The Instigator
MaxSchmidt181
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
helement
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

God Exists

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MaxSchmidt181
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 783 times Debate No: 85115
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (33)
Votes (1)

 

MaxSchmidt181

Pro

I am looking to debate someone and defend the position that God exists based on the philosophy I have been taught. Don't care about gender, age, or debating rank, I will challenge anyone :D.
helement

Con

God doesn't exist because of logic. In order for God to exist, there has to be a principle, just like how everything on Earth does. The fact that you are able to post on this website to talk about the existence of God is because someone in time decided to create a website that allowed its users to debate, not an all powerful being decided that, "Hm... Let my children talk about stuff." Also, if the bible contains words of God, that means God wants a window to have sex with all of her dead husband's brothers until they produce a male offspring. So tell me, how does God exist?
Debate Round No. 1
MaxSchmidt181

Pro

I will ground the existence of God using principles of logic in the form of syllogistic arguments. My first argument states that everything that has a beginning has a cause, the universe had a beginning, therefore the universe had a cause. I can prove that the universe had a beginning due to the big bang, and that the universe is expanding. If one looks into space with a spectroscope one would see all the stars in space in every direction is red, meaning the light they produce is moving outwards, concluding that the universe is expanding. If you take that light and rewind time the expanded universe shrinks until it reaches its beginning aka the big bang. Also it is impossible for the universe to be infinite, I will display a visualization of this below.

- - - - - - - - - - - A

Above lets say we are living at the moment of "A", if the universe was infinite there would be an infinite number of moments prior to "A", therefore it is impossible to reach "A". This is a philosophical impossibility, therefore the universe had a beginning, and everything that has a beginning has a cause. Also we as human beings are both potential and actual beings, because at one point we did not exist until we were born. God would have to be pure actuality, externally existing or timeless. Because if God were both a potential being and actual being, he would have had to be created by something, then one would ask who created that god? Or what about the god that created him? It creates in infinite regression similar to the example above that is philosophically impossible.

Now that I have grounded the fact the universe had a cause, I will now explain why that cause was God, everything that has a design has a designer, the universe has a design, therefore the universe had a designer. The only thing that can design something is a mind, which creates things that have purposes. We can see this intent through The anthropic principle which states that the universe is finely tuned in order to sustain life. Slight changes would destroy all life. Also through the idea of irreducible complexity, take the cell for example and how complicated it is, with all the organelles and proteins. These parts in cell display functionality, minds set functionality. It is virtually impossible for these principles to occur without a mind to create them.
helement

Con

What you are saying is that the "designer" of Earth had to be an actual being. The designer of Earth could have also been the big bang, which has actual proof behind it. Also, you said virtually impossible for the events to occur without a mindset behind them, but life is just full of coincidences. Yes, the probability of us being on Earth right now was slim, but it definitely is not impossible. Certain situations just click with others to form Earth as we know it today.
Debate Round No. 2
MaxSchmidt181

Pro

Ok well IF the big bang designed the earth, who designed the big bang? Everything that has a purpose has a design, the big bang had a purpose, therefore the big bang had a design. The big bang marked the beginning of our universe, and its purpose was to give our universe it's form/metaphysical existance through the components that make up our universe, time space and matter. You misread my earlier argument, the only thing that can design is a MIND. Take anything for example, a house who designed it? An architect, and a house displays purpose through that it provides a home and safety. Things cannot design themselves, also the only things that had a beginning can have a design, therefore therefore it is impossible for God to be designed as he is pure infinite actuality and uncased. Everything that has a design has a purpose, and one cannot say there is no purpose as that is a self defeating statement. Because if purpose does not exist then that statement has no purpose, making it irrelevant. What purpose does our universe have? Its purpose is to sustain our metaphysical existence. What purpose does Earth serve? Its purpose is again to give us a planet to live on.

You have provided no arguments to refute my syllogisms, you have only brought up questions that I have philosophically answered . I have given philosophical evidence for my claims, can you provide the same for your argument that life is just full of coincidences. Also you gave no response to my first syllogism, only the second, to win an argument you must destroy your opponent's arguments and prove your point, you have given my no proof that God does not exist, I have given you my main arguments which I will restate below so sum my point up again.

I will ground the existence of God using principles of logic in the form of syllogistic arguments. My first argument states that everything that has a beginning has a cause, the universe had a beginning, therefore the universe had a cause. I can prove that the universe had a beginning due to the big bang, and that the universe is expanding. If one looks into space with a spectroscope one would see all the stars in space in every direction is red, meaning the light they produce is moving outwards, concluding that the universe is expanding. If you take that light and rewind time the expanded universe shrinks until it reaches its beginning aka the big bang. Also it is impossible for the universe to be infinite, I will display a visualization of this below.

- - - - - - - - - - - A

Above lets say we are living at the moment of "A", if the universe was infinite there would be an infinite number of moments prior to "A", therefore it is impossible to reach "A". This is a philosophical impossibility, therefore the universe had a beginning, and everything that has a beginning has a cause. Also we as human beings are both potential and actual beings, because at one point we did not exist until we were born. God would have to be pure actuality, externally existing or timeless. Because if God were both a potential being and actual being, he would have had to be created by something, then one would ask who created that god? Or what about the god that created him? It creates in infinite regression similar to the example above that is philosophically impossible.

Now that I have grounded the fact the universe had a cause, I will now explain why that cause was God, everything that has a design has a designer, the universe has a design, therefore the universe had a designer. The only thing that can design something is a mind, which creates things that have purposes. We can see this intent through The anthropic principle which states that the universe is finely tuned in order to sustain life. Slight changes would destroy all life. Also through the idea of irreducible complexity, take the cell for example and how complicated it is, with all the organelles and proteins. These parts in cell display functionality, minds set functionality. It is virtually impossible for these principles to occur without a mind to create them.
helement

Con

helement forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MaxSchmidt181 10 months ago
MaxSchmidt181
@WaraiOtoko
I never said God exists outside our universe, picture a Circle, everything that exists, exists inside that circle, God is the circle. I never said that it is impossible comprehend this, I said it's difficult to comprehend. This explains why God would be omnipresent. If you read my main syllogisms and read this again it should make a lot more sense.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 10 months ago
Stonehe4rt
Here. I see what the real debate is now and so: The bible is more of a record of feats following God and major events. Anyhow whether God is physical or not is a easy answer. He is both! He came down as Jesus so he is physical but he also existed as not Jesus and within us all. The Bible states it well in one verse. God is Love. I do believe God is also the ultimate scientist as he made he universe but he exists in me and you and the stars in the sky and whatever else is beyond our universe if there is even anything beyond. He also exists in his realm of heaven on the throne with the Angels, he is also overlooking the realm of hell as Jesus, it is said Jesus was in hell for then 3 days he was dead to pay for our sins, a day is a thousand years and a thousand years are a day for God. Meaning time is irrelevant he is everywhere in time at the same time. People might say why did he let us sin then, well simple it's our choice, also God made us in the shadow of him and said if all men work together then anything is possible. Even making a choice that time doesn't dictate. Maybe God even purposely doesn't use his knowledge of the future. The question of this debate really should be "Where does God exist." And that is everywhere except for one thing. God cannot reside with Sin, so when filled with a sinful life with no care nor regret any wish to be forgiven then you simply will remain without God. God is everywhere except where he is not lol. Because Sin is simply the absence of God. Also there is no loop holes in the bible, it may seem that way by that's because we are still finding pieces of the puzzle. Every verse is a complex piece consisting of pieces we can guess at the big picture but will not know until we dig deeper. The Bible is very clear cut on what is good and bad though, those who make "loop holes" forsake parts they don't like and they will never have a full picture without all the pieces.
Posted by WaraiOtoko 10 months ago
WaraiOtoko
How can you say that if we can't comprehend anything outside our universe and pardon me if I'm misunderstanding but it seems like you're saying God exists outside our universe at least that seems to be the implication of your analogy.
Posted by MaxSchmidt181 10 months ago
MaxSchmidt181
@WaraiOtomk

God does not existence inside or outside our universe, he is existence itself everything exists in God it is a very difficult concept to understand, but picture 3 circles the outermost circle is God the second inner circle is our universe and the last inner circle is us individually. If you wanted to prove your existence, why not be existence itself.
Posted by helement 10 months ago
helement
@yavneh

Thanks for being so nice, but you had nothing to apologize for, you were simply stating your opinion. That's sort of where the Bible is weird to me because the words of God is sort of open to interpretation. That allows people to form loop holes of the Bible, correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't religion be voluntary? When people have to make loopholes in their own beliefs just to not "sin," that sort of redundant in my opinion.
Posted by WaraiOtoko 10 months ago
WaraiOtoko
I did not say God is not real I said it does not have to be real and if it exists outside of our universe it is an existence unexplainable with our tools within our universe because we do not understand what lies outside our universe. Now if you are arguing that God exists within our universe then that is a separate idea entirely.
Posted by WaraiOtoko 10 months ago
WaraiOtoko
fic"tion
G2;fikSH(ə)n/
noun
literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people.
Posted by Jerry947 10 months ago
Jerry947
@WaraiOtoko

Besides your assumptions about what is possible and about the nonexistence of God, why do you have reason to think that the Bible is fiction? Or do you just claim something is fiction because on your own presuppositions.
Posted by WaraiOtoko 10 months ago
WaraiOtoko
No God does not HAVE to be real, I suggested that it could be real but we can't apply our thoughts and our rules to define what it is. God may not even have what could be called a gender or any quality that we could understand because he exists outside of the universe. For example, an advanced alien race that can terraform planets and kickstart life through advanced artificial means would appear to humans as all powerful and godlike, but only in the context of within our universe. If God is the creator of the universe, we cannot use our abilities to define its existence and qualities. So we can't prove the existence of a god and definitely not with some dated text of fiction written within our universe about an existence outside of our universe.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 10 months ago
Stonehe4rt
Well the question is whether God is real or not, it is not about who he is. I could go into that but it would be based off my religious thoughts. However I believe we have come to the census God or a creator has to be real. Whether it is a being examining us or a being that loves us. God exists. However after all the crap God puts up from us if he didn't care for us then I'm surprised why we haven't been smoked out completely but instead are givin chance after chance. After all he has the Angels instead of us if he wanted, however he went down and found a loophole in the own law he wrote to save us. It's kinda like can God move an unmovable rock? Well God could but he doesn't, why because he made he rock to be unmovable and he plays by the same rules he gives us. If he was just looking down on us then he wouldn't lower himself to our level.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 10 months ago
dsjpk5
MaxSchmidt181helementTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to Pro.