The Instigator
fernandito_chiquito
Pro (for)
The Contender
omerfarooq86
Con (against)

God doesnt exist

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Debate Round Forfeited
fernandito_chiquito has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/7/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 504 times Debate No: 95931
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

fernandito_chiquito

Pro

I am an atheist because as I am an enrolled college student currently, I have had many personal experiences and taken many science, math, and philosophy classes that have made me discover much by challenging myself to many tasks, working/studying very hard, and literally sitting there thinking for hours about hundreds of topics that when i was able to answer, I came to the opinion that there is no god in the universe.

I hope my opponent has some good reasoning and that he or she can make a good claim. This first round will only be to state a thesis on later arguments for this debate, so the debate will technically begin at the 2nd round.

Do you accept these terms and choose to challenge
me in this debate?
omerfarooq86

Con

Hi, my name is Omer. Iam a Muslim and the name of my faith is Islam which means Peace.
First of all, i would like to Fernandito that do not take me as an opponent rather take me as a friend or a Older brother for iam much older than you or take me as a fellow Human being, just like you, who has the same eyes, nose, ears, a brain, who studies at a university pursing a masters degree in Supply Chain Management, with the same daily problems of life.
In my opinion there would be no winner or looser in this debate, for ill be trying to convince you about an Al-Mighty being whom i have never also seen but read about Him in a book revealed to a person who claims to be the prophet of God and from that book, God speaks to man about his existence.
Before you read further, i only want two things from you Fernandito, i want you to read everything i supply you with an open heart (without any bias or prejudice) and the second thing i want from you is that in the second round you have to explain to me your background and what chain of events happened in your life which lead you to the conclusion that God doesn't exists?
My brother you have made my task a little easier by claiming that, "There is no God!" for that is the first part of Islam, all i have to do now is to convince you that there is no God except Allah ( the Arabic name of God), for had you been a polytheist ( the person who believes in many Gods), my job would have been tough to convince you that the deities you are worshiping are all false, for there is only one God.
Here's what ill do. I'll first give you a brief introduction of Monotheism ( believing in only a single God) and all the prophets of God and then ill introduce you towards Quran, the final revelation of God and then i'll only quote from that book, for in that book there is science, maths, philosophy, history, geography and many other subjects which God talks about. For i will give you evidence from that book only. So in short my job would be to quote from that book and then it will be Quran's job to convince you that there is God, there are angels, there is a day known as the Day of Resurrection on which humans will be judged by God for what they did in this life and will be rewarded or punished according to their own actions. SO HERE WE GO:
In beginning there was no universe, no man, no angels, only God was there. God, there is no God except Him ( god is neither male or female but we refer God in our language as in masculine form but he does have a gender), neither does he has a wife or son, neither was he born, He is the all powerful. Whatever He wills, He just says "BE" and the will comes into existence. He decided to create a universe, heaven and hell and the earth and all he said was, "BE" and the big Bang occurred and the physical universe came into existence, he created the angels from light, who did not had free will, whatever they were told to do by God they abide by it, they do not have a choice to disobey God. Then God made another species known as Jins made of fire and gave them authority over earth. Lucifer a Jin, he was very devout to God, such was his devotion that he was allowed to be in the congregation of Angels. As Jins also have free-will, years passed and they started blood-shed on this earth by killing each other, God banished Jins from the earth for their disobedience to God and decided to create a new species, Humans and decided to give humans the authority over earth. God made the first Human Adam with water and mud and shaped him into a human and then blow His own breath into him, giving him life. The angels questioned and quarreled with God that why are you making another creation which will shed blood on the earth and spread corruption in the land and give authority to them whereas we Praise and worship you? God answered, " You do not know what i know." And then he taught Adam knowledge of everything and called the angels and asked them do you know this and the angels replied we only know what you have taught us and then God asked Adam to inform them and Adam informed them for he had been given knowledge. All angels said to God, verily you know everything and we were wrong to question you about Humans.
Adam, the first human and the first prophet of God felt lonely in heaven so he asked God to make him a friend and a companion and so God made Eve as his companion and told them to eat and drink from this heaven but do not go near this tree and eat its fruit for it will harm you and take your innocence away for it was the tree of Shame. God announced to the congregation of Angels to Bow or prostrate before Adam, All the angels prostrated except Lucifer for he was a Jin present at that time in the congregation. God asked Lucifer, " Why didn't you prostrate?", He replied, "Iam made of fire and he is made from Mud!" God got angry and banished Lucifer for his pride and not obeying God's commands and rather than asking for mercy and repenting his sin Lucifer asked God to give him life until the day of judgement and challenged God to lead Humans astray from God's path. God accepted his challenge.
Then Lucifer deceived Adam and Eve and tricked both of them into eating the forbidden fruit of shame from the tree and once they both ate the fruit, shame overtook them and they started to cover themselves with leaves of tree and when God asked Adam why is he hiding, Adam told God he felt ashamed for he is naked. God replied did i not told you to not to eat from that tree, why Adam, why did you eat it? Adam replied to God that Lucifer tricked us into eating it and that he is sorry for what he had done. God had mercy over Adam because he asked God's forgiveness. So God told Adam, iam sending you down on earth, over there you will live a while and then die and come to me again. You will worship me alone and follow everything I have taught you and do good deeds. Whoever among you and your children will worship and follow me and do good will i reward them with Heaven and whoever will follow Lucifer and his minions and do evil will i punish with Hell.
So Adam and Eve were sent to earth and they had many children and the human race on earth started.The human race started as a single tribe. Adam had two sons named Cain and Abel. Cain committed the first murder on earth by killing his own brother for marrying a women whom both wanted to marry. Thus first blood of a human was spilled. Humans multiplied in great numbers and Adam and Even died. Humans forgot all about God, so He decided to select people from humans to deliver His messages to Human race on earth. These people chosen by God to deliver His messages are known as Prophets and some of these Prophets received revelations and they are known as Messengers. Only 4 Books have survived in history, The Torah revealed to Moses the messenger of God and prince of Egypt, The Psalms revealed to David the messenger of God and King of Israel, The Bible revealed to Jesus son of Mary, the Messiah and The Quran revealed to Muhammad, the last Messenger and Prophet of God.
A total of 240,000 prophets of God came on this earth, spreading His message of peace, love and worship of one God.
Prophet Noah came to his people informing of an imminent flood and wrath of God and those who followed him will be saved and those who did not and persisted in doing evil will be killed. That's what happened. Prophet Lot came to Sodom and Gomorrah where people were homo-sexual, he warned them of an impending doom if they did not stop their actions and repented to God, and those people refused to listen and God's wrath over took them.
https://www.youtube.com...
So now i'll skip all the messengers and come to the last one, Muhammad, born in mecca in the year 570 AD. He received the first revelation at the age of 40 in a cave just outside mecca where he was thinking about the world and its cruelty and searching for the vary meaning of life, thus Islam began from there.....
Debate Round No. 1
fernandito_chiquito

Pro

As a young child, I was raised from a very poor Latino family in the US, but my parents were active Catholics and despite our economic problems they contributed much by constantly donating to poor people and praying a lot. I remember multiple times going out with my mother as she would take pots of food to homeless people and at the time I was very unaware of much that was happening and I didn't realize that all of this was being done in the name of God. As I grew older, I managed to get very good grades in school and also participate in sports, which was difficult for many to achieve. Through all the hours I spent studying and doing homework, I was able to gain much knowledge and I remember my mother saying that God was helping me through my daily course of life and that he was the reason for all my successes. I kept it to myself, but to me it sounds very absurd of an external magical force that determines the outcomes of our daily actions and knows everything. I came to the idea that all the work you do in your life determines how far you get, and that you wont get certain results by just praying for them, or believing that God will be able to assist you in your emotional problems, but by working hard and not giving up because in the end that is what will determine what kind of person you are, not Gods "plan" for you.

What really bothered me is how they say that God loves everyone equally, but there cannot be equality between people in this world as one cannot exist without the other. There can't be such a thing as someone rich without there being someone poorer, and there cannot be enjoyment without suffering in this world. Everything comes at the expense of something in this world and in modern times its at the expense of someone, as desperate fathers work in caves to mine metals that will become a phone case for a 13 year old in the US, or as a woman becomes a prostitute and allows perverts to touch her so that she may provide food, shelter, and clothes for her child.

There is much lack of evidence that God exists, such as the endless cosmos of the universe and many controversial topics such as "If God created the universe, then what created him?" or "How could the universe possibly create itself?" The major flaw in the name of the debate here is that this evidence can't really deny the existence of a God, but can't prove it either, and I apologize for this. Anyways, I will now do my best to prove to you my friend that there is no deity/deities in this universe, and I wish the best of luck to you.

1. Gods miracles aren't as "real" as many think they are

Many of Gods miracles occur to teach specific life lessons or to explain certain things about life. I recall how you mentioned that God created a man out of mud and then blew on him to give him life and from what I can understand from this is that the greatness of God is unlimited and that he is perfect, flawless, and all knowing. The flaw in this, is that dirt is composed of the following elements(link in the desc):
- calcium
-magnesium
-potassium
-sodium
-and relatively iron and aluminum
In contrast to this, the typical human body is composed of the following elements:
-carbon
-oxygen
-hydrogen
-nitrogen
-phosphorus
-calcium
-and .85% of potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium.
You said that God blew air (N, or O) onto the mud and that his great power was able to turn it into man. What really would have happened if there were a superior being there and had blown upon the mud, nothing much would have happened besides a few quadrillion chemical reactions of the oxygen causing some very minor changes that wouldn't really do much besides probably make some mud dry up. Another thing is that God couldn't have possibly accomplished the task of creating all the components of the human body, especially making him into a grown man. This violates the 7 biological characteristics of life, as the idea of reproduction was ignored here and in order to do such an action, major chemical reactions would have to occur that would violate many laws of physics.

In conclusion to my argument, I would like to say how the reason I don't believe in God is because of how I was able to achieve such greatness, which was my own doing and perseverance. I have known what its like to be very poor and homeless, but I also know what its like to have everything that someone would want, which is an experience I never want to have again. Through scientific reasoning and my own wisdom, I believe that God doesn't exist.
omerfarooq86

Con

Thank You Fernandito, for your kind response. Brother i read your post thrice so to make sure i did not leave out anything.
Iam truly glad and grateful to you for explaining to me, "How you came to the conclusion of there is no God"and believe me when i say this, most people come this conclusion for the same reasons you have. What i'll do is that first i'll answer your arguments and then i'll give you more scientific facts from the Quran.
Fernandito, my brother, you have to keep in mind that this Book which was revealed to Muhammad in bits by bits over the course of 23 years was revealed to him 1400 years ago, in a desert with no modern technology which we have today, Muhammad was himself an illiterate (uneducated) man, had he been an educated person, people would have rejected this book Quran just by saying that he was an educated man himself, he wrote it himself, now people can;t argue like that, it was God's intention he remained illiterate. Being born in a wealthy family, he could have gotten education if he wanted but he didn't.
Embryology is in the Quran with all the stages of Human development in the womb of the mother which was given to us 1400 years ago and science only a 100 years ago confirms it.
"Verily We created man from a drop of a mingled fluid-drop (Sperms), in order to try him: so We gave him (the gifts), of hearing and sight." (Chap76:Verse 2)
"He It is Who created all things in the best way and began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from an extract of despised fluid (Sperms) " (Chap32: Verse 7-8)
"So, let man consider of what he was created . He was created of gushing water " (Chap86: Verse 5-6)
"He has created man from a sperm (fluid-drop) and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer." (16: 4).
Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a fluid-drop of ejected semen? . (Chap 75:Verse 36-37)
"Woe to man! What has made him reject (Allah)? From what stuff has He created him? From a nutfa (sperms) He has created him, and then molds him in due proportions." (80: 17-19).
"That He created the pairs, male and female, from a fluid-drop sperm as it is emitted." (Chap53: Verse 45-46), confirming that man"s gender as male or female is determined when the sperm drop is emitted. Who told the Prophet Mohammed that the sperm (nutfa) with one of its types (Y) or (X) is responsible for determining the sex of the embryo? This was not discovered except after the invention of microscopes in the past century, when it was possible then to know that the embryo being a male or female is only determined by the sperm (nutfa), rather than the ovum. In other words, we were in the beginning of the 20th century and the whole of mankind were not aware that the sperm decrees if the embryo is male or female. While the Quran, which was revealed 14 centuries ago, has stated this fact in a very clear manner.
The uterus, as mentioned before, is considered as a place settled (Makeen) and safe for the growth and protection of the embryo, according to reasons mentioned earlier. We find that Quran mentions and affirms this fact 14 centuries ago, as He Almighty says:"The which (embryo) We placed in a place of settlement, firmly fixed for a period (of gestation), determined. For We do determine, for We are the best to determine (things). (77: 21-23).
For more information and whole process defined by the quran on the stages of embryo in a women's womb please read and follow the links below for if start to write everything down, it will take up all the word limit and i won't be able to give more reasons for God's existence.
http://www.islamicmedicine.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Fernandito, you say that, " What really bothered me is how they say that God loves everyone equally, but there cannot be equality between people in this world as one cannot exist without the other. There can't be such a thing as someone rich without there being someone poorer, and there cannot be enjoyment without suffering in this world. Everything comes at the expense of something in this world and in modern times its at the expense of someone, as desperate fathers work in caves to mine metals that will become a phone case for a 13 year old in the US, or as a woman becomes a prostitute and allows perverts to touch her so that she may provide food, shelter, and clothes for her child", my Brother, don't punish Allah for the actions of his creations, us, Humans. We are the ones responsible for this state of humanity today, you are right about everything comes in this world at the expense of someone but that is not Allah's fault, it our fault, while we are following capitalism which leads to rich becoming richer and poor becoming poorer to the extent of destitution, Allah gave us an economic system in the quran based on giving charity and sharing the resources which God has blessed us with.
Chap2. verse 177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.
Chap2. Verse 215
They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -Allah knoweth it well.
Chap 2:274
Those who give to charity night and day, secretly and publicly, receive their recompense from their Lord; they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
http://progressive-muslim.org...
So tell me something, if people had given charity and taken care of the women and her family's need would she had become a prostitute Fernandito? It's our fault that she became a prostitute not God's fault. God's given us the freedom of choice and total freedom to do anything we want.
Fernandito, the major problem with you believing that there is no god doesn't affect God in anyway but it surly does have a great impact on your own life. If you do not believe in God that means that there is no heaven or hell and no day of Judgement, that means in effect Fernandito, you are in reality saying you will not be held responsible for the actions you have done so far in your life and whatever you will do in your future. That means you can kill anyone or anything, rob banks, become rich by selling cocaine like Pablo Escobar, sleep with a lot women and for experience sleep with men, lie, cheat, steal, abuse and then you die and get away with everything you did, cause big brother ain't watching you and after you die you will cease to exist with your body becomes dust and bones. That's a problem saying those men, women and children who were massacred in conflicts around the globe, who didn't get justice on earth and were oppressed by other humans won't get Justice.
And says man: What! when I am dead shall I truly be brought forth alive? Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing? (Chap19: Verse 66-67)
Fernandito, the word limit is ending, otherwise i would have elaborated more on the day judgement, but everything you do is being recorded with God and on that Judgement Day you will answer every question God poses to you about your actions, varying from why were you arguing with your mother on so and so day or why did you do so and so on that day of your life.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omerfarooq86 1 month ago
omerfarooq86
iam very sorry to hear that....... may God bless his soul and send him to heaven and fulfill all the needs of his family in this time of crisis....
Posted by fernandito_chiquito 1 month ago
fernandito_chiquito
I am sorry for forfeiting the round. Its not that I felt the need to quit. I had to attend a family emergency so i was very inactive for a while. I apologize, and I will be absent for the next week because I must attend a funeral of a relative.
Posted by omerfarooq86 1 month ago
omerfarooq86
Could not post some links due to word limit:
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Posted by fernandito_chiquito 1 month ago
fernandito_chiquito
damn i forgot to post the link, but I have it right here

Soil chemical Properties: http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu...
Posted by steve086 1 month ago
steve086
This is a fairly straight forward argument for OP to lose. As per Descartes, we ultimately cannot prove that our observations are true, and not some sort of misdirection. The biases towards science these days are the same ones that Religion used to utilize.

But if you think "The Matrix", and Black Swans, etc. Science is just as "provable" as Religion, thus OP's premise is wrong. They just don't fully understand their biases.
Posted by omerfarooq86 2 months ago
omerfarooq86
Iacov
In Islam, the quran clearly states that Muslims are guardians of their state and it is a duty of a Muslim to protect all religious minorities residing in their state, if anyone tries to harm the religious minorities then God will punish those who harm them and Muslim authorities will be held responsible on the day of Judgment. The Quran has rebuked those who are Homosexuals but has not given any law that says to Punish them. My opinion, they need mental health and should be treated.
Now Saudi Arabia is kingdom and if it executes Homosexuals then it is their own law not the law of Quran or Islam. Any State with Muslims in power and they are executing religious minorities, believe me, Hell will be their eternal Home...... There is no compulsion in religion, you can be an atheist, a polytheist etc and have full rights as Muslim would have, but in reality there are no Muslim states in their true essence, as they have their own laws different from the quran.....
Posted by Iacov 2 months ago
Iacov
24hj to whom are you referring and why?
Posted by 24hj 2 months ago
24hj
r u dum
Posted by Iacov 2 months ago
Iacov
Ok so you do not count terrorist as muslims but what about the governments of Muslim countries such as Saudia Arabia or Syria that regularly executes citizens for haven't different beliefs or ideas such as the fact that there are regular public exicutions of homosexuals in the name of Islam.
Posted by omerfarooq86 2 months ago
omerfarooq86
Iacov
The Quran as i have stated below clearly states that killing one person is as though you have killed the whole of mankind..... Such a great sin to kill a human being unjustly.... Whats more worse is that these so called champions of Islam kill more Muslims than any other people, they blow up in markets killing women and children indiscriminately..... These people are dogs of Hell and God will punish them for their atrocities on earth for eternity in Hell...... Their killings are not justified at all and the quran speaks against them......
Iam speaking about all these CIA, Mossad funded groups, the Bogyman for the innocent western citizens, namely Al-Qaeeda, Taliban, ISIS and AL- Shabab...... All of these groups and all those who are part of these groups and mark my words, they are going straight to hell fire for their sins of killing innocents....... They are DOGS OF HELL FIRE!!!!
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