The Instigator
futurepresident7
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ThalesofMilesia
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

God Exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/30/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 478 times Debate No: 79169
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

futurepresident7

Pro

Rules and Structure

The debate rules are simple: no swearing, spamming, or insults. This debate is relatively unstructured. You must provide your support in each round and refute your opponent's arguments. I, as pro, will be arguing for the existence of a God. Con will be arguing against the existence of a God. I will be providing 2-4 arguments per turn plus rebuttal.



Argument from Causality


All things in the universe have a cause. This can be observed in nature. Nothing exists within physics that causes itself. Let's assume that the Big Bang is the force that created the universe. The condensed particles could not have created themselves without something to originate from. This creates a problem- locating the beginning. We also observe that nothing in this universe existed forever. All the evidence points to the existence of a Big Bang- a beginning. Therefore, this infinite line of caused causes can not continue. We also know in physics that nothing is uncaused. In order for those two to not contradict, there must be an uncaused cause, namely, God.



Argument from Contingency


If something exists, the things that cause it must also exist or have existed. For example, if a cat exists, then we know that a mother and a father must exist or have existed at some point. If cow milk exists, then a cow must exist. The universe exists. Therefore, the things necessary for the universe to exist. Like said before, nothing can create itself. We have no natural example of something that created itself. Therefore, this cause of the universe must exist outside of the laws of physics, namely, God.

ThalesofMilesia

Con

Thank you for this opportunity to debate. I would first like to lay a framework of sorts. Pro is suggesting that God exists. As such, the burden of proof falls entirely on their shoulders, since they are making a positive claim. I con, representing the belief that God does not exist (or at the very least that it is not reasonable to believe in God) must only refute the claims of my opponent. The primary evidence for my disbelief lies in the lack of evidence for the affirming sides position. I need not provide evidence for my side, no more than you would need to justify your disbelief in say, bigfoot. So, in order to win this debate, I must demonstrate that there are not any viable arguments for belief in God through refutation. If I do in fact manage to demonstrate this, you must vote con. (As you present arguments, I will attempt to refute them. Feel free to argue back or drop your arguments as you go)

Argument from Causality and Contingency:
You begin with an incredibly important sentence. "All things in the universe have a cause." The laws of causality is a phenomenon that has only been experience within this universe. Before the existence of this universe, how would such a law exist? While we are on the subject, let us discuss what you mean by "before the universe". The Big Bang theory states that it was then that all dimensions were created, namely space and time. Now, without the existence of time, the concept of "before" itself becomes meaningless. You cannot have before. It did not exist. It's sort of like saying "What's North of the North Pole?" The question becomes impossible to solve because the terminology being used can only be comprehended when functioning under the assumption that time exists. Remove time, and you remove before. So there you have it, the argument from causality becomes unintelligible when removing the baseline assumptions regarding the law of causality and the existence of time. Now, let's suppose for a moment that these issues were to be removed in their entirety. How would you get from," a first cause necessarily exists." To "the first cause is an anthropomorphic benevolent deity." That is quite the leap in reasoning. You plead causal exemption for God because a first cause is supposedly necessary, and yet the first cause could have just as easily have been the universe itself. The difference between these two answers are the universe has been observed, and God has not. You end with "the cause must exist outside the laws of physics". Before the universe there were no laws of physics, thus no restraints on causality. So the universe meets the minimum requirements for being a cause. It is the one thing which may cause itself. If God is exempt for supernatural reasons, the universe may be as well, for evidential reasons. I patiently await your next arguments. Having demonstrated the inherent issues in the arguments from causality and contingency, I urge you to vote con.
Debate Round No. 1
futurepresident7

Pro

futurepresident7 forfeited this round.
ThalesofMilesia

Con

I have no further arguments to make until you provide another reason to justify belief in God.
Debate Round No. 2
futurepresident7

Pro

futurepresident7 forfeited this round.
ThalesofMilesia

Con

ThalesofMilesia forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
futurepresident7

Pro

futurepresident7 forfeited this round.
ThalesofMilesia

Con

ThalesofMilesia forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
futurepresident7

Pro

futurepresident7 forfeited this round.
ThalesofMilesia

Con

ThalesofMilesia forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by NiceAwesumDude 1 year ago
NiceAwesumDude
Nice forfeiting, you guys debate often?
Posted by ThalesofMilesia 1 year ago
ThalesofMilesia
splew, I will note that a problem does still arise when free will begins to exist without the existence of evil (I.e. Heaven) I'm not entirely sure how free will is possible without evil.
Posted by ThalesofMilesia 1 year ago
ThalesofMilesia
splew, although I do not believe in God I believe I can provide a satisfactory answer to your question. According to many a theist, evil was not created by God directly, but arose out of the free will God allowed mankind. Evil is not an object,, but rather a course of actions men may choose to take. You might say that evil is a (weird instance to use this) a necessary evil. So long as men are free, evil will exist. Even as an atheist I find this answer a respectable defense. (That is not to say that it is reasonable to believe in God)
Posted by splew 1 year ago
splew
Yes I believe God does exist but do you think he is who he says he is? God created everything in this world so with that said he created evil. So isn't he just as evil as satan?
Posted by futurepresident7 1 year ago
futurepresident7
Sorry about that
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Such tiny font from Pro in first round....
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