The Instigator
donkey
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Chase226
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

God Set Man Up For Certain Failure

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 203 times Debate No: 94221
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

donkey

Con

First of all you don't really know if they understood good and evil. You are assuming something not in evidence.

However, Man did not need to know good and evil. God would have taught him which is which in time. Since God gave them a choice---obey or disobey. That points to their free will.

God is a perfect parent and no loving parent would set their child up for failure. l That would be ungodly.

All Adam and Eve needed to do was obey God. That is all any of us need to do.

Also, Adam was not deceived by Satan(I Tim 2:14). So he willing joined his bride in her sin because of his love for her. That is what Christ did for His bride. and for the same reason---LOVE
Chase226

Pro

The perfect parent does not effect a child will full free will and surrounded by temptation. God set us up for success but with success comes the chance of failure. If failure was not in life, what was the reason for Christs sacrifice up on the cross? There would be no need for judgement because there would be nothing wrong that could be judged. Romans 3 21-31 makes it clear that we fall short in the Glory of God, Christs sacrifice will end up saving us in the end. There is one sin Christ cannot forgive and that is denying him. With free will, that is very much possible. Mark 3 28-29. Man is set to fail, through Christ though we have a shepherd to guide us along the path, but having a shepherd does not mean we will not wander off.
Debate Round No. 1
donkey

Con

>>The perfect parent does not effect a child will full free will and surrounded by temptation.<>God set us up for success but with success comes the chance of failure. If failure was not in life, what was the reason for Christs sacrifice up on the cross? <>There would be no need for judgement because there would be nothing wrong that could be judged.<> Romans 3 21-31 makes it clear that we fall short in the Glory of God, Christs sacrifice will end up saving us in the end. <>There is one sin Christ cannot forgive and that is denying him.<> With free will, that is very much possible. <<

I come from the other side of the theological fence. Reformed theology teaches that God, not man determines who will be saved.

This doctrine is reinforced by 5 words: predestined, chosen, adopted(these three are mentioned in Eph 1:4-5), elected(Mk 13:22, and appointed(Acts 13:48).

WE were chosen before the foundation of the world, before we had done anything good or bad. God chose Jacob over Esau before they were born(Rom 9:11)..

We were given to Jesus by God(Jn 6:37-37).

Rom 9:16 -So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Mt 1:13 - Who were born not of blood, not of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of God.
Jn 6:44 - No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him...

Putting our spiritual birth on the context of natural birth teaches that man plays the same part in his spiritual birth as he did in his natural birth.

Now I know those on the other side of the fence have verses they believe support their position. How do we know which verses to accept as true?

For my information do you believe the Bib le is without error and do you accept sola scriptura?
Chase226

Pro

The Bible is without error, but humans are not. Humans have error, so that is where we need God and The Bible to guide us that is what you seem to be forgetting here. A person can reject all of it, but as long as that person comes back to the path, which is Christ, you can be forgiven and saved. The Bible brings up several points about being good in the eyes of God, humility, fearfulness, charity, forgiveness and love. To name a few, but as Christians this is what we strive to do everyday to be better people, not so we get brownie points with God. He knows the difference. There is one thing the be arrogant when it comes to God, that comes in a form of ignorance you do not understand how God works, then there is knowing,denying, manipulating and desecrating God, something Hitler did. Hitler in a sense could be called an Anti Christ, he knew the religion, he denied the religion for his own self serving ways, he killed millions and millions of people for no reason he was arrogant, boastful, mean and lived a life in a literal hell denying God during his whole reign. Now how can you still tell me that man cannot fail? Hitler Failed.
Hitler knew what was right, he knew what was wrong he chose to do what pleased him. He acted as if he was a god. You cannot be saved from hell if you did what he did.
You deny God, he will deny you.
If man was meant never to fail, there would be no suffering, there would be no living. We have choices to make during this life, with Christ we have a 99% chance of success, but we can still fail.
Debate Round No. 2
donkey

Con

The Bible is without error, but humans are not. Humans have error, so that is where we need God and The Bible to guide us that is what you seem to be forgetting here. A person can reject all of it, but as long as that person comes back to the path, which is Christ, you can be forgiven and saved. <<

Coudn'tjhave said it better myself

>>The Bible brings up several points about being good in the eyes of God, humility, fearfulness, charity, forgiveness and love. To name a few, but as Christians this is what we strive to do everyday to be better people, not so we get brownie points with God. He knows the difference.<<

Right. Love is the only motive God accepts(I Cor 13:1-3).

>> There is one thing the be arrogant when it comes to God, that comes in a form of ignorance you do not understand how God works, then there is knowing,denying, manipulating and desecrating God, something Hitler did. Hitler in a sense could be called an Anti Christ, he knew the religion, he denied the religion for his own self serving ways, he killed millions and millions of people for no reason he was arrogant, boastful, mean and lived a life in a literal hell denying God during his whole reign. Now how can you still tell me that man cannot fail? Hitler Failed.<<

I have never said man cannot fail. If I did I would be denying my own sins. The subject "God set man up for failoure." I rject that idea. Even good human parents would not set their children up for failure. We try to set them up for success. Our heavenly Father is much more loving than we frail humans.

Lk 11:13 - If you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Fatgher give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?

>>Hitler knew what was right, he knew what was wrong he chose to do what pleased him. He acted as if he was a god. You cannot be saved from hell if you did what he did.
You deny God, he will deny you.
If man was meant never to fail, there would be no suffering, there would be no living. We have choices to make during this life, with Christ we have a 99% chance of success, but we can still fail.<<

Thank goodness our failures do not disqualify us from entering the kingdom of heaven.

God knows what He has to work with---He is mindful that we are but dust(Ps 103:14)
Chase226

Pro

Our failures can prevent us, not disqualify, because we all get our judgement day before God. Not all of us will be saved, Matthew 7:21, we must live in accordance with his creed, not with our own creed. When reading The Bible the common theme persists, God will not break his covenant with us, he will show us the light and the light will bring us to salvation. When we read about the things that will separate us from God, they are personal, selfish behaviors. The 10 commandments, 10 rules we must follow, then the beatitudes, and finally the 7 deadly Sins. If there is no possiblity of failure than these lusts and sins would not be present in our lives, for 1 or 2 reasons.
Number 1 God did not put them on earth for man to discover.
Number 2 Man is built such in Gods image he does not discover these sins and the sins do not pass down from generation to generation.
Both of these are false, because greed, lust, gluttony, thievery and murder to name a few are all to common in our lives, it only took one sheep to leave the flock for more to follow. God is all great and ever knowing, but He gave us free will and tempted us with the Devil to do as we please in our lives. We know the path, what is right and what is wrong so actively choosing to do the wrong is denying God in your life and the lives of those around you so you can achieve temporary pleasure.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Emmarie 6 months ago
Emmarie
plagiarizing Dee-em from the forums I see. [http://www.debate.org...]
Posted by canis 6 months ago
canis
There is no god. But name one failure...
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