The Instigator
Miserlou
Pro (for)
Losing
40 Points
The Contender
solo
Con (against)
Winning
43 Points

God Can't be All Powerful All Knowing and All Good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/24/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 11,371 times Debate No: 2165
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (11)
Votes (22)

 

Miserlou

Pro

The traditional Judeo-Christian view of God is that he is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. However, this can't be. He can be two out of those three, but not all of them, because if he was then there shouldn't be any problems in the world.

I'll use an example of a murder taking place.

A)If God is all-powerful, then he has the ability to make happen whatever he wants, so he should be able to stop the murder.

B)If God is all-knowing then he knows that murder is going to take place and so can be prepared to stop it.

C)If God is all-good then there is no reason that he wouldn't want to stop the murder.

Thus, no murders would happen. But we know that they do, and so do a lot of other terrible things. Therefore, if there is a God (and for this I'll assume there is, it's just his nature we're debating) then he can't be all three of these things.
solo

Con

Hello Miserlou! Thanks for creating this debate. I agree with your line of thinking for the most part, but enjoy a challenge, so here goes nuthin':

<>

I disagree and so do the majority of his followers. You state that: "God Can't be All Powerful All Knowing and All Good", but I believe he "CAN" be and is all of those things.

<>

I will counter each point.

<>

God "CAN" stop the murder, but chooses not to do so.

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God "CAN" stop the murder that He knows is going to take place, but chooses not to do so.

<>

God IS all-good, but chooses not to stop it.

<>

Your expectations of God have no bearing on how He operates. When a Supreme Being can heal all wounds and traumas, and provide infinite happiness for all eternity, how much does murder matter? God "CAN" be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. God IS all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. That does not mean He has to meet your expectations; nor does it mean He has to meet the expectations of others. Our time on Earth is insignificant when compared to our afterlife. How will we be able to properly appreciate His love and gift of immortal bliss without the pain in a short Earthly life?

Just because God chooses not to expose Himself, as stated in the Bible, it does not mean He "can't" be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. It just means that He is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, but will not be baited into putting Himself on display.
Debate Round No. 1
Miserlou

Pro

Hi Solo! Thanks for taking up the debate and glad to finally debate you!

"God "CAN" stop the murder, but chooses not to do so."

"God "CAN" stop the murder that He knows is going to take place, but chooses not to do so."

Both of these support the idea that God isn't all-good. Why would he choose not to stop the murder (I'll address this point below)? This isn't necessarily the case, he could want to stop it but not know that it's happening, or not be able to. Two out of three are possible, but not all three, because if they are then there is nothing to stop God from fixing all of the worlds problems.

"God IS all-good, but chooses not to stop it."

I used the murder to represent anything "bad". Murder is something I think that everyone can agree is wrong, and more importantly one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou Shalt not Murder", so obviously God thinks that it is bad too (and there isn't a religion that doesn't condemn murder). And if God is all good AND is fully capable of preventing some tragedy then he will stop it, because he is good. One of these points have to give; either he doesn't know about it, can't stop it, or doesn't want to- and if he is all good he will want to.

You might bring up situations where a normally "bad" thing isn't; for the greater good or something like that. Let's say the assassination of a leader who God knows will one day cause a nuclear war. But if God is all powerful then he can prevent the assassination AND the nuclear war from happening- he can control all causes and effects so that there won't be a situation like that.

"That does not mean He has to meet your expectations; nor does it mean He has to meet the expectations of others."

I partially addressed this above. Earth certainly doesn't meet any religious person's idea of the perfect world, and because everyday things happen that are against the Bible and other religious doctrines I doubt that Earth is meeting God's expectations.

"Just because God chooses not to expose Himself, as stated in the Bible, it does not mean He "can't" be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. It just means that He is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, but will not be baited into putting Himself on display."

How would he be putting himself on display? He doesn't have to come down on a cloud with lightning to do something, he just has to do it.

"Our time on Earth is insignificant when compared to our afterlife. How will we be able to properly appreciate His love and gift of immortal bliss without the pain in a short Earthly life?"

According to the Bible, we were originally supposed to flourish in the Garden of Eden, but were cast out when Adam and Eve sinned. But if God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good then he will be able to stop sin. Causing people pain and suffering all so that he can be appreciated a little more sounds pretty selfish. My idea of heaven was that it was paradise no matter what your life on Earth was like. Why would God make us suffer on Earth, and potentially go to Hell, when it would be easy for him to give us all paradise all the time? Either he it wouldn't be easy for him, not all-knowing or all-powerful, or he doesn't want to because he's not all-good.
solo

Con

<>

God may not be good by your understanding, but that does not change the fact that He is. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, all at the same time. Murder is bad, as you say, but that does not mean that God is not be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good for not preventing such an act. If I slowly push a glass towards the end of a table, while you're watching, and it falls to the ground and breaks, does that make you a bad person? Let's assume that I even told you that I was going to break it. You're all-knowing in this instance, you have the power to stop it, and you feel you're a good person, but you didn't stop me. Why not? Because it didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It is the same for God. In his grand scheme of things, murder is what it is and He will deal with the guilty party in His own way, but ultimately the victim is rewarded. The murder victim gets to feel God's love from that point on and all is well in the Heavenly Universe.

<>

I don't agree, but I will get to that in just a moment.

<>

You are placing great importance on the Earthly body. You are also making assumptions about God's thought-process without His infinite wisdom. If God does not divinely intervene during the act of a murder, perhaps that victim is playing the role s/he was intended to play. Maybe God allowed this to happen so he could weed out the hell-bound. If corporeal existence were at the height of importance, wouldn't God exist in this form? Yes. Of course He would, but He does not and the realistic and logical conclusion must be because the corporeal existence is just a "pop quiz" until "the final" (Judgement Day).

<>

Again, a "pop quiz", where the Professor is not inclined to give His pupil the answers. (That's cheating.)

<>

Perhaps God's expectations are being met perfectly. Who are we to question God and His intentions? Do the custodial staff of a building tell the CEO how to operate the company? No. They clean up the messes and in turn collect a paycheck. It is the same in this case as well. We are God's eternal slaves and it should be our honor to take whatever He throws us to prove our worth. And when "payday" comes, He will reward us accordingly.

<>

By doing anything, it would mean that He had been goaded into action by His followers. Completely inappropriate. It is like surrendering to terrorism. No one puts God under their thumb -- no one.

<>

When raising children you need to be firm. You need to set boundaries. You need to educate in the ways of acceptable behavior. Perhaps this is all to prepare us for Heaven. Your suggestions are the same of Lucifer's and they were rejected. Why reward someone for no reason at all? Why? I does not make sense.

<>

That is so by your understanding. Perhaps when you've existed for an eon or two, you'll feel differently, but to Him, you are still an infant. To presume you are equal to God in intellect is at the height of flattery. Just because His actions are beyond your comprehension does not make Him incapable of being all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, all at the same time. It just means He doesn't feel obligated to expose us to information that may be detrimental to our future in eternal happiness.

Thanks for the debate Miserlou. It's been fun. Have a great weekend!
Debate Round No. 2
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ton113 2 years ago
ton113
so god can do all things but chooses not to do so. so he is an a hole.

the bible makes it seam and the people that preach about it make it seam like god will take care of everything. got a problem god will fix it. god loves you. well in my experience god never helped me. things have been going bad and strangely for years now. i depended on god for help and got nothing. my family and me are having a hard time in life. things always happen backward or opposite. when someone says on t v god loves you i change the channel. he fed the people why wouldn't he feed you. well why doesn't he.
is it my fault. i don't have enough "faith". come as you are all you need is faith the size of a mustard seed. blah blah blah. everything this society knows about god is wrong. god is an alien or something. this world is b s.
Posted by Gwydion777 3 years ago
Gwydion777
If God was able to stop bad things from happening, why are we here? We are here so that we will be prepared to go to heaven or hell, not to be "babied" by God and be protected from everything on this earth. Things happen for a reason that God designs to either bring more people to him, or to reveal His glory. The Pro is obviously mis-informed, or otherwise "Impaired" at understanding the God of the Bible.
Posted by Miserlou 9 years ago
Miserlou
C4747500: I will, I'll just probably be a day or so.

If life could be perfect-- truly perfect-- then I would give up free will for it. I'd give up my joy for choosing the right thing so that we could have no murders, wars, and so on

You say that God is not a super-hero, but if you say that he's All-powerful then he's better then a super hero.

Please understand that I'm not saying that God is not good, but that one of those points has to be untrue.
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
Free Will. Look it up. It would be a worthless existence if God simply made us all do what he wanted, don't ya think?
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
God gives us the free choice to do what we want. If we didn't have free will, we would all just be a bunch of robots doing the same thing without thinking for ourselves. It gives us so much more joy to do the right thing when we resist the temptation to do evil
Posted by madamep85 9 years ago
madamep85
i disagree with ur argument miserlou but i dont think solo answers u on the same level ure arguing on. solo u basically say gad is all 3 because he says he is and because he has the right to what he wants to. but essentially saying that already assumes he is all powerful.
Posted by dollarphotography.com 9 years ago
dollarphotography.com
GOD is not a super hero. GOD is a Being of LOVE and has given people the same power to love one another. if i decide to step out of love to harm another, i have free-will to do so. GOD is not a super hero. we have free will. love does not control.

love allows love to be love. there is no hate in love. theory: if a man decides to hate me because i choose to love you does not mean that GOD is not all powerful. it means you chose to act outside of the laws of love. GOD will judge all people whether they do good or evil.
Posted by C4747500 9 years ago
C4747500
Miserlou, I'll let you create it, presuming you'll be pro again?
Posted by Defenestrator 9 years ago
Defenestrator
Just as a point of information, there is a huge difference in the old-testament and new-testament versions of God. The old testament portrays a much more vengeful God who turned a man into a pillar of salt just for turning around, oh, and he also committed genocide by drowning the world. Also, the laws passed down by the old-testament god involve stoning insolent children to death.
The new-testament version of God is much more forgiving.

Either way though, great debate, in my opinion, the final argument by Con tipped the scale in his favor, but it was very close and very well argued and I enjoyed reading it.
Posted by Miserlou 9 years ago
Miserlou
C4747500, sure. Do you want to create the topic or should I?
22 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
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Vote Placed by tmhustler 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by bthr004 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by nitrogen85 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Sloan 9 years ago
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