The Instigator
jml5208
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Giants will beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
jml5208
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,441 times Debate No: 20656
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

jml5208

Pro

The Giants will beat the Patriots in the Superbowl because they are currently the hottest team in football.

Eli Manning is the "hot" QB now whereas Brady struggled vs top tier defenses this entire season.

The Patriots defense was statistically the worst in the league this year. Eli Manning will have Manningham, Nicks, and Cruz open all game. This will open up holes for Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs to run wild.

The Giants defense should be able to rough up Brady similar to what they did in 2007. Jason Pierre-Paul, Justin Tuck and Osi will hit and beat up on Tom Brady.

The Giants will win a close game
imabench

Con

Arguments for the patriots
1) They are actually expected to win
2) The Giants at one point were 7 - 7
3) Tom Brady vs Eli Manning
4) Patriots defense can be strong at critical times and does force more turnovers
5) Tom Brady has Superbowl experience
6) Pro bowlers
7) The Coaches
8) Team Stats

1) Patriots are expected to beat the Giants according to many sources, Vegas odds, and famous gamblers some of whom have predicted 13 Superbowls in a row correct and currently like the Pats in this one by about 3 points
http://www.revengeofthebirds.com...
http://www.foxnews.com...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...

Now it could be argued that odds dont matter since the igants beat the patriots before despite being the underdogs, bit the same thing goes for the Patriots who were underdogs in 2001 when they beat the heavily favored Rams...

2) The Giants at one point were 7-7 during the regular season and only through a miracle (and several Tony Romo screw ups) did not become playoff eligible until the very last game. When they won the Superbowl back in 2007 the Giants had a record of 9-5 by week 15, but this year that record was at 7-7 implying that the team has only gotten worse.

Now to be fair, the Pats that season by week 15 were at 14-0 and this season at week 15 was at 11-3 so they got worse too, but which sounds like a better team, 11-3 or 7-7?.....

3) The QB's between both teams are not easily comparable.... Brady has 3 Superbowl wins, 7 pro bowls, 300 TDs for 115 Ints and a QB rating of 96.4

E. Manning on the other hand.... hehehe, well.... He only has one Superbowl win, 2 pro bowls, 185 TDs for 129 Ints and a QB rating of 82.1

So to summarize, Brady is an A+ QB who has 2.61 TD's for every Int,
And then Eli Manning is a B- QB who has 1.43 TD's for every Int.....

QB wise the Pats have a huge advantage.

4) Patriots do have a shaky defense but the patriots defense does come through for them when the situation calls. At the very end of the Ravens game in the Championship game you may have noticed that a certain touchdown pass which was cleanly caught by Ravens wide receiver Evans had the ball knocked clean out of his hands even though he had perfect control over the ball resulting in an incomplete pass which would have cost the Pats the game.

Pats have more interceptions than the giants (23 to 20) just as many fumbles recovered (11 for both teams)

Interesting side note, the Giants are forced to punt way mroe than the Patriots have to (Pats had 57, giants had 82)
http://espn.go.com...
http://espn.go.com...

5) Superbowl rings say a lot about experience playing in high pressure scenarios, and each of the 3 rings Tom Brady has won came as a result of leading the Pats on game ending, game winning drives that result in field goals for the win. The one ring that Manning has on his finger came the same way and against the pats, but that game winning drive was more miracle from wide receivers than from skill from the QB...

6) Number of pro bowlers on each team this year,
Patriots = 8, Brady, 6 on offense, 2 on defense
Giants = 2, Manning, 1 on offense, 1 on defense

enough said....

7) The Coach can be the biggest part of a team. The 49ers may not have even gotten this far had they had a different coach, so how does the Giants coach compare to Bill Belichick?
Coughlin Stats = 129-103 lifetime, 10-7 post season, 1-0 in Superbowls, coached from 2004 to 2011
Bilichick Stats = 175-97 lifetime, 17-6 post season, 3-1 in Superbowls, coached from 2000 to 2011

So not only does Bilichick have a far better coaching career in wins, but he is more successful in leading his team to wins in the playoffs, he has more experience winning Superbowls, has been with his team longer, and despite coaching for four MORE years still has LESS losses in the regular season AND in the playoffs than Coughlin....
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

8) Right from NFL.com, here are the offensive rankings for both the Giants and Patriots
Points.................. Pats = 32.1 (3rd)............ Giants = 24.6 (9th)
Yards.................. Pats = 428ypg (2nd)........ Giants = 385.1ypg (8th)
Passing Yards...... Pats = 317.8ypg (2nd)..... Giants = 295.9 (5th)
Rushing Yards ..... Pats = 110.2ypg (20th).... Giants = 89.2 (DEAD LAST)

Yes you read it right, the Giants have the-worst-rushing-game-in-the-entire-NFL meaning the soul of their offense lies in the arm of Eli Manning who on average is worse than Tom Brady in almost every passing category, Brady of course being part of a team that actually can use the running game effectively....
http://www.nfl.com...
http://www.nfl.com...

So offensive production goes to the Patriots by a nice margin

Ill end here for now :)
Debate Round No. 1
jml5208

Pro

Your first argument holds no water as the Vegas odds made the Patriots a three point favorite. The purpose of the Vegas line is to get 50-50 action on both sides to ensure a profit no matter what. But going to more rationale thinking, the Giants beat the Patriots as a TWELVE point underdog in 2007. Like you said that Pats won as huge underdogs versus the Greatest Show on Turf St. Louis Rams. In 2010 the Saints were five point underdogs to the Colts. The Saints won that game outright. The Buccaneers also were underdogs versus the Raiders in 2003 and won. That's four times in the past ten years. Yes that is only 40% but that doesn't mean it's impossible for the underdog to win.
http://www.vegasinsider.com...

Yes the Giants were 7-7 at one point this season but have since won five straight games. It doesn't matter when you clinch the playoffs. Look at the Green Bay Packers. They were the first team to clinch a playoff spot and finished the regular season 15-1. The Giants went into Green Bay and DESTROYED the best team in the NFL in one of the hardest stadiums to play in. How can you say Tony Romo screw ups helped out the Giants? Week 17 with everything on the line for both the Giants and the Cowboys The Giants rolled over the Cowboys 31-14. The Giants jumped out to a 21-0 lead, and the game never really got close after that.
You make your argument that the Patriots went 13-3 in the regular season. One of those three losses came to the New York Giants in Foxboro Stadium. That means the Giants went into New England and beat the Patriots. Also the Patriots heading into the playoffs have beaten ZERO, yes ZERO teams with a winning record in the regular season. They beat Buffalo twice who was 6-10, Miami twice who was 6-10, Jets twice who were 8-8, San Diego who were 8-8, Oakland who were 8-8, Dallas who were 8-8, Denver who were 8-8, Philadelphia who was 8-8, Chiefs who were 7-9, Colts who were 2-14, and the Redskins who were 5-11. Yes those great New England Patriots haven't beaten a single team with a winning record all regular season long.
http://espn.go.com...

Superbowl wins are irrelevant as well. Dan Marino is quite possibly the best QB of all time, and he never won a Superbowl. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl with the Baltimore Ravens and you don't want to see how mediocre his statistics are.

The argument on defense is very flawed. The New York Giants were completely decimated by injuries during the regular season. Osi Umenyouri only played in 9 games this regular season, and in those 9 games he racked up NINE sacks. Justin Tuck only played in 12 games this season but was hurt throughout the season. He has been a completely different player down the stretch of the regular season. Almost everyone in the Giants secondary has missed at least a game this season at some point. The Giants defense is built off of their pass rush. Without Osi and Tuck the Giants weren't able to sustain pressure on the QB. Since Osi and Tuck have been back together the Giants Defense has allowed, 14, 14, 2, 20, 17 points. Those allowed were against the Jets, Cowboys in the regular season and the Falcons, Packers, and 49ers in the playoffs.
http://espn.go.com...
http://search.espn.go.com...

Pro Bowl argument is terrible, its fans voting. It is a popularity contest. How does Victor Cruz not make the probowl. He had 82 catches 1536 yards and 9 touchdowns this past season. In the NFC Cruz was 7th in catches, 2nd in yards, and tied for 5th in TDs.

The Giants rushing game argument is also very flawed. The Giants didn't have Bradshaw for a full season. He only played in 12 games. Also the Giants were a passing team. They were playing from behind most of the time which forced them to throw the ball.
imabench

Con

1) Expected to Win
The Pro has only responded to the Vegas issue, and Vegas, a gambling organization that guesses right on Super Bowl winners more than half of the time, picks the Pats to win over the Giants..... That and many notable other gamblers and predictors have almost unanimously lined up behind the Pats to win has not been addressed by the Pro....

2) The 7-7 argument
The Giants sneaked into the playoffs since every other team in their division sucked d*ck worse then they did, but the Pats earned their spot in the playoffs. Pats waltzed into the playoffs well ahead of everyone in their division (including the Jets who suck even more d*ck then any other NFL team), while the Giants crawled in at the last minute since the Eagles and Cowboys finished at 8-8.

Point is that the Pats earned their playoff spot by a nice margin while the Giants limped into the playoffs on a 9-7 record. You have a point that the regular season performance doesnt matter since the Pats won only against teams that were under .500, but what about the caliber of teams they LOST to....

Pats = Steelers, Lions, Bills: record of 28-20............................................. 2 out of 3 teams had winning records
Giants = Redskins, Seahawks, 49ers, Eagles, Saints, Packers, Redskins: record of 51-45........ 3 out of 7 teams had winning records

So of the teams that the Pats did lose to, two of them were very good teams and the only other was the Bills, the Giants though have lost to teams that are both over .500 and under .500 alike implying that only good teams can beat the patriots but that any team could beat the Giants (who lost to the 7-9 Redskins........... twice)

3) Brady vs Manning
Trent Dilfer and Dan Marino doesnt matter here, we are looking strictly at Tom Brady and Eli Manning's performances in the Superbowl and I see three Superbowls where Tom Brady led the Pats to three game winning drives and one time where nothing short of a miracle and pure luck when the Giants won their 1 Superbowl...

Pro has not addressed how Tom Brady is superior in almost every passing statistic career wise compared to Eli Manning, that Manning has thrown far more interceptions over his career than Tom Brady has, or that Tom Brady has a full letter grade better QB rating in his lifetime over Eli Manning, that Brady has a ton more TD's than Manning has, etc etc.

4) Defense
So the Giants defense is injury prone? Ok ok fair is fair their defensive numbers probably might have been better had they not had key injuries fair enough...... But the Con has conceded that the Giants are forced to punt WAAAAAY more than the patriots have and that the Pats defense can be strong.

5) Superbowl performance
The Con mashed this argument with point #3 and my argument still stands that in each of Brady's Superbowl wins they came about from pure skill and raw talent from Brady and the Pats wide receivers in 3 Superbowls they played in, Manning on the other hand looked like luck and a miracle was what led them down the field in his one and only Superbowl win.

6) The Pro Bowlers
Pro Bowlers are selected only partially through fans, the other half comes from coaches and player polls, so if Pro Bowl selection is a popularity contest, then let it show how NFL coaches and Players have more respect for Patriots players than Giants players.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

7) Coaches
Completely dropped by the Con....

8) Team Stats
Giants had their top running back for 12 out of 16 games this season (they had a bye week) and STILL finished LAST in the NFL in rushing, and you claim they had to since they are a passing team. Then how come if they (allegedly) are forced to pass way more than run are they still inferior to the Patriots in every passing category there is?

Pro's responses to my arguments:

1) They are actually expected to win - Only addresses the Vegas issue and does not address why every expert picked the Pats to win
2) The Giants at one point were 7-7 and barely made the playoffs - Says it doesnt matter
3) Tom Brady vs Eli Manning - Did not address how Brady is statistically better than Eli in every category
4) Patriots defense can be strong at critical times and is decent- Ignored by the Pro
5) Tom Brady has Superbowl experience - Should be ignored
6) Pro bowlers - Claims this is a popularity contest even though it is partially determined by NFL coaches and players who have more admiration for Pats players than Giants players
7) The Coaches - COMPLETELY ignored by the Pro
8) Team Stats - Claims that the Giants are forced to play the pass which is why their running game sucks but doesnt address how the Pats are better in every passing category and every rushing category compared to the Giants
Debate Round No. 2
jml5208

Pro

1) Just because gamblers, predictors have "unanimously" lined up to pick the Patriots does not mean that they will win. Also if you look at website who handles betting 57.51% are backing the New York Giants. This further proves your argument wrong since how could it be "unanimous" if more people are betting the Giants? http://contests.covers.com...

2) Compare divisions first. The NFC East had Giants 9-7, Eagles and Cowboys 8-8, Redskins 5-11. The AFC East had 13-3 Patriots, 8-8 Jets, 6-10 Dolphins and Bills. Therefore how can you say every other team in the Giants division "sucked" when the Patriots division was even worse. Who cares how you get into the playoffs as long as you make the playoffs. Once you are in the playoffs it is a whole new ballgame. It is a clean slate on the records. This playoffs the Giants are 3-0. They have beaten the defending Super Bowl Champions Green Bay Packers inside the Packers home field. Yes, the 15-1 Packers who were the best team in the NFL all season long. Also during this regular season the Giants went into New England and beat the Patriots giving them ONE of their three loses. You never responded to my argument that Yes the Patriots went 13-3 but who did they beat in the regular season. They had not beaten a team with a winning record the entire regular season. Yes the Giants had some bad loses but other then the Saints game they weren't blown out of a single game.

3) Brady vs Manning
Head to Head Eli is 2-1 vs Tom Brady. One of those wins were on the biggest stages in the world the Super Bowl. This was when 19-0 New England Patriots were heavily favored vs the lowly New York Giants. The Giants won that game on a late drive led by non other than Eli Manning. Guess what happened this regular season, Eli Manning led the Giants down the field in the final two minutes to beat the Patriots as well. You talk about pure luck. The patriots first super bowl win should have never happened. The "tuck rule" play should had been a fumble. The Raiders would have knelt the ball and the Patriots lose. This was the first lucky break the Patriots got that led to the dynasty. Also you cannot discount spygate. The Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since they were caught filming other teams. Yes the "GREAT" Patriots were caught cheating and filming other teams when they won their three super bowls under Tom Brady. Also stats don't tell the full story.

4) Your argument on defense makes ZERO sense. How can it affect the Giants defense if the Giants Offense has to punt more. New England notoriously goes for Fourth downs. Bill Belichick is a huge gambler. In the regular season meeting which the Giants beat the Patriots 24-20, the Giants punted 8 times whereas the Patriots punted 5 times. So what the Giants punted three more times, but guess what THEY WON THE GAME! Brady also had THREE turnovers.

5) Brady is 3-1 in the Super Bowl I will not deny that. Manning is 1-0. In SUPER BOWL XXXIX the Patriots beat the Eagles by three points. You say Brady won with skill and zero luck. Donovan McNabb had flu like symptoms and was throwing up during a key fourth quarter series. Terrell Owens the Eagles best wide receiver was playing with a steel rod in his leg.

6) Pro Bowlers goes off a name basis they do not look at the stats. Also look at the injured players for the Giants those are most of the Giants best players.

7) Coaches I'll give you Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. There is very little debate to that.

8) Why does it matter that the Giants were last in rushing the ball. Look at the playoffs, the Giants were running the ball well against TOP defenses. The Patriots gave up the most passing yards in NFL history this past season. The Giants can throw the ball against anyone. Now that the offense is the healthiest it had been all season. Eli will be able to throw at will versus the Patriots. The Patriots are also missing many players in their secondary. They are also missing many other players on the defensive side of the ball. Also look at the competition each team played.

The patriots defense has been carved up all season long. They made one lucky play on the pass to Lee Evans and that saved the game. Joe Flacco missed open wide receivers all game long. Look at when the Patriots played a team with a winning record. The Steelers and Giants in the regular season. Those teams shredded the Patriots defense. The Ravens missed many key plays to lose that game.

http://espn.go.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://espn.go.com...
imabench

Con

1) I said that notable predictors and gamblers are almost unanimously betting on the Pats to win. Nice try Pro....
List of sources showing the Pats are expected to win
http://espn.go.com...
http://www.sbnation.com...
http://www.cbssports.com...
http://articles.businessinsider.com...
http://accuscore.com...

2) I conceded that the Pats won every game against teams with losing records but i showed that the few times the Pats lost it was to teams that actually were good and had winning records. I then showed how several times the Giants lost to teams with records way worse than the Giants was.

Pats beat suckish teams but lose to good teams
Giants beat some decent teams but lose to really awful teams

3) The Brady vs Manning argument is to shown that Brady is fundamentally an all around better QB than Eli Manning. In response to that argument the Pro complains about the NFL rules and brings up how one time the Pats caught bad publicity for viewing tapes of the Jets in practice...

Con refuses to notice that Eli has thrown far fewer touchdowns, far more interceptions, and has a far worse QB rating than Tom Brady

4) " Your argument on defense makes ZERO sense"
How does showing statistics that the Pats get more interceptions than the Giants and that the Pats have an equal number of fumble recoveries than the Giants not make sense? You claimed the giants defense will help them I am showing that the Patriots defense statistically is just as good as the Giants defense it.

"How can it affect the Giants defense if the Giants Offense has to punt more"
It doesnt, Im showing how the Giants are way worse at getting first downs than the Patriots implying that the Giants defense struggles with converting first downs and has to punt more.... In the Superbowl the number of punts from both teams from the regular season implies the Pats defense could force the Giants to punt more often while the Patriots convert more first downs and thus score more often....

Now that Belichick knows what he should and shouldnt do against the Giants, he could very easily avoid past mistakes and play it safe against the Giants which could lead to a far different result in the Superbowl...

5) Your argument for why Tom Brady did not win Superbowls with skill is because McNabb was throwing up and because Terrell Owens (who is currently unemployed) had steel in his leg

I invite the Pro to explain why McNabb's poor health magically made Tom Brady a better passer during that game and during the two other Superbowls he won...

6) Then let the record show that the Patriots have a better name basis than the Giants and thus have more respect from both regular sports fans and other players and head coaches than the Giants. Let the record also show that the best Giants players are injury prone

7) Mkay

8) It matters that the Giants suck at running because 1) you claimed how the Giants would be able to run the ball all over the Pats in the opening round when I showed they cant. And 2) That means they now only have one way to score points (through the air), while the Pats still have the ability to attack the Giants defense through the air and the ground giving them another way to score touchdowns that Tom Coughlin is going to have to plan against while also figuring out a way to shut down Tom Brady and some of the best Tight Ends in the NFL....

"The patriots defense has been carved up all season long"
If your definition of "carved up all season long" means losing three times the whole season to decent teams then what do you call it when the Giants have been losing to teams worse than them all season long?

" Look at when the Patriots played a team with a winning record. The Steelers and Giants in the regular season. Those teams shredded the Patriots defense"
I noticed that the two times that actually has happened while watching the Giants during the regular season lose to the Redskins twice, along with the Eagles who were 8-8, the Seahawks who were also sub .500, and watching the Saints make the Giants Defense look like it was put together by middle schoolers.

Pro's responses to my arguments:

1) They are actually expected to win - Actually argued how one site has picked the Giants
2) The Giants at one point were 7-7 and barely made the playoffs - Argues the Pats had it better since they only win against bad teams while the Giants have been losing to bad teams all season
3) Tom Brady vs Eli Manning - Does not address how Brady whips Eli's *** at every passing category
4) Patriots defense can be strong at critical times and is decent- Argues that the Giants defense could be better if the players were not so injury prone and has only argued that the Pats defense stinks based on how they lost twice to better teams in the regular season while the Giants has lost many times to teams worse than them
5) Tom Brady has Superbowl experience - Argues that the reason why Tom Brady was so good in three Superbowls was because McNabb was having flu-like symptoms....
6) Pro bowlers - STILL Claims this is a popularity contest even though it is partially determined by NFL coaches and players who have more admiration for Pats players than Giants players
7) The Coaches - Honorably conceded
8) Team Stats - Focuses entirely on the defense and does not address how the Pats are superior offensive wise
Debate Round No. 3
jml5208

Pro

1) I clicked all of your links. They only talk about the Patriots being favorites on the spread nothing more. Just because they are favorites on the spread does not mean they will win.

2) If your a GREAT team you will beat other GREAT teams. Even going into the Super Bowl the Ravens have beaten ONE yes ONE team with a winning record. At this point the Giants losses are irrelevant because some of those loses were over 10 weeks ago. That was not the same Giants team.

3) SpyGate was more then just filming the Jets in practice. Nearly six months after the incident, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002,[8] an allegation denied by Belichick[7] and later retracted by the Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL.[9]
The NFL reached a deal with Walsh on April 23, 2008 and arranged a meeting between Goodell and Walsh.[10] Prior to the meeting, Walsh sent eight videotapes, containing opponents' coaches' signals from the 2000 through 2002 seasons, in accordance with the agreement.[11] Goodell and Walsh met on May 13, 2008, at which time Walsh told Goodell he and other Patriots employees were present at the Rams' walkthrough to set up video equipment for the game but that there was no tape of the walkthrough made; as a result, Goodell told the media no additional penalties would be brought against the Patriots.[12] Less than 24 hours later, the Herald issued an apology for the article about the alleged walkthrough tape.[13] That directly taken from http://en.wikipedia.org.... Please tell me how innocent your winning Patriots are.

4) Giants are actually 100% healthy this season. The Patriots will have Gronkowski their best red zone option and best tight end in football at max 75% due to a horrible ankle injury versus the Ravens.

Defensive Statistics
Yards Allowed:Giants 6022 versus the Patriots 6577
YPG: Giants 376.4 versus Patriots 411.1
Passing Yards Allowed: Giants 4082 versus Patriots 4703
PYG: Giants 255.1 versus Patriots 293.9
Rushing Yards: 1940 Giants versus 1874 Patriots
RYG: 121.3 Giants versus 117.1 Patriots
Points: 400 Giants versus 342 Patriots
PPG: Giants 25 versus Patriots 21.4
TAKEAWAYS: GIANTS 20 INT 11 FUMBLE, GIVEAWAYS: 16 INT 8 FUMBLE, NET GAIN +7
TAKEAWAYS: PATRIOTS 23 INT 11 FUMBLE, GIVEAWAYS: 12 INT, 5 FUMBLE NET GAIN +17

So for the regular season statistics the Patriots are more opportunistic. The stats clearly show that when the Patriots play a team with a winning record they will lose. Therefore it makes the positive stats gain for naught. The playoff statistics have clearly been in the Giants favor shutting down an explosive Falcons team to 0 points. Their only points were off of a safety. The Packers scored one touchdown during the game and two garbage time touchdowns. The 49ers points came off of two monster TD plays for over 40+ yards each.

You could make the same argument for Coughlin, you are giving him extra time to prepare for the Patriots. Coughlin with this win would be a surefire Hall of Fame Coach. There is a lot on the line for him as well. Giving the Patriots extra time surely didn't help them the last Super Bowl vs the Giants now did it?

3) Back to the Eli vs Brady debate. I was listening to Mad Dog Radio channel 86 on Sirius XM. They were debating Brady vs Eli today. In the playoffs this season Eli has been the much better Quarterback but overall this season Brady has been the better QB. Yes Brady is the #1 QB in the NFL, but Eli at the very worst is 5th overall behind Brady Peyton Brees and Rodgers. The Patriots don't have a massive QB difference like like they had their previous two games vs Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow. Those are two horrific QB's. To say Eli Manning is that bad and isn't near Brady is absurd. Yes Brady is better but your talking about the BEST QB in the NFL versus a TOP FIVE QB, how big of a difference could it really be?

5) They had the spygate vs the Rams they filmed the Rams walk through they knew the signals and calls the Rams would be making. They beat the Panthers with no problems, but the Eagles game was a bit lucky as I stated before.

6) The Giants best players had injuries this season that doesn't necessarily make them injury prone for one season with injuries. Also having the best players doesn't always mean you will win. Look at at Miami Heat last year, they had LeBron James, D-Wade, Chris Bosh and couldn't win the title. The Yankees have hall of famers everywhere and they didn't win the World Series last year.

8) The Giants running game will benefit greatly for the two week layoff. Bradshaw is playing with screws and rods in his feet thanks to injuries. The layoff can only help him. The Patriots are the worst team in the AFC versus the pass, the Giants will surely take advantage of this. Eli has been much better down the stretch at not turning the ball over. The Patriots gave up all the stats to lesser teams than the Giants played. Yes the Patriots went 13-3 but the three times they lost were to teams with a winning record. They were giving up yards and points to lesser competition.

Have the Patriots offensive line handle the Giants Pass rush. None of the teams the last 6 weeks have had an answer.
imabench

Con

1) Early Predictions,
"They only talk about the Patriots being favorites on the spread... Just because they are favorites on the spread does not mean they will win."

Is that so?

"Historically, the point-spread is an unmatched predictor of NFL games, Bell notes that the Vegas favorite has won 33 of 45 Super Bowls in NFL history, or 73 percent of the games played."
http://www.cbssports.com...

People who predict Superbowl winners based on the spread are right over 70% of the time, and this year it is the patriots who are favored on the spread.

2) 7-7 argument
"At this point the Giants losses are irrelevant because some of those loses were over 10 weeks ago. That was not the same Giants team."
Well the Patriot losses were over 10 weeks ago too but you get to use those but I cant argue the same thing about how the Giants have lost many games far inferior to them while the Pats only lose to teams that are actually good?

The point im trying to make is that the Giants this season are notorious for losing games to teams that are better than them and are NOT better than them. The Pats on the other hand have lost 2 of their 3 losses to teams ranked better than them. Of the Giants 7 losses, only 3 came from teams ranked better than them....

3) Brady vs Eli.
Pro has forfeited this argument and is now only copy pasting information about the spygate scandal that involved the Patriots illegal actions 4 years ago, and he is copy pasting his argument from a wikipedia article....

"Please tell me how innocent your winning Patriots are."
Im here to argue they will win, not that they were innocent 4 years ago. Allow me to get back to the main point of this argument you derailed,

Brady = 3 Superbowl wins
7 pro bowls
300 TDs for 115 Ints
A QB rating of 96.4

E. Manning = 1 Superbowl win
2 pro bowls
185 TDs for 129 Ints
A QB rating of 82.1

Brady is an A+ QB who has 2.61 TD's for every Int, Eli Manning is a B- QB who has 1.43 TD's for every Int..... Meaning that the Patriots have a huge advantage QB wise....

"Yes Brady is better but your talking about the BEST QB in the NFL" - Pro
Im not saying Eli is a bad QB (the stats might say that though) Im only arguing that between Brady and Eli, even you admit that Brady has an edge

4) Defensive statistics,
These are the DEFENSIVE stats for each team provided by the Pro

Yards Allowed:Giants 6022 versus the Patriots 6577
YPG: Giants 376.4 versus Patriots 411.1
(Giants give up sightly less yards per game defensively)

Passing Yards Allowed: Giants 4082 versus Patriots 4703
PYG: Giants 255.1 versus Patriots 293.9
(Giants give up slightly less passing yards per game)

Rushing Yards: 1940 Giants versus 1874 Patriots
RYG: 121.3 Giants versus 117.1 Patriots
(Giants give up slightly MORE rushing yards per game)

Points: 400 Giants versus 342 Patriots
PPG: Giants 25 versus Patriots 21.4
(Giants allow MORE points per game)

TAKEAWAYS: GIANTS 20 INT 11 FUMBLE, GIVEAWAYS: 16 INT 8 FUMBLE, NET GAIN +7
TAKEAWAYS: PATRIOTS 23 INT 11 FUMBLE, GIVEAWAYS: 12 INT, 5 FUMBLE NET GAIN +17
(Giants have FEWER takeaways than the Patriots)

"You could make the same argument for Coughlin, you are giving him extra time to prepare for the Patriots. Giving the Patriots extra time surely didn't help them the last Super Bowl vs the Giants now did it?"

I would like to inform the voters the Pro had already conceded that Bill Belichick was a better coach than Tom Coughlin
"Coaches I'll give you Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. There is very little debate to that." - Pro

5) Superbowl experience from Tom Brady
Pro keeps hiding behind spygate for why Brady performs so well.

Spygate was not the entire reason why the Pats beat the Rams, Panthers, or the Eagles, even the wikipedia source you copy-pasted doesnt claim that. My point stands about how Tom Brady does have the ability to lead his team to victory in last minute drives and how he has done this 3 times. Spygate also cant explain how Brady, who has been in 4 Superbowls, has more Superbowl experience than Manning, whose only been in 1.

6) Probowlers
Pro does not respond to how NFL coaches, players, and fans have more admiration and respect for Pats players than Giants players and only defends how "the Giants best players had injuries this season, that doesn't necessarily make them injury prone"
I thought it was pretty straight forward that a defense that through the season has suffered many injuries from its top players makes it an injury-prone defense....

"Also having the best players doesn't always mean you will win. Look at at Miami Heat last year, they had LeBron James, D-Wade, Chris Bosh and couldn't win the title."
True, and like your precious Giants they ALSO were riddled with injuries and, like the Giants, ALSO had their top players in the final game and STILL lost to a team lead primarily by a single player....

"The Yankees have hall of famers everywhere and they didn't win the World Series last year."
Giants have had great players too and they didnt even make the playoffs last year :)

7) Coaches
See point 3

8) Team Stats
The Pro has forfeited everything about how the Patriots are better in every offensive category against the Gians and he now only focuses on how the Giants running game might get better.

"The Giants running game will benefit greatly for the two week layoff. Bradshaw is playing with screws and rods in his feet thanks to injuries. The layoff can only help him"
Last round you were arguing that steel rods in ones leg was a reason why Tom Brady won the Superbowl against the Eagles, suddenly having screws and rods in the leg of the Giants rushing offense that finished dead last in yards per game all this season is suddenly a good thing? Also how could the layoff only help him if last time the Giants had a layoff the rushing game still sucked? Allow me to explain,

When the Giants had a bye week this season in week 7 they played the Dolphins in week 8 two weeks after their last game. Despite the long break guess how many rushing yards the 4-2 Giants had against the 0-6 Dolphins....

JUST 50 YARDS
http://en.wikipedia.org...

So How would a break make the Giants injured running backs better against the Patriots when the same thing happened against the Dolphins and the Giants only got 50 yards?

"The Patriots are the worst team in the AFC versus the pass"
And they still went 13-3 thanks to the incredible offense that is ranked better than the Giants offense in every category

"The Giants will surely take advantage of this"
Correction, this is the Giants only hope. They can only move the ball by going through the air since the rushing game is so dreadful.

"Eli has been much better down the stretch at not turning the ball over."
Hooray for being on a hot streak

"The Patriots gave up all the stats to lesser teams than the Giants played."
Not all of them, Even the ones you provided show how the Patriots performed better than the Giants in defense and have beaten the Giants offensivey in just about every category

" Yes the Patriots went 13-3 but the three times they lost were to teams with a winning record"
And the 7 times the Giants lost, they were to teams with winning and losing records.... As I have stated several timeas already

"Have the Patriots offensive line handle the Giants Pass rush. None of the teams the last 6 weeks have had an answer."
Allow me to translate this into English,
"How will the Pats offensive line handle the Giants Pass Rush. None of the teams the last 6 weeks have had an answer"
Ill answer your question with this question.

How will the Giants defense stop the Patriots Passing and Running game while the Pats defense forces far more turnovers than the Giants defense does, when the Giants offense is led by Manning who is inferior to Brady, when the Giants can only move the ball through the air because their run game stinks, and when the Giants defense is just now getting healthy, and when even you conceded that the Patriots are being led by a far better head coach....
Debate Round No. 4
jml5208

Pro

1) According to your statistics the Patriots should win this game 73% of the time, whereas the Giants should only 27%. You are making it out to be like if the Giants win it would be a 0.0001% chance to win. A 27% chance is just over 1/4th. Remember they only play the game once, therefore anything can happen. The Giants have been playing the best football over the last five weeks.

2) Look at when the Giants lost their games and who missed games. That will go a long way to show what happened. Injuries plagued the Giants all season long. They are the healthiest this game than they have been all season that will definitely help out the Giants. If you watch Giants football they notoriously play down to their competition. They always lose one or two games to inferior teams. The Giants have been on mission the last five weeks and it won't stop this week. The Patriots caught two huge breaks last week or they would be sitting home watching the Super Bowl from the golf course. The Lee Evans Touchdown should've been called a touchdown. He got both feet down in the endzone before the ball was stripped away. Also Billy Cundiff missed a chip shot field goal that would've sent the game into overtime. Your great Tom Brady played an AWFUL game. He even admitted in his post game press conference how bad he SUCKED!

3) Brady has an edge over Eli, as Brady is the best QB in the NFL, but Eli is no slouch the only quarter backs you can argue that are 100% better than him are Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady. The biggest thing here is who is playing better football down the stretch. Eli has played much better in these playoffs than Tom Brady as. Also the Spygate was relevant since you talked about how Brady earned and was never lucky in any of his Super Bowl Wins. You stated how Eli and the Giants were lucky. That is why that SpyGate is relevant. They knew exactly what play calls the Rams would have. They knew all their audibles, thus making it a slanted playing field because the Rams were the much better team that year.

4) Again your trying to twist my words. Belichick is the best coach in the NFL there is no debating that, but Tom Coughlin isn't a slouch. He is a top 5 coach. The only coaches you can say 100% that are better are Mike Tomlin of the Pittsburgh Steelers, Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots and who else? There isn't a clear cut #3 Head Coach in the NFL at the moment. I'll even make this easier lets say Coughlin is the FIFTH best Coach in the NFL. How much of a difference is it from 1 to 5. It may make a ONE point difference max. Remember it is the players who play the game not the coaches.

5) Also the Spygate was relevant since you talked about how Brady earned and was never lucky in any of his Super Bowl Wins. You stated how Eli and the Giants were lucky. That is why that SpyGate is relevant. They knew exactly what play calls the Rams would have. They knew all their audibles, thus making it a slanted playing field because the Rams were the much better team that year. Brady beat the Panthers with no problems. YOUR ARGUMENT IS WRONG. BRADY DID NOT LEAD THE PATRIOTS DOWN THE FIELD. "My point stands about how Tom Brady does have the ability to lead his team to victory in last minute drives and how he has done this 3 times." That is your exact quote from the last wrong. In the Eagles vs Patriots Super Bowl, the score was 24-14. The Eagles scored with 1:55 left on the Clock to make it 24-21, and the Eagles couldn't make the game winning drive. Please tell me how Brady led his team in a last minute drive in this game?

6) One time injuries does not make someone injury prone. Prone means likely to do something or suffer from something, especially something bad or harmful. This shows it is not a one time thing. How were the Heat riddled by injuries they lost fair and square to the Dallas Mavericks. No way was that a one man team with Dirk Nowitzki. Tyson Chandler was huge in that series because he was the big body the Heat couldn't beat. Also Dallas won that series as a team. This isn't a debate about Heat vs Mavericks. Your talking about the Giants not making the playoffs last year? What relevance does that have to do with anything? They are a completely different team. Also your beloved Patriots lost at home to a lesser New York Jets team.

Closing Arguments:
The keys to success in beating the Patriots:
1) Throw the ball down the field with success. Cruz and Nicks can easily exploit the Patriots Defense.
2) Hit/Rush/Get After Tom Brady. Giants have the best DL in Football with Osi, Tuck, JPP, etc.
3) Play a smart game and don't turn the ball over. Eli has ONE INT this PostSeason.

The Giants match up perfectly with the Patriots. All of the Giants Strengths are Patriots Weaknesses. The Patriots only thing they have going for them is Brady and Belichick. One player is not going to win the game for them.
imabench

Con

I honorably concede the debate to the Pro
I honorably apologize to all the Giants fans out there
I honorably apologize if I offended any Giants fan during this debate
I offer my congratulations to the Giants, they earned this
I apologize for talking so much sh*t about the Giants, they did not deserve it, and now i am eating my words
I thank the Pro for a very fun debate, you deserved this win

But to all of those DDO'ers who just now jumped onto the Giants bandwagon.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. F*CK ALL OF YA

I thank the Pro again for a great debate and I thank the voters for reading :)

Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LonnaNJ 5 years ago
LonnaNJ
Sorry Giselle..............LOL
Posted by LonnaNJ 5 years ago
LonnaNJ
From an Unbiased Giants fan. Patriots are coached well and one hell of a team. It's silly to base an argument on the NYG's sloppy start, especially when they are known as a comeback team. Great Points made by both, I think Pro critiqued his argument better. I think at this point the proof is in the pudding. :)
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
I was going to use my last argument showing the score of the pats winning had they won..... Didnt work out
Posted by cheesedingo1 5 years ago
cheesedingo1
well its kinda funny now because they already won.....
Posted by slappyyummy 5 years ago
slappyyummy
Everyone VOTE FOR CON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Emzoo123 5 years ago
Emzoo123
partriots shall winnnnnnnn! :D:DDD::D:DD::D:D =D =D =D =D
Posted by Joedeath161 5 years ago
Joedeath161
The Giants are more likely to lose than win in this superbowl. Since they won in 2007 it is expected for the patriots to win for rematch purposes. The Giants offense is good this season but their defense is pretty weak compared to 2007. Don't get me wrong I of all people are rooting for the Giants, there is just a very good possibility that they will not win this year
Posted by douglascody000 5 years ago
douglascody000
Gaints will win the superbowl for two reasons. TThere kicker has a sprained ankle so if comes down to game winner it anit gunna happen. And two the best reciver there tightend is hurt he will play but not at his best. So when you put the game changer into the mixed A.K.A "Cruz" The Giants will win.
Posted by Wigglz 5 years ago
Wigglz
Brady has lost the ability to throw the long ball accurately, the AFC Championship game it seemed like every time he threw it was almost picked or picked. The Giant's also ha much younger secondary than the Pats receiving core, experiance is important but they are much fresh. Eli has been on fire, Nicks cant seem to be stopped due to the fact his hands are friggan huge! Only way Pats win- Gronkowski destroys everybody
Posted by LonnaNJ 5 years ago
LonnaNJ
I think that Tom Brady will take home a Ring..........
................and if it persist for more than six hours after the Game, he should get some head X Rays in the Emergency Room so they can tell if it's tintinitus or a concusion.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by t-man 5 years ago
t-man
jml5208imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Giants won
Vote Placed by Koopin 5 years ago
Koopin
jml5208imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made a better arguement, Giants also won.