The Instigator
zezima
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
atheismo
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

God does exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 559 times Debate No: 31137
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

zezima

Pro

God does exist. A higher being. Personally I'm am Christian, but I will be talking about any one God. You can start right away.
atheismo

Con

p1) everything which is sentience has a cause
p2) the Judeo-Christian god is sentient
p3) therefore the Judeo-Crhstian god has a cause

Well we know p1 is true through everyday life. Sentience is obviously a complicated thing, and something that is complicated needs something else to give it that complexity. So sentience has a cause.

p2 is true because multiple times in the Bible god talks to the Jews, etc, and is loving, etc. all which basically implies that he has a conscious mind, or sentience.

Some Christians like on yahoo answers say that God is just god, and doesn't need a cause.

http://answers.yahoo.com...
http://answers.yahoo.com...
http://answers.yahoo.com...

This is just cherry-picking because they're saying the Universe needs a cause but not God.

Some people on the religion forum here on debate.org have said that it doesn't really prove that god doesn't exist, just that he needs a cause. Well god is not supposed to have a cause, but clearly god needs a cause because he's sentient. So this is a contradiction. Anything with a contradiction can't exist

http://www.spurgeon.org...

So god can't exist if he doesn't need a cause but is also sentient
Debate Round No. 1
zezima

Pro

I'm confused, are you saying the universe had to have a cause?
And your right, God needs a cause, at least in our understanding.
The universe had to of have had a beginning. This is because in our logic, it had to, if there was no God.
With a higher being outside of our understanding, there doesn't have to be a cause because there is a greater understanding.
If you say the universe has no cause, and it exist, that is a contradiction, therefore we don't exist.
atheismo

Con

no I don't believe the universe has a cause. the Universe having a cause was invented by theists. I believe in the big bang but I think the Universe never had a cause, it doesn't need one.

i'm saying that if god exists, and god is supposed to be all powerful and not have a creator etc then this contradicts with god having sentience because having sentience means you have a cause like I said before.

if you believe god has a cause then you're saying god needs something before he can exist which means he's not as all opwerful as christians make him out to be. so God needs a creator if god exists, but god cant exist because he cant have a creator
Debate Round No. 2
zezima

Pro

So your saying the universe can't exist because it didn't have a creator.
What was before the big bang?
What was before that?
The universe had to have a beginning, because with out a beginning, that means there has been an unlimited amount of time, meaning that today would never have happened. Time can only go one way, and that is forward, so it must be going or moving from something. What is it moving from? It is moving forward from the beginning.
Please tell me in the next round if you believe there was a beginning in time.
And you can't say it is possible to go back in time, because it is not proven. When something is not proven, you can't say it is true because "man" is the highest mind set and understands the most. So what we don't know, no one knows. Therefore anything you say that is a theory is quite pointless.
Now are you saying that the universe was an accident?
atheismo

Con

no I never said the universe can't exist, obviously it does, we see the world around us etc.

There was nothing before the Universe, lawrence kraus proved this in his book "A Universe from Nothing"
http://www.amazon.com...

Yes the universe was an accident, lawrence krauss proved that a Unverse can come from quantum foam, nothingness. It was just a random particle that created the Universe. We already know that things from nothing when particles are created etc.

like I said earlier in the debate, god can't exist, because god is supposed to not have a creator, but since he is sentient he must have a creator. And this is a contradiction in god so he can't exist.
Debate Round No. 3
zezima

Pro

So you"re saying the universe can come from nothing, but the almighty God cant?
Also I can"t really take a look at the book, I don"t own it, nor do I feel like buying it for this debate. But what I can say is that what he says is not proven. And you really have to think to yourself, is this all really an accident? How many accidents does it take for all of us to get here? You really think all this came from a particle?
This would involve millions of coincidences and luck and chance and many accidents for all this to turn out how it is. I find the fact that just thinking of it like this is proof enough that there had to be some kind of higher being, one that at least loved enough to create us.
I believe we came from an almighty God, not some dust particles.
Ill explain more in the next round
atheismo

Con

atheismo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
zezima

Pro

I assume your not going to answer?
atheismo

Con

atheismo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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