The Instigator
Hypocriticism
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
JoJoju1998
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

God either created itself or is not necessary for the existence of things other than itself.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 372 times Debate No: 64943
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Hypocriticism

Pro

If you assert that God is necessary since all that exists requires a creator then either God created itself or you do not need God for reality.

Minimum requirement: 7 debates.


Round 1: Con's opening arguments/rebuttal


Round 2: Pro's defense against the rebuttals and attack on Con's case. Con's second wave of rebuttal and defense against Pro's attack.


Round 3: No new rebuttals or arguments allowed for either side. This is for closing statements only.

JoJoju1998

Con

This question is logically problematic. If everything needs a creator, than no matter what exists, it must have been created. Furthermore, to be created means that someone or something had to create it. But then, who created the creator and so on? Logically, this would mean there would be an infinite regression of creators (prior causes), and we would never be able to find the first uncaused cause since by definition (the question says that "everything needs a creator") there wouldn't be any uncaused cause. This would mean that the sequence of creations is eternal. But, if it exists that there is an eternal regression of creators, then who created the infinite regression of creators? Remember, the question presupposes that all things need a creator--even the eternal sequence of creators--which becomes logically absurd. Furthermore, if there is an eternal regression of creators that are eternal, then the question is not answered. In fact, it cannot be answered since its weakness is that "all things need a creator." Of course, this only begs the question in that how did the process begin? Therefore, the question only raises the same problem it asks, and it is a question that, by its own design, cannot be answered. Therefore, it is invalid.

The question is better phrased as a statement: "Everything that has come into existence was brought into existence by something else." This is a more logical statement and is not wrought with the difficulties of the initial question. In the revised statement, "Everything that has come into existence" implies that the thing that "has come into existence" did not already exist. If it did not already exist but then came into existence, then something had to bring it into existence because something that does not exist cannot bring itself into existence (a logical absolute). This pushes the regression of creators back to what we would call the theoretical "uncaused cause" since there cannot be an infinite regression of creators as discussed above and since an infinite number of creators would mean there was an infinite number of creations and created things, including things that cannot be destroyed since they would constitute things that exist. If that is so, then the universe would have had an infinite number of created things in it; and it would be full. But it is not full. Therefore, there has not been an infinite regression of creations.

Some may ask, "But who created God?" The answer is that by definition He is not created; He is eternal. He is the One who brought time, space, and matter into existence. Since the concept of causality deals with space, time, and matter and since God is the one who brought space, time, and matter into existence, the concept of causality does not apply to God since it is something related to the reality of space, time, and matter. Since God is before space, time, and matter, the issue of causality does not apply to Him.
Debate Round No. 1
Hypocriticism

Pro

Hypocriticism forfeited this round.
JoJoju1998

Con

JoJoju1998 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Hypocriticism

Pro

Hypocriticism forfeited this round.
JoJoju1998

Con

Well Sorry for not posting my arguments cause my opponent did not seem to either. Anyway vote !
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by sabrin100 2 years ago
sabrin100
Yes , God is eternal. He is the one who creates and destroys . The question of creation does not arise about him .
Posted by JoJoju1998 2 years ago
JoJoju1998
I do not understand the question. Can you clarify it more ?
Posted by Hypocriticism 2 years ago
Hypocriticism
If something can exist without beginning then reality can do so and no god is required.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
You missed the part of the argument that says "all things THAT BEGIN TO EXIST, have a cause.". If God always existed, the He never began to exist. That negates your resolution.
Posted by sabrin100 2 years ago
sabrin100
I would have taken up this debate , if I had the time . First one needs to define God which is I assume based on religion .
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