The Instigator
Necro1414
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
bluesteel
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

God doesn't control every aspect of our lives. (He gives us free will)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
bluesteel
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/9/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,012 times Debate No: 54332
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

Necro1414

Pro

Even though God could control every aspect of our lives He lets us make our own choices, therefore he doesn't control everything. "The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was "exercising self-control" toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely."Psalm 37:10, 11. ; God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches.

God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to "choose life . . . by listening to [God"s] voice," that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: "O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.""Isaiah 48:18.
Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. "All that your hand finds to do," says the Bible, "do with your very power."(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: "The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.""Proverbs 21:5.
Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our "whole heart""because we want to."Matthew 22:37.
bluesteel

Con

The resolved is: God gives us free will.

There are two ways to disprove this: (1) infallible foreknowledge disproves free will, and (2) God gives us nothing because he does not exist.

== (1) Theological Fatalism ==

"The steps of a man are established by the Lord." -Psalm 37:23

(1) God is said to be omniscient, which means at any point in time, he has *infallible* foreknowledge about all future events.

(2) The only way for God"s foreknowledge to be infallible is if the events that He knows will occur must *necessarily* occur.

(3) An event that must necessarily occur *has* to occur; it cannot not occur.

(4) Humans have free will only if we have a choice in what action to take.

(5) All human actions are pre-determined because God knows about them beforehand [with infallible foreknowledge], and so all human actions must *necessarily* occur. When a human is given a "choice" between two possible futures, it is not really a choice because one future must *necessarily* occur, which means the other future is logically impossible [because it is logically *necessary* that it not occur]. So there never were two "possible" futures, only one. The one that God foresaw.

(6) If God exists, humans lack free will. When faced with a "choice," humans must always choose the option that God has foreseen, so there was no choice to begin with. Free will requires the ability to choose an option *other* than that which God has foreseen, but doing so would negate God"s omniscience. Either God does not exist or humans lack free will.

== (2) God does not exist ==

The Problem of Evil

(1) God is defined as a being who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

(2) An omnibenevolent being must take the most benevolent action possible, cannot help but to do so.

(3) If suffering exists, eliminating it is more benevolent than not eliminating it.

(4) God is all-knowing, so he knows about all suffering.

(5) God is all-powerful, so he has the power to cure all suffering.

(6) Suffering exists.

(7) An omnibenevolent, omnipotent being does not exist.

(8) God does not exist [from the definition of God].
Debate Round No. 1
Necro1414

Pro

Necro1414 forfeited this round.
bluesteel

Con

My opponent has conceded all of my points. If an argument is dropped, in the world of debate this means that you as a judge have to vote on it.

My opponent drops the argument that God does not exist because his properties are omnibenevolence, omniscience, and omnipotence, but these qualities cannot coexist if there is evil and suffering in the world. Therefore, the resolution is negated. To the extent humans have free will, it is not given by God.

In addition, my opponent drops the argument that if God has infallible foreknowledge of all human actions, there can be no free will. When given a choice between *Option A* and *Option B*, a human must always choose Option A as long as God has foreseen the human choosing Option A. Therefore, the human never had the power to choose Option B. In any given situation with divine foreknowledge, there is only really one option: the option God has foreseen. Therefore, there is no free will if an omniscient God exists.

In act, an omniscient God has already foreseen everyone who will go to Heaven and everyone who will go to Hell at the moment of that person's conception. *Nothing* that person does in his or her life matters. His or her sentence in the afterlife has been preordained.

My opponent's Bible quotes are disprove if God does not exist. For this conclusion it follows that the Bible is a work of imagination.

In addition, to the extent that free will is logically impossible with an omniscient God and the Bible also says God is omniscient, the Bible cannot be relied upon because it asserts two logically contradictory things: God knows every action humans will take, so humans *must* take those actions, yet humans have free will not to take those actions.

Lastly, my opponent drops my quote from Psalm, which is a Biblical source stating that God has preordained every step that a human will take. At best, the Bible quotes are a wash because my quote contradicts his.

Vote Con.

P.S. 10 mins in between rounds is short.
Debate Round No. 2
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Migrating_Hacker 3 years ago
Migrating_Hacker
Deuteronomy 29:29
Posted by n7 3 years ago
n7
I was thinking of accepting, but 10 minute rounds. No way.
Posted by numberwang 3 years ago
numberwang
How long is the response time? Id take this debate if it gives me a decent amount of time or If its a short time Ill wait until later. I havent debated before so I dont really know how it works.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
Necro1414bluesteelTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit, and arguments went unchallenged
Vote Placed by n7 3 years ago
n7
Necro1414bluesteelTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF. I hope Pro has learned 10 minute rounds are bad.
Vote Placed by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
Necro1414bluesteelTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: ff