The Instigator
leuvenwang
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
amigodana
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

God Does Not Exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
leuvenwang
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 655 times Debate No: 71820
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

leuvenwang

Pro

Hello amigodana, I saw your debate "god is false" and the fact that I am a strong atheist compelled me to challenge you to this debate.
My first argument is that the bible is based of letters that were written 2 thousand years ago and were changed through history. I'm not saying that I disagree with the moral guidlines in the people (eg. Do not kill) but I'm saying that the Bible is unreliable when it comes to historical facts.
amigodana

Con

I accept:

Lets first establish one contention; while as I agree that the bible has been twisted into many false words, there still remains One true Word.

(Psalms 12:7) "Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

My belief is that the King James Version is the only begotten son of God.

(John 1:14) "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

The Burden of Proof is on you to show material evidence to the effect that the One True Word is not truth.
Debate Round No. 1
leuvenwang

Pro

First of all, let me just say that no one has ever proved that God is real in the first place. No solid scientific proof has ever been delivered supporting this claim. Now personally, I believe in evolution and I know that many religious people might also believe in it. Is evolution a theory? No it is not. Scientists have proved that evolution is real by discovering fossils, comparing them to modern skeleton structures and through other geological means. Is there any sort of these kind of things supporting the existence of God? No. If there is and I don't know about it, feel free to present it and enlighten me. But to sum it up, this is what I'm trying to say:
  1. No one has ever proved that God existed in the first place so don't tell me to disprove it.
  2. There is no solid evidence that is reliable.

So I say to you: Prove to me that God existed in the first place before you tell me to disprove it.

amigodana

Con

Is truth absolute or is truth subjective?

In other words is there a final authoritative truth to every question or is every thing a lie built only upon lies?
Debate Round No. 2
leuvenwang

Pro

Truth is absolute. How can truth be built upon lies? There are real truths (facts that have been proved to be correct); and there are fake truths, (assumptions based on limited knowledge and shady theories). You still haven't answered my question.
amigodana

Con

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

You challenged me to a debate about whether God existed or not. Evolution and creation is a whole other debate, so lets stick to the initial challenge first and if you would like to change to the second debate, then challenge me later on that one. Lets finish this one first.

You agreed that there is a final authority and truth. Just as the scriptures above state; His Word is truth. And;

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There is as you agree a final Word of truth.

(1 John 5:7) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Why?

(John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

God is the Word of truth, so you agree that God exists.
Debate Round No. 3
leuvenwang

Pro

First of all, I'm using the basis of creation and evolution to question your Bible's authenticity and the existence of God so it is completely related. Once again you are using the Bible which as I have prior said, is unreliable. You are basing your arguments on a book written thousands of years ago by someone that you don't know. What proof do you have that the Bible is the word of God, not the work of some guy who was afraid of death?
amigodana

Con

And before you can argue His existence, you must verify WHO He is. You must define what and who either exists or does not exist. I will not argue that there are many different gods, but it is the God of the KJV bible that I believe, worship, and that I am claiming to exist.
So WHO does the KJV bible says God is?

(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

(1 John 5:7) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And since you can obtain and read the Words of the KJV bible then my God exists.
Debate Round No. 4
leuvenwang

Pro

The KJV Bible was completed in 1611. So if you lived in 1610 you wouldn't believe in God? And basically you are saying that just because you can read the Bible means you believe in God. You see, you aren't making any sense here. I have already pointed out that the Bible is unreliable and you agreed so why are you still using the Bible to prove your point?
amigodana

Con

I have not agreed with you on anything, what I say is that the bible is truth. The Word is truth. So dont twist my words hoping to slide a lie into this debate.

You would think that an atheist would have rational thought on this matter. If you want to know WHO someone is then you go to His words. And in order to determine if He exists you must know who it is you are looking for. There is only one rational way of finding that out. And since we have determined and you have not disputed that God is described by the definition given;

(1 John 5:7) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Then you also bare witness to the fact that God the Word does exist. It is just as simple as that.

I guess you have never heard of the textus receptus? We have always had the Word, passed down through different tongues and ages.
Debate Round No. 5
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
amigodana
What is the Almighty?

(Job 21:15) "What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?"

Is the Word God?

(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

(1 John 5:7) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Are we to worship the testimony?

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

What are your beliefs then?
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
amigodana
Then why are you having such a difficult time just giving me a straight answer. And No, as of yet you have not answered my questions directly.

How about I show this question to you in a different light then, since you are saying that your beliefs line up with scripture?

(Job 21:15) "What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?"

"What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?" Can you answer it now?
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Also, none of my beliefs about Him violate what scripture says about Him. So, I am not one of those people Romans 1:22 warns about.
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
He is the Christ. The Son of the living God.
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
amigodana
I promise, I am not trying to be rude but did you not understand my full question, did you read it?

Are you suggesting that he is like unto you and I then?

(Romans 1:22-23) "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

This is really not that difficult of a concept to understand, and therefore its a plain question to answer. I dont understand why you cant clarify WHO you believe in a little more that this. After all;

(1 Peter 3:15) "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Even Jesus asked His disciples this question, so I dont think that it is an unfair question to ask you.

(Mark 8:27) "" And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of C"sarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?"
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
I believe Jesus of Nazareth is God. I don't know how more plainly I can answer your question.
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
amigodana
And there are different Jesus's also.

(2 Corinthians 11:4) "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Which is why I am asking for clarification on which Jesus you might be speaking of.
Do you believe that the Word IS God?

OR, are you suggesting that he is like unto you and I?

(Romans 1:22-23) "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
I did clarify myself. The simple answer is "It depends.". It's like me asking " Are you a fan of Jimmy Johnson? ". Depending on which Jimmy Johnson I'm referring to (coach or NASCAR driver) your answer may be different.
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
amigodana
Clarify yourself ! Don't dance around so much !
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Well that depends on which "Word of God" you're referring to. If you are referring to Jesus, then yes.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ldow2000 1 year ago
ldow2000
leuvenwangamigodanaTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:20 
Reasons for voting decision: Not much debating here except over sources. Because of that, I'm going to give the source point to Pro because Con failed to support the reliability of the Bible. I won't give a point for arguments because it really depends on who you personally agree the way this round turned out.