every year. A German car has NEVER WON. When they had a "foreign" category, German cars won five times out of thirty. ONE SIXTH.

According to Consumer Reports "European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi." While this is fewer than American cars, it is far more than the Japanese.

Of course, in your first argument, you said you would not accept facts and figures, which tells me you're unable to negotiate, which tells me I'm wasting my breath.
Debate Round No. 1
Oberbann

Pro

You continue to say: "Define Best." I will.

German automobiles are some of the world's safest automobiles. German automakers pay special attention to detail. This includes detailed, highly advanced safety systems. German motorways are high-speed. We frequently drive speeds in excess of 130 kilometers per hour on our motorways, and most cars cannot be safe at those speeds. Many Japanese and American cars have single-layer, thin-steel or aluminum bodies. These frames may be acceptable for low-speed driving, but we Germans have set a higher standard. All Audis, for example, are built with double-layer, all stainless-steel frames. Very few other automakers even have one car that is built to this level of strength and safety, let alone an entire line.

German cars are also some of the best-appointed automobiles in the world. We Germans enjoy driving, and expect our automobiles to be of the highest quality. We pay attention to detail, and demand the details to be perfect. That is why we have engineered many features that are innovative and user-friendly. These include auto-tilt headlamps, auto-dim mirrors, intelligent climate-control systems, intelligent keys, and all sorts of compartments that serve a multitude of functions. Many automakers have copied our designs, but they are followers. We Germans continue to be automotive pioneers.

Our cars are also built to perform. Germans enjoy brisk driving, fast stops, and accurate steering. Our automobiles deliver all of these. We also have very low city speed limits; most city streets have limits of 30 kilometers per hour. German engineers have designed cars that perform equally well at high and low speeds. We pioneered high-compression engines, which allow high performance at high speeds, while keeping the automobile drivable in the city.

German cars also are designed to last. The stainless-steel frames and bodies on German cars are some of the most corrosion-resistant automotive components manufactured. The German standard has long been a 27-step paint process; most other manufacturers use just a 12 or 15-step process. This keeps our paint in better condition for longer, inhibiting corrosion. German car manufactures have also long used aluminum engine blocks, which are only now catching on in other markets. This is evidence of the long tradition of excellence in engineering that characterizes German automaking.

Germany's automobiles are at a low point, however. We need to continue to ensure that only the highest quality components go into our automobiles. Nevertheless, the defects are in the add-on equipment, not in the structural or mechanical systems of the automobile. Even American automobile reviewers always have favorable comments about German mechanical engineering and the performance of German automobiles. Automaking is much more competitive than it has ever been, but Germany still designs the world's best performing automobiles.
SolaGratia

Con

Oberbann: As far as I can tell, you have backed up your original argument with one piece of evidence: the paint-process of German cars. It's going to take more than that to convince me.

As far as I can see, you have given me nothing to refute. Very well. That's your decision, I suppose. Here, then, is why German automakers DO NOT make the best automobiles.

First of all, you do not seem to acknowledge that I am here, and that I have made an argument. Your job, my friend, is to refute me. As far as I can tell, you don't even know I exist. HELLO? HELLO? ARE YOU THERE?

Here we go:

The Germans have made some great cars, including my personal all-time favorite, the Volkswagen Beetle. However, they are not the greatest cars in the world.

When most people buy a car, they want something that fits their needs. German cars are too generic. Too impersonal. I know all cars are assembled by robots these days, but they shouldn't FEEL like it.

Most of the blame for this, it's true, lies with one man: Chris Bangle. As head of BMW design, he designed the current-model BMW Seven-Series, one of the ugliest, most complicated cars of all time. Along with his pupil Van Hooydonk, he has transformed BMW into some sort of Japanese-wannabe. His cars look like they were designed by a manga artist, and the electronical nannies and the maddening iDrive system are some of the worst in the world.

Unfortunately, the other German carmakers, with the exception of Porsche, have followed him like sheep to the slaughter. The S-Class Mercedes, for example, looks like the illegitimate offspring of a baboon and a large chunk of metal.

I'm getting a little silly, I know. However, when you make some refutable claims (beside that they paint their cars better. Believe it or not, most people couldn't care less) I will argue. I bid you adieu.
Debate Round No. 2
Oberbann

Pro

First of all, as I am the instigator, it is your job to refute me. Second, I answered your opening rebuttal. You asked me to define best; I did. If your idea of argument is to have me pick little quotes out of your rebuttal and post links to some Wikipedia article to refute them, you'll find I'm not your sort of debater.

In your opening rebuttal, you state that German automobiles are recognized as unreliable. However, did you know that MINI, the firm that makes the Mini Cooper, is ranked in the top five most reliable automakers by Car and Driver? Now, did you know that MINI is really a German automaker? It is owned by BMW, whose designers work extensively on all MINI models. I responded to you, saying that German automaking is at a low point, but overall, we have produced a long history of excellent and reliable automobiles.

I own an Audi A4. This automobile fits my needs and is beautifully engineered and appointed. It is as personal as I would ever want an automobile to be. My parents owned a Honda Civic, which was not designed nearly as well as my Audi. The designers of the Audi were not "impersonal and robotic," but rather, they thought of nearly everything. My Audi has a stowage bag for skis, which I use quite often; heated seats, which are priceless in the German Alps; and auto-turn headlamps, which are invaluable on twisting, winding roads. I don't know what you mean by "feeling robotic," but I have never felt that way in a German automobile. I did, however, feel that I was in a cheap car when I rode in a Honda Civic. Nobody pays attention to detail like a German engineer.

You seem to dislike the style of German automobiles, which is acceptable. However, you have not refuted that we build solid, well designed automobiles. If you are judging on style alone, then you have no sense of automobiles. A well-designed automobile blends form into function, and this is evident in its style. I particularly like the style of most German automobiles; likewise, I particularly dislike the style of most Japanese cars. But style is only one facet of an excellent automobile. Germany builds some of the world's best-designed, best-appointed, longest-lasting, and best-performing automobiles. My opponent has not refuted this. Rather, he seems to think that German automobiles are "robotic."
SolaGratia

Con

That's more like it. Oberbann, if you look at your arguments closely, you will see that there was something missing in the first two: evidence. Aside from the paint issue, you raised no arguments or evidence except congratulation. In the third round you have done better.

First of all, you say you felt like you were riding in a cheap car when you rode in your parents' Civic, and that it was far inferior to your A4. This is understandable, as a Civic costs less than half of what your A4 costs now. I assume that this was years ago, perhaps back in the 80s. At that time, Japanese cars, as I'm sure you know, were as indifferently made as the Korean cars of the last decade (although they, too, are much improved.) To compare a Civic from the 80s to today's A4 is not valid comparison. If, instead, you compared TODAY's Civic to your A4, it would have been better. A lot has changed since your parents' Civic was made.

I do not dislike German cars, but I hold that they are not, as you say, the best in the world. Nor do I think this of Japanese cars, or American or French or Italian or Korean cars. Frankly, I don't think that one country makes the best cars in the world. The "best car" is not dependent on the country it is made in, but who it is made by. A BMW 7-Series is far inferior to, say, a new Jaguar XF, but a Volkswagen Tuareg is far superior to a Nissan Murano.

You are correct in saying that if I judged on style alone, I would not be fit to debate this issue. Styling is only one side of the coin, and horrendous-looking cars can be very capable underneath. The Pontiac Aztek, which probably has never been sold in Germany, is widely recognized as one of the ugliest four-wheeled-vehicles on the planet, but it is capable and I see them around a lot here in western Wisconsin.

My conclusion, then, is this: Germans have made many good, and some great, cars, but to say that they are the best in the world is foolish. "Best" is subjective, anyway, and as I pointed out before, I don't think it depends on the country that makes it, but the people.

Thanks for the debate! :)
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by jeffm 3 years ago
jeffm
I am a fan of japanese cars and german and some american...but the japanese ...yes they may be reliable, but are a bit boring sometimes, mostly in the lower end models...I really don't see what the big deal is about a honda civic as they get press and are talked about etc etc..recently we drove a used 09 what a noisy piece of junk..it was terrible,rock hard seats, noisy interior,noisy engine, poor styling.....now vs a used jetta same year..the german engineering shined through..what a difference. Quiet, solid, quality. The other item is most japenese cars don't fit taller drivers and i'm only 6'0 but have a hard time finding a jap car that fits me. I feel like iam sitting on the floor with no leg support...it's bad. Then you take the next step to a BMW or Mercedes and then it's like wow..what a drivers car..tight steering, smooth divetrains, comfort, quality and class..alot of class. Even a lexus or infinity can't hold the class candle of a BMW or Mercedes....sorry fans. For me the BMW is the drivers car.
Posted by Oberbann 9 years ago
Oberbann
Good debate. I enjoyed discussing automobiles with you. By the way, my parents still drive a 1998 Honda Civic. They, however, can't wait to get an Audi when the Honda wears out.
Posted by mdb2290 9 years ago
mdb2290
I should have taken it.lol. Next time. He may post it again if he loses.
Posted by tjzimmer 9 years ago
tjzimmer
yeah i know he needs to be specific,,,I owned his last debate about this and looks like someone else can do the same
Posted by mdb2290 9 years ago
mdb2290
Define "Best". Best in which ways? Safer? Most economical? Longest life-span?
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