The Instigator
emospongebob527
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
blackfirewolf
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

God Exists.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
emospongebob527
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 538 times Debate No: 28290
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (5)

 

emospongebob527

Pro

R1 is for acceptance.
blackfirewolf

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
emospongebob527

Pro

emospongebob527 forfeited this round.
blackfirewolf

Con

Pfft. I'll wait for my opponents argument first.
Debate Round No. 2
emospongebob527

Pro

Thanks to blackfirewolf for her willingness to debate this topic.

Arguments-

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

P1. Everything that begins to exist must have a cause.

P2. The universe began to exist.

C1. The universe must have a cause.

Defense of P1-

Premise 1 is perhaps the most compelling and irrefutable part of this argument, it remains so sound because everything that begins..... starts and to start is to come into existence, if one were to claim Premise 1 to be inductive they would be flying in the face of thousands of years of human observation and reasoning.

Defense of P2

Since this is the most controversial premise I can imagine Con will spend most of her time attempting to debunk this one. On the scientific side of the Universe being formed you have, "The Big Bang" which has stacked up well verified evidences and repetitive testing. Arguments that support this are the Red Shift, which shows that the Big Bang is still expanding due to a singularity collapse in on itself and exploding. On the other hand you have the philosophical side, which conduits a finite Universe is the only case because a eternal universe is unable to exist. I will attempt to prove P2 with an example; Infinite Dollar Bills

Infinite Dollar Bills-

A person takes an infinite amount of dollar bills and lines them up in a serial order. They then take out all of the dollar bills with even serial numbers, the result of this would be an infinite number of even numbered dollar bills. This is powerful logical farce, because this would mean infinity minus infinity equal infinity. This means that an inifinite, eternal universe is logically deductive and blindly applicable.

Conclusion-

We can logically conclude that from P1 and P2 + the overwhelming logical absurdity of and eternal universe, that God exists. And since nothing can logically create itself the cause must be outside of our contingent universe. The only things able to be exist outside of the universe are numbers and minds, absract objects. Numbers cannot viabally create something, ergo a mind did, God. Things strongly confirms the God hypothesis. I rest my case.


blackfirewolf

Con

Sorry I forfeit. Everything you just said goes WAY over my head. I'm pretty young and not exactly the brightest dog in the pack. This makes zero sense to me. Sorry.
Debate Round No. 3
emospongebob527

Pro

Well, that concludes today's wonderful debate, although I'm a bit upset at Con's concession, I'm glad to say the debate was fun! :)

Happy voting!
blackfirewolf

Con

So sorry again. Voters (if their are any) please vote for emospongebob since... well, just because he was the one to know what he was talking about! :)

(Thanks to my opponent for taking this so well. I'll try to do better next time. If there's a next time).
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by GOD-vs-ITSELF 3 years ago
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Narmak thx for taking the time. I hope this turns into a debate I like seeing William lane craigs arguments fail so easily.
Posted by narmak 3 years ago
narmak
you really cannot use this as a valid argument

first of all P1 IS TRUE but you cannot prove the universe began to exist there fore your p2 and p3 make absoloutely no sense at all.

first of all the big bang The matter required to make the universe was all there it was not created. !st law of thermodynamics states matter and energy cannot be created or detroyed so in terms of logic 0 never equals 1.

2 your saying its impossible to have an infinite past but you belive god existed forever? again either way you look at it god or the universe has an infinite past. that being said logically the universe does as again i refer to the first law of physics. 0 does not equal 1 so all matter and energy must have been always present and seeing as both exist within time and space the universe has always existed as the universe is made up of time space matter and energy.

3 God cannot exist because an omnipotent being cannot exist. two definitions for omnipotent

1 the ability to do anything even the logically absurd meaning all powerful
2 the ability to do everything logical again meaning all powerful

the first fails becuase an omnipotent being would be able to create something more powerful than himself but if thats the case the being is not omnipotent and if he cannot do such a thing he is not omnipotent because his power has limits.

2. if god wants to move somthing in the universe he would need 2 things 1 kinetic energy 2 mass. ex
Ek=1/2mv^2 if ek or m is o there is no velocity. F=ma if m is 0 there can be no force exerted. But god cannot be made up of matter or energy as he would have limits based on the matter/energy he is made up of.

as for your conclusion nothing can exist outside the universe as the term universe refers to EVERYTHING that exists and to have somthing exist outside of time is completely illogical because if something exists it would have to exist within some point of time. numbers the mind=brain and numbers are man made and dont e
Posted by narmak 3 years ago
narmak
you would assume an infinite past is impossible but you woule believe god existed forever? you do realize that no matter what always existed god/universe there is an infinite past
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by jh1234l 3 years ago
jh1234l
emospongebob527blackfirewolfTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Pro because Con conceded, arguments to Pro because Con did not make arguments.
Vote Placed by GorefordMaximillion 3 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
emospongebob527blackfirewolfTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: con conceded. Phantom, I bet alot of us would :) You can have the honors LOL. conduct is evened out (FF for emo and con taking a debate and immediately quitting )
Vote Placed by phantom 3 years ago
phantom
emospongebob527blackfirewolfTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit. I'd be happy to take this up if pro wants.
Vote Placed by Deathbeforedishonour 3 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
emospongebob527blackfirewolfTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Yeah
Vote Placed by emj32 3 years ago
emj32
emospongebob527blackfirewolfTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Ugh emo..