The Instigator
bobsatthepub
Pro (for)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
Agent_D
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

"God" did not create the universe.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,331 times Debate No: 3251
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (32)
Votes (18)

 

bobsatthepub

Pro

God has been around forever.
To represent forever we draw a circle, it has no beginning it has no end.
Take note of the circle, it never changes.
No matter how many laps you do the circle is going to stay the same.
As god is the circle, and god is all that was, god would never have changed, god would never have move forward, god would never have made a decision and thus would not have created the universe.
He would have been caught in a continuous loop of pointless existence.
Any questions?
Agent_D

Con

Peace be with you.
Ladies and gentlemen, let me remind you that my position as a christian is to deflect the question cited by my opponent. to wit:

"God has been around forever.
Take note of the circle, it never changes.
He would have been caught in a continuous loop of pointless existence."
for my opponent, God did not create the universe.

I agree that God is forever, Science give and prelude that everything is by "CHANCE". they claimed that all are made of entire non-organic matter, properly arrange by "CHANCE", and life exist. By reading this argument, it seems that it is a pointless existence as my opponent believe in. For them we are here by CHANCE. to summarize God did not create the universe.

One Question to rebuts the following belief:

a)By Chance or By Purpose?
- Why we are here? Who am I? What is my role in my society? Endless Why.
- For every effect there is a cause. Who cause everything? proper arrangement of planets, sun and stars. why these things are around to us?
- Can I choose my parents?
- Could my parents predict who will be me on my 20th birthday?
- Can science know that the next president will be born on this day?
- Did Science know that the destiny of a child or even the unborn child will be the next priest/pastor?
- WHY WE ARE ALL UNIQUE TO EACH OTHER?
- Who caused me to move towards to what I feel?
- Who caused the Big bang?
- 100,2002,212142,454796,47845464781 distance of sun from planet earth(Numbers are my own assumption),12354786546 earth from moon, 4579,1648,461 mars from jupiter? why? Why do we need moon?
- Why our brain never stops even if we are sleeping?
- WHY WE LOVE. (verb)

ERGO: Universe are here by PURPOSE not by CHANCE. We are here because of that purpose. God created us because He has purpose. Because of that purpose God Create a universe to exist His purpose. LIFE HAS A MEANING.
Debate Round No. 1
bobsatthepub

Pro

Thanks for the peace.

"for my opponent, God did not create the universe." = a very confused me, did you just agree with me or repeat the topic?

"I agree that God is forever"
Well this is good to know, by that logic he could not have created the universe.

Did you just make up an argument for me? Haha, I don't need it, I'm not debating chance. You argue that we are not here by chance, that we are here for a purpose, that's super, I love the idea, hell you could be right… still doesn't change the fact God didn't create the universe.

All your questions under "a)By Chance or By Purpose?" aren't relevant if god didn't create the universe… which he couldn't have due to my original point.

"Universe are here by PURPOSE not by CHANCE"

This is a statement, like… "cheese cake is the best" it doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean God created the universe.

"We are here because of that purpose."

Still doesn't mean God created the universe.

"God created us because He has purpose."

Repeat above.

"Because of that purpose God Create a universe to exist His purpose."

Just reread my original statement, I believe it proves God could not have created the universe, can you rebut it?

"LIFE HAS A MEANING."

Beautifully put, yet not the debate.
Agent_D

Con

Im sorry to tell you that you're not a professional debater. All your answers are so called redherring!

Let me realign the topic. "God did not created the universe" Have you ever wonder or even ask your self the main core of this topic? It's all about God and his action. ( X=noun(God) then Y=verb(did or did not create) A=noun(universe)/or we could say that A is a result of X action Y) In order for me to debunked your argument, I have to discredit the Y(did not create)A(universe), HOW WILL I DO THAT? To emphasis the X(God).BECAUSE THIS IS THE PROPER ARGUMENT AND MAIN CORE. IT IS ALL ABOUT GOD'S ACTION NOT THE UNIVERSE PERSE.

SORRY YOU MADE ME LAUGH HAHAHAHA.
Debate Round No. 2
bobsatthepub

Pro

I accept your apology.

Have I ever wonder or even asked myself the main core of this topic?

Well yes, I would say it's all about God and his action… his action being creating the universe.
I don't care if god does exist, I don't care if god created man, I don't care if god gave us free will, all I care about is if god created the universe.

I am arguing that he didn't. Why? Because he couldn't have, why… well…

Because "God is forever", forever never changes, it repeats itself. For God to decide to create the universe he would have to have a trigger, a trigger that couldn't exist.
No trigger means no decision to create the universe

You should be arguing that God did create the universe. That being the opposite to "God did not create the universe" and that is the point I am arguing.

Here is a hint, tell me how God could reach the point of deciding to create the universe after an eternity of not doing it.

Every point you make about "life meaning" etc is to no advancement if you can not get past the point of creation.

I am waiting for my opponent to bring forward a way for God to have created the universe. All I have seen so far is questions put forward about life meaning As it stands, I see no reason to be persuade to his side.

I would like to propose a scenario. Place something in front of you and don't touch it. Notice how the item does not move. It will stay like this until something else interferes with it. Be it a hand, wind, anything. But if this object was all that was, then there would be nothing to interfere with it's stationary position. This object is God, if God has been around forever, if God had nothing to interfere him he would never changed. He would never have created the universe.
Agent_D

Con

To My friend,

"if God has been around forever, if God had nothing to interfere him he would never changed. He would never have created the universe."

This has a Theological answers. (We need to disect this)

"God has been around forever"

-Time never exist when you are in the outer space. imagine that in an outer space no day or night, no days or weeks nor months or years.We cannot say that morning start at 12:00am nor we have 24hours to complete a day, seven days a week.....so on. That's why we cannot conclude or to questions why He took Him so long to create the universe.(once again, pardon me to insist His purpose.)

to summarize this, no Sun that set a time nor moon, stars or planet that would dictate the word "time", so Forever is not a time.

"if God had nothing to interfere him he would never changed."

-Again, God is a Omnipower to all.(for who believes in Him-like me). He never need anything/anyone to interfere. He has a decision even a purpose that an ordinary brain of man cannot hold. If someone/something that interfere God, then we cannot say that he is God. He might be a servant. and by showing that he is not God, then who is God again? Ring Question..round and round and round.

"He would never have created the universe."

-by citing the prelude,
God is forever because no "time" that has been set;
God needs no one to interfere Him because he is God not a servant;
ergo(Therefore) HE HAVE CREATED THE UNIVERSE.by purpose not by chance.

God bless.
Debate Round No. 3
32 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
ok. enjoy in your activities.
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
Uh okay. =)
I'll get back to you, I'm going camping in a few days so things might get complicated, I'll approach you when I get back, thanks.
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
If you want to continue this topic in a formal debate, im willing to.
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
your proposal confuses me...
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
ok. if you want another debate that will put at least fact, Im willing of it. thanks
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
I insist there is a loop. I continue to insist this.

You insist there is an uncaused, you continue to insist this.

Yet you say the big bang can not be true because it had to have something to begin with, as it stands YOU believe the big bang occurring would have been an uncaused.

You state that your theory of an uncaused being God is correct because it had to or something, yet you insist that the theory of the big bang you have can not be correct because it is an uncaused.

your correct because you believe in an uncaused
the big bang is incorrect because it is an uncaused

I don't care about the big bang.

I am not representing this science you keep speaking of, I am not representing the big bang. I am representing me and my understanding. I am yet to hear how you believe something can occur after an eternity of it not occurring.

I do NOT know all the facts about atoms. I am suggesting that the electrons, being the energy, energy being what everything consists of was once perfectly stable and spread along the universe. I am suggesting that this was disturbed as explained in my previous SUGGESTIONS and they are only that, suggestions.
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
and where did proton, electron and neutron came from? and what is the compostion of these things to exist?
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
In a layman terms: you insist with a loop that already exist.

Two cookies exist, one is choco flavor and the other is cherry flavor. My friend, Did these two cookies exist right away? of course not. To have/make a cookies we need flour, baking soda, sugar, egg etc. Sugar is compose of sucrose etc. Infinite Cause... so each cause is an effect of the other. So how can we stop the cause... we need to have UNCAUSED THAT NOT NEED A CAUSE TO EXIST.

Two universe that exist right away? what are the composition of these two?
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
So my suggestion seems as illogical as yours?
We agree, God could not have created the universe for the same reason?
Super.

You speak of science as if it is one person, that is ludicrous. Science is evolving all the time ideas are changing, do not get worked up over one little point.

Grasp the concept of a never ending time, there has to be something for there to be something and without something there is nothing, it is impossible for nothing to become something and thus there always had to be something. Suggesting a loop.

Where did the elements come from? Well I'm not completely sure but I am fairly confident they came from a few things called protons neutrons and electrons.

I repeat saying creationism makes more sense is hypocrisy, if you wish to argue against my point you are intern rendering your argument useless.
Posted by Agent_D 9 years ago
Agent_D
Well, your suggestions are seems illogical. Loop will and will never occur without the basic elements.

"2 parallel universes equally dispersed in energy are pulled towards each other".
Here, you are talking not the beginning. Universe my friend according to science is an effect of Bigbang.

If you will insist that there is already two universe, my questions would be like this, Who cause these universe to be a universe? We both believed that universe is a composition of elements, so Where did the elements of a universe came from?
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Vote Placed by draxxt 9 years ago
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