The Instigator
roark555
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
CountCheechula
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

God does not exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
roark555
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/1/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 988 times Debate No: 59828
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (29)
Votes (3)

 

roark555

Pro

This is how I define God: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
I am an Atheist ( a former catholic) and would like to discuss.
CountCheechula

Con

I would be honored to discuss and I gladly accept to defend God, and please questions, concerns, thoughts.
Debate Round No. 1
roark555

Pro

I'm going to start out with some basic principles. In the law of identity and none contradiction, Aristotle said (Poor paraphrase here) that which is A can't be both A and non A. This is one of the foundations of modern science. From this statement we are able to discern truth from non truth. For example, a kangaroo is a kangaroo, and a rock is a rock. But a kangaroo isn't simultaneously a rock . By the same coin, you can have a circle or a square, but not a square circle, because that is a contradiction in terms. And by that same logic, you cannot be both all powerful and all knowing, because you can have absolute knowledge about what will happen, but then the next day, being all powerful change your mind, therefore invalidating your knowledge. It is a paradox. That which is a contradiction is a synonym for that which does not exist. The idea of God (Capital G ) is a contradiction.So when you say god exists, you are saying that which does not exist exists.Looking forward to more.
CountCheechula

Con

God is all powerful but cannot be all knowing, if He was all knowing He would of never created Lucifer and would of already knew that plan A Israel being the beacon to the rest of the world would of failed so then He made plan B Jesus Christ. Also we are only human beings, basically animals with a language, no man can understand not a speak of God's thoughts and emotions. We truly are horrible and stupid beings that always think we can figure out God and truly get the answers yet truly it is not our job. We should focus on the environment or others less fortunate and stop pondering and undermine an all powerful God.
I am pleased to hear more!

When God hears the tyranny of little men He chuckles and squashes them to dust, and they are no more - Francesco Tredinari
Debate Round No. 2
roark555

Pro

Oh really? Well I have 6 Bible verses that disagree with you: Job 37:16, Psalm 147:5, 1 Samuel 2:3, 1 John 3:19-20, Isaiah 46:9, Psalm 139:4. And if it's impossible to understand God because he is all powerful, then why do you worship him? How can you claim to know or understand what he wants? Are you that special? I say no. Saying he is beyond our grasp is the equivalent of throwing your hands in the air and making armpit farts. It's a cop out. You're basically saying " I have no real rebuttal but god done did it anyway." It is impossible for that which does not exist to exist. The same as square circles.
Because we have only 5 rounds, I would like to pose two questions(technically 3), and I apologize if there isn't enough space, we couls always pick it up in the comments. I'm kicking myself for only making it 1000 characters.
1. Why do you believe in a God?And how are you sure that it's the Yahweh and not Zeus?
2. Why should I believe as you do?
(side note:are you a creationist?)
CountCheechula

Con

God wants us to love him because he gave us life. I do not worship God I have relationship with God. He is my father and we are his children. We truly have no idea what he thinks or what he wants because he made us, he made a world that works so great and with such equilibrium it is astounding.
I believe because I have read almost of the Bible, Quran and other books on Buddhism and life in general. And I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is the truth and I firmly believe in the teachings of Christ and his biographies. Also I think a super-intelligent being must have created the universe, we are not here for nothing. God clearly says there shall be no other gods before me so he is not Zeus also because the Jews are his chosen people and Zeus had many children.
You should just be more open minded and take the world from all points not just few. I am not a creationist and according to the bible the earth is about 12,000 yrs old. And yes thanks for the 1000 ch limit haha.
Debate Round No. 3
roark555

Pro

Forgive me for misquoting Richard Dawkins, I think we should be open minded, but not so open that our brain falls out. The fact that I am open minded is why I hold the positions that I do. But the default position of being open minded isn't Christianity. You say you have a "relationship" with God. But if it is true that he is beyond our ability to understand then how can you have a "relationship" with him? Again, who are YOU as an insignificant human to claim to understand even a little bit about what hes about, much less what he wants?
So you've read the Bible and you believe it because the bible said the bible is true? And from that you deduce that Zeus can't be real? *clap clap clap* good job sir. You ever read Lord of the Rings? It's a great series. I'm also a fan of Stephen King novels. Animal farm is a good book as well. You know what those books have in common with the Bible? They aren't real. Even though if you just took it at face value you'd think they were. You'd be wrong.
CountCheechula

Con

God can hear me talk, and He hears you talk and He sees all of our actions. When we die we will face a some sort of judgement based upon our lives. Probably an entire look through from birth to death. He and you will see every little thing and hear every little thought. You say how can I know anything, how can you then? I have some questions for you sir.
Who made up the sermon on the mount? and they must of been a great writer.
Show me anther history record or any other document recording the history of the Israelites that contradicts the Old Testament.
Why do the Gospels match up and every one has a slight different account but the same basic principles.
Why would Jesus put himself to die a horrible death and 11 of the 12 original disciples die martyrs deaths besides John and Judas?
And if you look at the books written by Paul, they support peace and love and forgiveness, why would you hate on something like that they are not supporting killing like the writings of Mohammad?
Debate Round No. 4
roark555

Pro

You have no basis for the claims in the first paragraph. Claiming that we can't understand is a claim unto itself about God. It' akin to emailing me a message saying messages never get delivered with computers.
Answers to the questions:
1. The shining is well written too. Musta been magic.
2. The fact that Adam and eve didn't happen. The fact that there was no worldwide flood, etc. Not historic, science.
3.Same author perhaps? Or same group of people. Or plagiarism.
4. Because they are stories. And lots of people died in horrible ways back then. Doesn't make all the supernatural claims true.
5. Because regardless of how good paul was, it doesn't mean that the bible is true. And all that forgiveness like god supposedly showed sodom and gomorah?
In summary: That which cannot exist does not exist( IE square circles, triangular-rectangles,omnipotent omnipresent omniscient sky daddies)
You have no evidence to back up any of your claims that you made.
Apple pie is delicious.
Thank you.
CountCheechula

Con

Thanks for the debate!
You really didn't answer my questions like I was expecting. :(
You can make the same claim about Socrates or Buddha not being real because you can just say someone else wrote their words or just the entire story is a hoax. All Jesus tried to do was get everyone to be nicer and give up silly possessions and give to the less fortunate. He was the son of god because he never was disapproved by our father. Which you and me have already been shunned hundreds of times. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. The perfect lamb to be slaughter for all of petty self works. And everyone can enter the new earth. No matter your past or the color of your skin all you have to do is accept your a horrible person and just try to better because trying is all we humans can do.
I hate Apple Pie.
Thank you sir.
Debate Round No. 5
29 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by elixir 2 years ago
elixir
"I think we should be open minded, but not so open that our brain falls out."

lmao buuurn
Posted by SocialistAtheistNutjob 2 years ago
SocialistAtheistNutjob
@Wiley More universes do not equate to more than one reality. If you could list the other dimensions for me that would be fantastic.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
WileyC1949
Socialist: I do not have to prove it..... science claims it. What do you think they are talking about when they speak about more dimensions than our four, or other universes?
Posted by roark555 2 years ago
roark555
@FuzzyCatPotato Arrogant? You are perceptive sir.
Posted by SocialistAtheistNutjob 2 years ago
SocialistAtheistNutjob
@wiley definition of reality: The state or quality of having existence or substance. Prove to me that there are realities past the physical reality that we're in, and you'll win me over.
Posted by roark555 2 years ago
roark555
@CountCheechula Are you going to finish the debate or what?
Posted by CountCheechula 2 years ago
CountCheechula
I love the ant to human philosophies comparison!
See if The Bible was written to a point that was zero dispute that it was true. Then everyone would believe that is the first step as Christian is taking a leap of faith.
Walk by faith not by sight - Jesus Christ
You must have hope or you are a hopeless person. You must be willing to accept, Jesus was for everything good and never sinned (did something that displeased God). How can you hate on a man that was for accepting all even non-believers like you. But remember Jesus did say:
If you are not for me, you are against me.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
WileyC1949
roark: Wow. It is pretty easy to say you do not believe in God when you define "God" in a way which virtually no one believers. I know of NO ONE who believes that God is in any way corporal. You are expressing that the ONLY reality is the physical. If that is the case then you are completely missing the point when someone speaks of "God". I don't believe in YOUR concept of God either.
Posted by roark555 2 years ago
roark555
@jladams just to be clear I never thought anybody was on your "list" haha. And it's certainly true to an extent that a large portion of our morality comes naturally and there are evolutionary reasons for that.Its not conscience therefore god.
Posted by jladams 2 years ago
jladams
@roark555 I find morality absolutely relevant as to whether God exists or not. If God does exist, then there is right and wrong! Man has a conscience that he's been implicitly born with to know these things. That's why there's no one on your list (and why I'd venture to say you would punish someone for doing), because inside, you know that it's wrong to do so. And a conscience didn't come from survival of the fittest, it came from God, who is our Father. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), science can't explain that.

I had hoped you were interested more in an intelligent discussion rather than trying to twist my words. I tried to used an extreme example, of something OBVIOUSLY wrong, to show that without any morals, a case could be made to justify anything. I'm sorry you didn't grasp it but that was the intent.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Mister_Man 2 years ago
Mister_Man
roark555CountCheechulaTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con failed to prove anything, he used the Bible as "evidence" for the Bible.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
roark555CountCheechulaTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was arrogant. Pro showed omnipotence-omniscience paradox.
Vote Placed by SocialistAtheistNutjob 2 years ago
SocialistAtheistNutjob
roark555CountCheechulaTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Sources: Con never used any sources Arguments: Con did not refute a single claim, and made no real attempt to prove the existence of god. Grammar: Con made many 5th grade grammatical mistakes, and used the wrong form of "you're".