The Instigator
markyb69
Pro (for)
Losing
20 Points
The Contender
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Con (against)
Winning
97 Points

Global Warming is real, get over it.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+4
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/25/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,623 times Debate No: 5528
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (19)

 

markyb69

Pro

The planet is warming. There is too much scientific evidence to suggest otherwise.

People who refuse to accept this are not listening to the facts, and are just being plainly ignorant.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

The basic support for global warming is that temperatures are rising, and at the same time, greenhouse gases are too. This is a flawed support. My first point is that the form of this support is a common logical fallacy. According to the Encyclopedia of Errors in Reasoning, this fits a cum hoc, ergo propter hoc format. That is, it is saying that because two things occur together, they are causally related. This does not follow. As an example, a graph from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster shows that global temperatures have increased as the amount of pirates has decreased. They use this to prove that the decrease of piracy has caused global warming. Obviously this is not the case. This is the same format used to "prove" global warming. As CO2 and other gases have increased in the atmosphere, global temperatures have risen. It is a logical fallacy to say that they are in a causal relationship. So right off the bat, global warming is not supported by logic. Obviously, something is a little off here.

My next point is that temperature increase is not as dramatic as environmental groups would like you to think. For example, according to the Goddard Institute of Space Studies, global temperatures have only risen about 1 degree Fahrenheit since the end of the Little Ice Age, in 1880. That means we are only one degree warmer than a little Ice Age. Unfortunately, GISS data outside the US is not as accurate as GISS data in the States, and the GISS data from the US alone shows only a third of a degree increase. If the most accurate temperature collection system shows only a third of a degree increase from an ice age, is that really a cause for alarm?

Moving on, if we look at Vostok ice core samples from Antarctica, we see that the temperature cycles, and that the current temperature rise started about 25000 years ago, before any industrial pollution occurred. Also, today's temperatures are significantly lower than those that we have seen in other warm periods. Today's temperatures fit perfectly with temperature trends, and are not anomalous or unusual in any way.

My third point is that CO2 does not cause global temperatures to rise. The Vostok ice core samples which I mentioned earlier also allow scientists to measure CO2 changes in the atmosphere. What we often see, is that CO2 will not correspond with temperature changes, sometimes it goes up while the temperature goes down, and vice versa. Other times, temperature goes up, but CO2 doesn't rise for another thousand years or so. More recently, the GISS data shows a thirty year decrease in temperature in between 1940 and 1970, yet CO2 is rising at the same rate as today.

Fourth, according the SYR Appendix Glossary, the greenhouse effect works when the greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation emitted by the earth's surface, the atmosphere, and clouds, which they then send out from all sides, including towards the earth's surface. According to NASA climatologists, this means that the upper atmosphere should warm first. NASA has had satellites measuring the upper atmosphere since 1979. NASA satellites however, have shown that the upper atmosphere has maintained a fairly constant temperature since 1979, with a change of about .03 degrees Celsius.

My final point is that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is nowhere near enough to significantly change the earth's temperature. The Mauna Loa Observatory has measured the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere to be about 380 ppm. To put this in perspective, if the atmosphere was a football field, nitrogen would take up 76 yards. Another 20 yards or so would be filled by oxygen. 3.9 of the remaining yards would be filled by various other gases, mostly water vapor, not including CO2 or methane, methane would take up all of the remaining space, except for a pencil line thick space reserved for CO2. This analogy was from Michael Crichton's novel, State of Fear. A pencil thick line in a football field is virtually nothing. In fact, scientists Dr. John Christy of the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and Dr. Roy Spencer of NASA/Marshall published an article in Nature showing that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere could change earth's cooling processes by less than 1%. So, pretty much, the basic premise of global warming, that CO2 causes global temperatures to increase is completely unsupported by scientific fact.

I hope that was sufficient.
Debate Round No. 1
markyb69

Pro

Haha yes that was just about sufficient!

Firstly, to clear things up, i am not suggesting that the earth is warming because of the CO2 we are producing, because the amount we contribute (compared to the sea and cow's arses) is somewhat tiny.

I understand that yes, there is 'a low proportion of co2 in the atmosphere' compared to oxygen, nitrogen etc. However, the o-zone layer it reacts with is also minute, and still thinning in most areas across the globe.

Guess when 11 of the warmest 12 years since 1850 were? I understand that the earths climate changes periodically, (the UK used to be desert, and it feels like a long way from that today!). However, anyone clever enough to understand that the climate does change, should be wise to notice that it is right now.

You said, "If the most accurate temperature collection system shows only a third of a degree increase from an ice age, is that really a cause for alarm?"

Well i'm sure most people reading will appreciate that yes it probably is quite a lot to get worried about. Another point I should add is that 'average' climate change values are doubled near the poles. 1/3 of a degree in the sahara may not make much of a difference, but 2/3 of a degree near the poles, in such a short time??

In conclusion, there is not much we as a race can do to add to/detract from the rate at which the climate is changing. One thing we can do however, is accept that it is.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

"Guess when 11 of the warmest 12 years since 1850 were? I understand that the earths climate changes periodically, (the UK used to be desert, and it feels like a long way from that today!). However, anyone clever enough to understand that the climate does change, should be wise to notice that it is right now."

You know what 1850 was? The end of the Little Ice Age. Its only natural that it is occurring.

"Well i'm sure most people reading will appreciate that yes it probably is quite a lot to get worried about. Another point I should add is that 'average' climate change values are doubled near the poles. 1/3 of a degree in the sahara may not make much of a difference, but 2/3 of a degree near the poles, in such a short time??"

The poles are well below freezing, think -20 Celcius. 2/3 of a degree, not that significant. Also, Antartica has gotten on average colder. (GISS)

"In conclusion, there is not much we as a race can do to add to/detract from the rate at which the climate is changing. One thing we can do however, is accept that it is."

Climate change implies a significant shift in the way our climate works. There is no shift, as I have proven.
Debate Round No. 2
markyb69

Pro

"You know what 1850 was? The end of the Little Ice Age. Its only natural that it is occurring."

Temperatures after ice-ages will rise, but they do not normally rise by almost a degree in 150 years! It is an incredible rate of change (on a global scale) and points to something much more servere than 'only a little temperature rise'.

"The poles are well below freezing, think -20 Celcius. 2/3 of a degree, not that significant. Also, Antartica has gotten on average colder. (GISS)"

I've got no idea what GISS is, but i'm not sure there entirely accurate. The British Antarctic Survey has found the antarctic peninsula to be "one of the fastest warming parts of the planet". http://www.antarctica.ac.uk...

"Climate change implies a significant shift in the way our climate works. There is no shift, as I have proven."

The temperature is rising...this is the only way to begin a shift in the way the climate works.

I will leave you to suppose that, hyperthetically, you had to imagine a world where climate change was happening... what would you look for?
A sudden rise of temperatures? Yearly 'hottest year ever' awards? Polar ice caps beginning to melt? Hmm the reality isnt that far away is it.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

"Temperatures after ice-ages will rise, but they do not normally rise by almost a degree in 150 years! It is an incredible rate of change (on a global scale) and points to something much more servere than 'only a little temperature rise'."

1/3 of degree in 150 years actually. And you know why? Krakatoa, that big volcano in the Pacific, exploded in the 1600s, and this spewed ash into the air. Soon afterwords, global temperatures plummeted, drastically. (History Channel) Obviously a drastic rise is needed to counteract that sudden drop.

"I've got no idea what GISS is, but i'm not sure there entirely accurate. The British Antarctic Survey has found the antarctic peninsula to be "one of the fastest warming parts of the planet". http://www.antarctica.ac.uk...;

GISS is probably the most accurate temperature collection agency in the world. They monitor the southernmost temperature collection system in the world, at least that has been keeping records for more than 100 years, and the average rate of change at that temperature station has been -.1 degrees Centigrade. The data that most proponents of GW cite is simply the rate of change between the first point of data, and the most recent. However, that is a statistically incorrect method of analyzing data. Go to NASA if you want to find GISS, or read State of Fear, by Michael Crichton, he has the link in the appendix.

"The temperature is rising...this is the only way to begin a shift in the way the climate works."

http://en.wikipedia.org... Graph of global temperatures since 450000 years ago. Notice the current temperatures are by no means anomalous.

"I will leave you to suppose that, hyperthetically, you had to imagine a world where climate change was happening... what would you look for?
A sudden rise of temperatures? Yearly 'hottest year ever' awards? Polar ice caps beginning to melt? Hmm the reality isnt that far away is it."

Anomalies in long term temperature changes, upper atmosphere temperature shifts, need I say more?

My opponent dropped my points that the upper atmosphere has stayed constant in temperature, contrary to what the greenhouse effect would produce if it were causing warming, the fact that greenhouse gases have not increased significantly enough to change temperatures, and that current temperatures are not anomalous.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yakaspat 7 years ago
Yakaspat
Global Warming is not real. Get over it.
Posted by weather 7 years ago
weather
hey, markyb69, your good at tap dancing!
Posted by purplemustard03 8 years ago
purplemustard03
I think there is waaaay too much misinformation everywhere.

My best resource here is my dad's account. In the 50s and 60s, the biggest issue was not global warming, but global cooling! Everyone was worried that the next ice age was at our door. Consistently the 30s and 40s was about global warming.

Like yearly seasons, the earth has consistent climate change over periods over 15-20 years. Geology 101 will tell you that.. We slowly warm and cool over time, as reported by daily temperature measurements of the GISS. I say give it another 5-10 years and we'll all have a different attitude.

We can all find our own data to back us up, but if you want to make the best decision become a scientist and measure it yourself.. Or make your own graphs based on the GISS data.

Also, just a tid bit of info...
I've always noticed that NBC reports so much more on global warming issues than any other network. After a quick bit a research, you'll see that GE owns 80% of NBC Universal. It's not too crazy to think that NBC has been pushed to put out unreliable data for the benefit of their primary stockholder. The only think green about GE is money, but they would love for us all to believe we're going to die if we don't buy their energy efficient appliances...
Posted by Phil 8 years ago
Phil
This article has all of the FACTS you need to dispute the claim of "man-made" global warming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
Too bad LR4N's arguing against the greenhouse effect, and not against global warming, which is fact. The globe is currently warming, hence global warming. If you read PRO's r1, there's NOTHING about CO2 having an effect, he simply states, like the resolution states, that the planet is warming. If I could vote, I would vote PRO since CON agreed with PRO's R1 and with the resolution. Not saying PRO did a good job, because he didn't, but that's just how I see it.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Indubitably.
Posted by Sweatingjojo 8 years ago
Sweatingjojo
its okay, you still won.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
"YOU JUST DID THE CUM HOC, ERGO PROPTER HOc!"

Sorry. I keep forgetting to remove it from my copy pasta.
Posted by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
Global Warming is not real!

I could care less about what Al Gore says.
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
LR4...:
Well argued and excellent use of sources. Pro did a commendable job as well, but my vote leans Con.
19 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 6 years ago
Derek.Gunn
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by Awed 7 years ago
Awed
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Yakaspat 7 years ago
Yakaspat
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by LandonWalsh 7 years ago
LandonWalsh
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by purplemustard03 8 years ago
purplemustard03
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by ireallylovetsa 8 years ago
ireallylovetsa
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by mylifeismusic824 8 years ago
mylifeismusic824
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by KokeAndSoup 8 years ago
KokeAndSoup
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by magpie 8 years ago
magpie
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by Yummy_Noodles 8 years ago
Yummy_Noodles
markyb69LR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03