The Instigator
delgadojustin2146
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
dawndawndawndawn
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

God exists and we are without excuse for denying him

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
dawndawndawndawn
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/21/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 619 times Debate No: 42724
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

delgadojustin2146

Pro

The Christian God is the one and true God. Hopefully this debate will show how nobody can say anything to try and disprove God and will lead the unbeliever into repentance.
dawndawndawndawn

Con

I am a, 100%, non-believer.

Please list the other gods who are not true gods
Debate Round No. 1
delgadojustin2146

Pro

All of them. There is no other religion/worldview that can give an account for truth. They all have inconsistencies. Christianity is the only religion that can account for epistemology (how we know anything), ethics (right and wrong), and metaphysics (creation).
dawndawndawndawn

Con

Please list ten of them and say what is wrong with each of them
Debate Round No. 2
delgadojustin2146

Pro

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools.

I don't think it would be very effective to list ten right now but what I can tell you is this. Just by you accepting my debate and expecting to think logically, debate rationally, and convey meaning through words you would have to assume God's existence since you cannot account for logic, meaning, uniformity, and rationality without him. Instead of me listing ten false religions it would be a shorter list for you to try and account for those things outside of God. It is impossible to prove autonomy. Even your thoughts are dependant on God. To try and account for those things without God you would have to implore your reasoning but you wouldn't be able to prove that your reasoning is valid because the only thing you would be able to use is your reasoning and that would be viciously circular and wouldn't make sense. I'm not here to disprove every other religion, I'm here to say that unless you start with God you cannot make even one knowledgeable claim. You can't know anything for sure without God.
dawndawndawndawn

Con

If you are going to quote something, use quotation marks and state the name of the person you are quoting
or you will be plagiarizing?

Do you know the definition of "plagiarize"?

Debate involves making logical points that stand up to arguments.

If you expect non-believers to just "feel" your ideas, you are, sadly, childish
Debate Round No. 3
delgadojustin2146

Pro

I quoted the Bible. I don't think that is considered plagiarism. And I did make logical points. I'm telling you that outside of God you can't account for anything. I'm not going to waste my time disproving other religions because to do that i'd be using logic and rational thinking and even those are dependant on God. You cannot know truth in any area without starting with God first.
dawndawndawndawn

Con

Do you know the use and meaning of quotation marks?

Explain, please,
1. gravity, starting with god
2. virus adaptation and why we cannot sure the "common cold", starting with god
3. logic, starting with god
4. plumbing, starting with god
5. dandelion-procreation, starting with god
6. animal-mutilation, starting with god

It should be very simple for you to turn non-believers into believers with a list of this size.
Debate Round No. 4
delgadojustin2146

Pro

I'm not going through that list. I don't even fully understand what you're asking of me. I'll make it short and to the point. To know anything for certain you would have to judge it by and absolute standard of truth. If you didn't then everything would be an opinion and nothing would be true including that and you would be in an infinite regression. You presuppose that your senses, memory, and reasoning are valid and i would ask you how you know that. Since you are an unbeliever you would judge those things using your own subjectivity which would be viciously circular.

Evolution cannot account for gravity because it presupposes uniformity which doesn't make sense in evolution. The best you could say is that everyday to date gravity has remained, therefore it will remain tomorrow. But you would have no basis for knowing that for sure. It would be inductive reasoning and it would assume the future will be like the past which is only an assumption.

Logic doesn't make sense in evolution since logic would only be a convention instead of an absolute standard. You would have no basis for logic or reason to trust in laws of logic.

The other things i don't really understand what you mean. If you don't have an absolute standard of truth then you would not be able to know anything absolutely for sure. Pretty much you either appeal to God as your standard of truth or you appeal to yourself and the latter is impossible to prove.
dawndawndawndawn

Con

You stated that "i" cannot know anything, for sure, without god.
This would imply that we do know things, for sure, with god.

So, state the things that I listed, or some other things that are sure
and start with god.
Based on your ideas, this should be an easy task for you
and then, you would convert non-believers and win.

"Since you are an unbeliever you would judge those things using your own subjectivity which would be viciously circular."
The Earth is round. This statement is not subjective. It is objective.

"Evolution cannot account for gravity because it presupposes uniformity which doesn't make sense in evolution. "
Evolution and gravity have nothing to do with each other. Life-forms may be evolving, right now, in zero-gravity.

"You would have no basis for logic or reason to trust in laws of logic."
Who made the laws of logic, why and how, please?

"The other things i don't really understand what you mean."
You stated that everything starts with god.
Start with god and explain those things, please.

" If you don't have an absolute standard of truth then you would not be able to know anything absolutely for sure. "
If you have an absolute standard for truth, these things should be quite easy for you to do.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
The behavior is childish, not the person.

If god created free will, why are is every thing that way god wants it to be?

The two things cancel each other out.
Posted by OtakuJordan 3 years ago
OtakuJordan
"If (the Christian) God exists, why are there other religions as well as atheism? Surely everyone would be Christian. Also, if God hates homosexuals, why did he create them? It's rather pointless."

That has to be one of the worst arguments against theism that I have ever heard. Perhaps you should invest a little time into studying Christian views of free will.

As to your point about homosexuals, 1) God doesn't hate them and 2) God also makes kleptomaniacs, but that doesn't mean stealing is permissible. Proving that someone is born with a certain desire does not automatically make that desire moral.

"A lack of a theistic claim is the default response, indoctrination and traditional spirituality promote theism in given societies. Given ample time the population of those who promote theistic belief will be reduced the more education is available, until then there will be debates like this."

Degree-holding sociologists would disagree.

"@Archangel_S And yet in the most educated country in the world, America, most people believe in God."

America is not the most educated country in the world...

"'childish' This stupid useless word enrages me. Age discrimination, all in a little word. The fact that Con has resulted to name calling, I believe he should not win this debate."

It means he should lose conduct points, not the entire debate.

This debate and the comments it spawned are some of the worst on this site.
Posted by delgadojustin2146 3 years ago
delgadojustin2146
There are other religions because of sin. People want to create idols in their image and use the wisdom of this world instead of God's wisdom to reach truth and it goes nowhere. No one wants to admit that they are completely dependant on God for everything so they choose to create worldly philosophies that lead to absurdity.
Posted by delgadojustin2146 3 years ago
delgadojustin2146
God hates sin completely. He created us with the freedom to rebel and we choose to go against him because of our fallen nature. Everyone deserves the wrath of God, even heterosexuals.
Posted by urapai 3 years ago
urapai
"childish" This stupid useless word enrages me. Age discrimination, all in a little word. The fact that Con has resulted to name calling, I believe he should not win this debate.
Posted by Installgentoo 3 years ago
Installgentoo
@Archangel_S And yet in the most educated country in the world, America, most people believe in God.
Posted by Archangel_S 3 years ago
Archangel_S
A lack of a theistic claim is the default response, indoctrination and traditional spirituality promote theism in given societies. Given ample time the population of those who promote theistic belief will be reduced the more education is available, until then there will be debates like this.
Posted by profBrown 3 years ago
profBrown
If (the Christian) God exists, why are there other religions as well as atheism? Surely everyone would be Christian. Also, if God hates homosexuals, why did he create them? It's rather pointless.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
delgadojustin2146dawndawndawndawnTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argued that since God's existence is necessary for there to be logic, uniformity, reason, etc., that every argument Con could possibly raise against the existence of God would have to assume his existence, so any argument against God's existence is self-refuting. Con didn't seem to understand the argument, much less did Con make any effort to refute it. Also conduct to Pro since Con accused him of being childish.
Vote Placed by Anon_Y_Mous 3 years ago
Anon_Y_Mous
delgadojustin2146dawndawndawndawnTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro dropped the vast majority of Con's arguments, because he's not going to waste his time disproving other religions because to do that he'd be using logic and rational thinking.
Vote Placed by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
delgadojustin2146dawndawndawndawnTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Its one level of stupid to claim hat God exists and then only cite the Bible as evidence... Its an entirely NEW level of stupid though to claim that there is no excuse to deny God's existence, and STILL only quote the Bible. Arguments to the con easy although he almost screwed up the debate