The Instigator
cheesedingo1
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
TheBrorator
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

God Has commited most if not all of the 7 deadly sins.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
cheesedingo1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,735 times Debate No: 22215
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (6)

 

cheesedingo1

Pro

All will be explained when one accepts this debate. First round is acceptance. If you do accept, you must have knowledge of God and the bible, please.

Also, voters, please do not vote on weather you agree with your prior opinion, but on the arguments both convey. I am a catholic, but i like to have opinions. Please be open minded and do not vote just because you and your prior opinions disagree with me.

7 deadly sins: Sloth, greed, envy, Pride, gluttony, lust, and Wrath.

PREPARE FOR ALL OF YOUR MINDS TO BE BLOWN AND HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW OF EVERYTHING.
TheBrorator

Con

Challenge Accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
cheesedingo1

Pro

Ok, so lets Jump right into it. I will cover every Deadly sin and explain how God has gone against it.

Sloth: Disinclination to exertion; indolence; laziness.
This one of the 7 deadly sins is shown not in the bible, but in life. God is said to answer everyones prayers. He is said to help those who are in need of something. But people will argue that he only gives them what they need, not what they want. But isn't life a necessity? God gave us the basic necessity of life. That isn't questionable. But saying that it's ok to ignore prayers to keep people alive from cancer, TB, and other deadly diseases that STILL CAN BE HEALED? People will then argue that God was calling them to come to heaven. So then, if God gives them life, he can just take it with the whim of his hand. He will say he was calling them. So he is allowing people just to die and not answer prayers?

Greed: excessive or rapacious desire.
One word: Worship. Worship are what powers God. If he had no worship, he would cease to be regarded. He says he allows people to choose and not to choose, yet he greatly influences humanity to choose him. He shows how in the flood, moses was the only one saved, and the rest of the world was just doomed to die. Because they didn't worship him. Therefore, he is greedy for the worship that those give to him.

Envy: A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.
God is shown in the bible stating himself as being envyous.
http://www.biblegateway.com... 20%3A5. He himself admits that he is jelous. If he sees that some other god is getting worshipped, he kills those who apose him. He wishes for no one to worship anyone except himself. He doesnt allow other gods to be worshipped, like in the great flood. He killed everyone because they were turning away from him and decided to kill everyone except one christian family. He was jelous and killed off all that apose him.

Pride:a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
God was very prideful. He thought of himself as the deity of everything. While that is true, he wouldn't allow anyone to even try to match him.He strikes those down who wish to do so, and in turn blames the pride on them. For example, in the tower of babble story. He destroyed them for trying to meet God, and because of God's pride, he shmited them down and made them speak in different toungues, and blamed them calling them "Arrogant and Prideful".

Gluttony: gormandizing, intemperance, voracity, overindulgence. God is shown overindulging on our love. It ties along closely with greed, because he as an indulgence for our prayers and worship. Without those, he would be powerless.

Vanity/Wrath: strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire.
This one is shown the most by God. God is said to be "merciful" and "kind", yet he has killed so many. He killed the entire world with a flood. He ruined many people's lives in the old testament. He banished Cain for killing Able after he DELIBERATELY chose Able's offering over Cain's knowing he would kill his brother because of it. He caused disease, hate, and everything awful to happen to humanity, and he then blames all the sin, hate, and all things bad on the 2 beings that he created, Adam and Eve, because they were tempted by the Devil, the most pursuasive and caniving being to ever exist. Adam and Eve didn't know better, but God's WRATH struck them down and made humanity all born with sin.

Lust: This is the one that God did not commit. God is not lustful.
TheBrorator

Con

First, I would like to point out Pro's initial statement that "[he] will cover every Deadly sin and explain how God has gone against it." He doesn't do this, and therefore does not meet his own plan text. 
Pro should not be explaining why "God has gone against" the deadly sins. The resolution is that God has committed these sins.
Pro does not explain how God has gone against all of the deadly sins, he claims that God has not committed Lust.
Pro does not explain all of the deadly sins.
Secondly, I would like to attack each of Pro's points on the seven deadly sins.

Sloth: Disinclination to exertion; indolence; laziness.
This sin is not shown in the bible, says Pro, but in real life.
God does not create the cures to diseases, people do. All cures to diseases have been found by humans, not magically spun up by an all knowing creator. We humans have to learn and create to be able to cure the diseases that Pro lists off. So what if some of these diseases can be cured, the fact that we have life initially is so much more important than what happens during that life. If God is the one providing us with what we need, we cannot claim him lazy.
Just because God doesn't create as many miracles as Pro seems to want, the fact that Pro is able to live, by his idea, is the act of God. The fact that there are people that are able to create the cures for diseases is just enough. Essentially by providing life to these successful people, God does supply the cures, they just arise through different participants along the way.
Unless Pro can prove that God is an all-knowing, all-powerful being that is able to do pretty much anything for anyone, this point will have to be thrown out. Imagine being a God that has to answer billions of prayers, could you do it?
Greed: excessive or rapacious desire.
Pro states that worship is what, essentially, powers God. Worship is what allows God to do what he needs to do. If we worship God, he will more happily serve us because he will be able to. Of course he encourages worship, because it is both a sign of faith to him, and provides him with the power needed to do all he does.
If someone came up to you and asked for you for your house without paying for it, you wouldn't be able to give it to them. Sure, you could, but then again, where would you live. If you are providing essentialls to other people, you are not earning the essentials that you need. You give someone your house, and they have a house. However, you don't. Therefore, asking for money could not be considered greedy because you need to get a house too.
Yes, maybe only one was saved during the Great Flood, however, maybe God only received the worship from him enough to save him. No one knows how higher beings truly work. It could easily be that God needs a set amount of worship to save more people, if God did not receive the worship he needed to save everyone, naturally, they would not survive, and God would not have been able to control the situation as well.
Essentially, if God needs worship, he should get it. This is not the sin of greed. However, if you were asking for something that you didn't need, yes, you could be considered greedy. This isn't the case, though, and this point will be thrown out.
Lust: (Pro does not offer a definion, so I will use my own)
1.
intense sexual desire or appetite.
2.
uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3.
a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for ): a lust for power.
"This is the one that God did not commit. God is not lustful." I will concede to Pro's point here, and this argument will be dropped and defaulted to my position of the debate.

Envy: A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.
God is shown in the bible stating himself as being envyous.
http://www.biblegateway.com...... 20%3A5. He himself admits that he is jelous. If he sees that some other god is getting worshipped, he kills those who apose him. He wishes for no one to worship anyone except himself. He doesnt allow other gods to be worshipped, like in the great flood. He killed everyone because they were turning away from him and decided to kill everyone except one christian family. He was jelous and killed off all that apose him.

Pride:a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
God was very prideful. He thought of himself as the deity of everything. While that is true, he wouldn't allow anyone to even try to match him.He strikes those down who wish to do so, and in turn blames the pride on them. For example, in the tower of babble story. He destroyed them for trying to meet God, and because of God's pride, he shmited them down and made them speak in different toungues, and blamed them calling them "Arrogant and Prideful".

Gluttony: gormandizing, intemperance, voracity, overindulgence. God is shown overindulging on our love. It ties along closely with greed, because he as an indulgence for our prayers and worship. Without those, he would be powerless.

Vanity/Wrath: strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire.
This one is shown the most by God. God is said to be "merciful" and "kind", yet he has killed so many. He killed the entire world with a flood. He ruined many people's lives in the old testament. He banished Cain for killing Able after he DELIBERATELY chose Able's offering over Cain's knowing he would kill his brother because of it. He caused disease, hate, and everything awful to happen to humanity, and he then blames all the sin, hate, and all things bad on the 2 beings that he created, Adam and Eve, because they were tempted by the Devil, the most pursuasive and caniving being to ever exist. Adam and Eve didn't know better, but God's WRATH struck them down and made humanity all born with sin.
Debate Round No. 2
cheesedingo1

Pro

First of all, I would like to clarify several things. My oponent did not cover Envy, wrath, gluttony, or pride. He merely restated my argument word for word, so I asume he has no argument against them so those 4 sins remain strong.
My oponent coverd greed and sloth, and had an automatic win on lust because of my belief that God is not lustful. Assuming that he has an amazingly strong rebutle next argument to my attacks on his case for greed and sloth, he still only wins 3 of the sins. A 4 to 7 ratio is needed to win this debate, as stated in the resolution "most if not all". So by my oponent only covering 3 of the 7 sins, he himself does not uphold his argument at all, which would seem now that I would win by default.
My oponent also stated that I said that God "went against" these sins. I did and I apoligize, that was a poor wording of it, but I meant to say how he commited them.

Now, on to cover his case.

Sloth: My oponent seems to blame all the sickness in this world on humanity, but the majority of disease come from bugs and birds. We did not somehow infect these animals with the diseases, God made the animals have that. IF they developed over a long period of time, since God is all knowing and all seeing, he knows that the diseases would soon affect us and doesnt care. This ties along with wrath, which my oponent didn't cover, so Sloth goes to me. My oponenet also states that since im living is an act of God. Well, what if I have cancer, or diabetes? While i'm not bringing my personal life into it, my oponent thinks that as long as your living, your ok. God ingores our pleas for help and healing, therefore showing Sloth.

Greed: My oponents entire arguement is about how our prayers fuel him to help us. To heal us. As said in my arguments in sloth and wrath, he ignores us and often torments us, so the fuel we give him is going nowhere. He isn't giving back what we give him, which is exactly what greed is, "excessive desire". He desires it, and wants more, but doesn't give back, showing his greed.

I thank my oponent for his strong cases and for a good debate. Vote for AFF!
TheBrorator

Con


Okay, I'll start by attacking what Pro said in his intro to his last argument. After giving me CONSENT to post the rest of my case into the comments section because my mouse glitched and his "submit" instead of "make changes," Pro continues to argue that I did not cover "most" of the deadly sins. Pro obviously ignored that comment, even after he kept commenting after that. Because I was given consent BY PRO, this argument is still valid in this debate. Therefore, I have argued 4 sins. One of which was defaulted to me, one of which Pro did not attack at all, and two of which I am about to rebuild.

Sloth: Disinclination to exertion; indolence; laziness.

Pro completely misunderstands my point here. My point was about how God does cure diseases through us. No miracles that Pro is talking about seem to happen, but God does cure. To make my previous argument a little simpler.

1. Humans Cure Diseases
2. God Created Humans
3. God Created The Cure To Diseases.

It was as simple as that, but for some reason, Pro argues that I claimed that God did not create diseases, so his entire rebuttal will be thrown out as it did not attack my actual point.

Pro also argues that I claimed that just because we are alive, we are okay. I did not say this. This just ties back into my main point. Because we are alive we are able to cure diseases, therefore, just being alive allows us to do the work to help ourselves. We cannot be babied by a higher power, we need to fend for ourselves, as no one knows the extent or power of God. This brings me to my next point.

Greed: excessive or rapacious desire.

Yet again, Pro has chosen to argue something completely different from what my point really was. Worship powers God and allows him to help us and heal us, yes. But my main point was that God cannot always help us because he does not have enough power. If God gains power through worship, it can even be considered a payment for all he is able to do. Asking for Worship is not greedy of God because he needs it. The only reason that Pro can argue that God tortures us is because God does not receive enough worship, and therefore cannot help us as much as Pro claims he can.

Again, Pro argues a much different point that I, initially, did. His rebuttal will be thrown out.

Voting issues:
I have proven that God has not committed 4 of the 7 deadly sins.
I have proven the resolution false.
Pro has not attacked any of my initial points and argues them at a tangent.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TheBrorator 5 years ago
TheBrorator
I wear reading glasses, so sometimes I don't realize how small the type is for the readers. Sorry!
Posted by Ahmed.M 5 years ago
Ahmed.M
Why does you type con type like that in his first response? That's going to make someone blind...
Posted by TheBrorator 5 years ago
TheBrorator
If you knew not many people read the comments, why wouldn't you direct them to it in your own argument? It's not my fault you trapped me into that.
Posted by cheesedingo1 5 years ago
cheesedingo1
Ive hear that too, @Indauntiles. But i am a devout Catholic and it goes against my faith completely to argue that God has commited lust. I did this debate to show a different side to things to offer different opinions, but lust is considered the most henious of the 7 sins and i would not even like to think that God would do so.
Posted by Idauntiles 5 years ago
Idauntiles
Seems like Mary might be considered an example of lust. He clearly leaves no sign of penetration wherever he satisfies himself, so really He may have indulged in lust. Just a theory.
Posted by stubs 5 years ago
stubs
@cheesedingo1 I am interested in taking this topic if you would like to do another debate on this. If you want to just friend and msg me
Posted by cheesedingo1 5 years ago
cheesedingo1
Sorry, but next time, be sure you post in the stuff you mean too. It was a good debate, but not many voters read the comments. Otherwise a very good and fun debate!
Posted by TheBrorator 5 years ago
TheBrorator
dude, you completely ignored my comment.
Posted by TheBrorator 5 years ago
TheBrorator
It earns me the win, it's what proves the resolution false. Any let the voters decide whether or not it was okay. Just make sure you review everything I said before you try to default to your position.
Posted by cheesedingo1 5 years ago
cheesedingo1
just sayin, for future reference, its better to attack all of your oponenents points rather that just the majority needed to win.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: as the debate progressed, the BOP was not fulfilled and less then 4/7 sins where committed by god. Also pro had a major drop in arguments. All of cons first points where dropped.
Vote Placed by Multi_Pyrocytophage 5 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro showed that 6 of the 7 sins were commited by God. Essentially, that is most of the sins, giving Pro the win.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: A better debate than the resolution promised it to be. The resolution was for "most" of the seven sins, which would be four. I think Con ultimately won sloth and gluttony, where Pro did not meet the BoP. Pro concedes lust, so Pro wins 4-3. The question of why God would want to be worshipped is a serious one; it troubled Benjamin Franklin.
Vote Placed by ThePhilosophersDeduction 5 years ago
ThePhilosophersDeduction
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: The Bible says god is without sin. Conduct: Pro dropped Con's arg. on Gluttony. S/G: Obvious Args: neither args. made much sense, but a win to Con because of what the truth is. Sources: No citations, just links in args
Vote Placed by Beachgirly 5 years ago
Beachgirly
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:52 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made my entail opinion change very quickly in his debate.. I give you props Pro!
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
cheesedingo1TheBroratorTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro won on sloth, greed, envy, pride, gluttony, and wrath. Con actually agreed with much of what Pro offered. 6/7 = most of the deadly sins. Win for the Pro. Also, Con, please do not write in that font ever again. Or, if you like the font, make it larger 12-14 point.