The Instigator
Debate_King1475
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Apple7
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

God exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 430 times Debate No: 63082
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

Debate_King1475

Con

Good luck. I would like to hear your opinion on why you believe in a God and I will defend why I do not.
Apple7

Pro

Alright, I will be your Pro for this debate.

My opinion for believing in a God is through reasoning, not by faith alone. First, I believe that this universe is not only constituted by stuffs and materials, but also the immaterial things that we could not see. For example, what if I ask you what is love made of? I do not see love as a material, but I could feel it. In addition, I also believe that I am not purely synapsis and that there is something immaterial and internal about me which I do not know (such as a soul). Another example would be if I were going to hit you, you would feel hurt (externally, which is your body is hurt) but if I said something that offended, you would feel hurt (internally, which is your body is not hurt but your something is hurt). Why was the hurt (internally) even there and why does it seems so "real"? It doesn't cause you any bodily harm but why do you feel "hurt" inside of you?

Second, I don't know how the big bang theory works (the mathematical proofs) but the explanation of it, that a "bang" can create everything as we know it, does seem miraculous to me since it doesn't require a creator or an "outside force" for the process to begin in the first place and that something can come out of nothing.

Finally third, it is interesting to me that human, unlike any other species can recognize the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, benign and evil. What are the right things to do and what are the wrong things to do? And how do you know?

All of the three points lead me to believe that there is an intelligent designer behind this universe and that without him or her or it, we wouldn't be here at all.
Debate Round No. 1
Debate_King1475

Con

"First, I believe that this universe is not only constituted by stuffs and materials, but also the immaterial things that we could not see." You are absolutely correct on that. Logic does not physically exist but it does exist. It is a concept. The number one not the adjective just the number one is a concept. Love is a concept that we use when we experience extreme emotion. I do not see how this proves God at all. You were just making an observation.

Second, you say that the big bang SEEMS miraculous to you because you do not understand it. You are doing god of the gaps. If you cannot explain why something is the way it is, then you assume that it is god. You use god to explain your uncertainties, which does not verify that god actually did it but you are making a guess.

Third, you say that we cannot know the difference between right and wrong and we cannot know the difference between good and evil. YES WE CAN!!! The way we determine what is good and evil or right and wrong is based on the way we feel subjectively about the issue. That is what our own personal morality consists of. If morality can from god, then why don't we all have the same morals? By saying that it comes from God you are saying that I don't know where it came from so it must be god. You are using god of the gaps.

I have a few questions for you now. Why would god not want to reveal himself to us? By not revealing himself to us, he is allowing there to be doubt and different views on what god is. You might say that if god reveals himself then we will be forced to act perfectly because he is always watching. But if you believe for a fact that god is always watching, then why do you make mistakes?

Also, if the universe had to have a cause, which you believe is god, then who created god? Why would you make an exception for your own case and not mine? Also, quantum mechanics verifies that the universe could have spontaneously created itself. It gives no explanation on how god could have been created.

Also, if god is supernatural then there would need to be supernatural evidence of him existing. Jesus is not supernatural evidence because you have no proof that he existed. If you say that the Bible verifies it, then I say that what is your proof that the Bible is no made up but was actually written by God.

Also, if god is supernatural and not bound by time then he would be spontaneously living in all time frames throughout history. If this is true, then god would have created everything at the same time throughout history. So, he would have created us knowing that we would fail him. If you say that free will is the reason that we betrayed him, then I would say that free will does not exist because our decisions are made by our brain. If we claim that god created us, then god created our decision making organ, the brain, in a way that would result in us betraying him. If you claim that the soul is what lets us do our decision making, then the same logic would apply from the brain.

Also, why would a God create such a big universe and only care about earth?

Also, why would a God have any desire to create us? It is not because of love because if god created us out of love then why would he allow us to fail him and cause all of our suffering in the world. Our actions are a result of what this god has created and if we betray him then god made us to betray him.
Apple7

Pro

"First, I believe that this universe is not only constituted by stuffs and materials, but also the immaterial things that we could not see." You are absolutely correct on that. Logic does not physically exist but it does exist. It is a concept. The number one not the adjective just the number one is a concept. Love is a concept that we use when we experience extreme emotion. I do not see how this proves God at all. You were just making an observation."

-The fact that this universe is not only constituted by stuffs and materials allow god existence to be true and things that we cannot see and understand to take part in our daily lives. For example do you see and understand love? What is love? You could definitely feel it but to comprehend what you're feeling, you might need something much more (a god) to comprehend the intangible and also to invent it. I mean why do you feel love the way you feel it? You feel love because why? Why are you even feel it in the first place. Why was it even there? Don't explain to me what love is, tell me what it is.

"Second, you say that the big bang SEEMS miraculous to you because you do not understand it. You are doing god of the gaps. If you cannot explain why something is the way it is, then you assume that it is god. You use god to explain your uncertainties, which does not verify that god actually did it but you are making a guess"

-So let say if I understand how the big bang works and how it came to be, then I'm technically a god because I understand how this entire universe works since I created it. Let's put God out of the universe. Love is not tangible, it is a concept but still, I could feel it and it seems real to me. Why was it even there to begin with? So the big bang created love as well? If god wasn't there to programmed us the way we are then what?

"Third, you say that we cannot know the difference between right and wrong and we cannot know the difference between good and evil. YES WE CAN!!! The way we determine what is good and evil or right and wrong is based on the way we feel subjectively about the issue. That is what our own personal morality consists of. If morality can from god, then why don't we all have the same morals? By saying that it comes from God you are saying that I don't know where it came from so it must be god. You are using god of the gaps."

-Slow down and read my point again. The questions are intended to clarify my point.

"The way you determine what is good and evil or right and wrong is based on the way you feel subjectively about the issue."

-Why was our perception of right and wrong there in the first place for us to even think about it? And then you ask if morality came from god, why don't we have the same morals? It is like you (a human) trying to create a machine that has the same characteristics and abilities as a human (you can't).

"I have a few questions for you now. Why would god not want to reveal himself to us? By not revealing himself to us, he is allowing there to be doubt and different views on what god is. You might say that if god reveals himself then we will be forced to act perfectly because he is always watching. But if you believe for a fact that god is always watching, then why do you make mistakes?"

-Ask yourself why not? If god was there, the free will that he or she or it has promised is gone. What I mean is, let just say if you are a kid just like me, and your parents are there, how would you behave when they're there and when they're not? Just the same as God, if God is real and show himself to the world and declare his authorities, where's free will? Okay, God watches us, so what????? We made mistakes because God let us do what we want and the consequence that came with it. It is free will my friend. You can do whatever you think is right for you but there will be consequences for the action you choose.

"Also, if the universe had to have a cause, which you believe is god, then who created god? Why would you make an exception for your own case and not mine? Also, quantum mechanics verifies that the universe could have spontaneously created itself. It gives no explanation on how god could have been created."

-If you know who creates god, then you are a god (I mean you are the god of gods). The existence of God is mysterious in a way that we cannot comprehend. Just like love, you can explain what love is but you can't tell me what love itself is because you do not comprehend. Quantum mechanics verifies that the universe COULD have spontaneously created itself. It gives no explanation on how god could have been created because we cannot use scientific experiment to prove the existence of a god. I would be amaze if any of the scientists could show me God in their laboratories.

"Also, if god is supernatural then there would need to be supernatural evidence of him existing. Jesus is not supernatural evidence because you have no proof that he existed. If you say that the Bible verifies it, then I say that what is your proof that the Bible is no made up but was actually written by God."

-The bible itself is God's words, but it was actually NOT written by God himself or herself or itself. The supernatural evidence of God is supernatural is look at the universe itself and tell me who or what has done this.

"Also, if god is supernatural and not bound by time then he would be spontaneously living in all time frames throughout history. If this is true, then god would have created everything at the same time throughout history. So, he would have created us knowing that we would fail him. If you say that free will is the reason that we betrayed him, then I would say that free will does not exist because our decisions are made by our brain. If we claim that god created us, then god created our decision making organ, the brain, in a way that would result in us betraying him. If you claim that the soul is what lets us do our decision making, then the same logic would apply from the brain."

-I would argue that free will does exist because it is our decisions that lead us to our doom. You're right by the fact that God has premeditated the event but that's the event in the bible, and God was actually there (in the bible) to take control of the event. What about in today world? Let just say you want to pick up a glass of water, does god really there to tell you otherwise? If you want to kill someone, does god really there to tell you: "hey don't do it, it's bad." NO. The concept of free will still exist since the intervention of God wasn't there to prevent us from what we're doing so that explains why we made mistakes even though God is "watching" us because simply God is not there to tell you what you should do (God DIDN'T tell us what we MUST do, even if God did, it is still our free will that lead us to make our own decisions).

"Also, why would a God create such a big universe and only care about earth?"

- Aye, you're talking about god will and god can do whatever god wants. In my opinion I think he want us to know we're special, that we are one in a trillion planets (I don't know how many).

"Also, why would a God have any desire to create us? It is not because of love because if god created us out of love then why would he allow us to fail him and cause all of our suffering in the world. Our actions are a result of what this god has created and if we betray him then god made us to betray him"

-Once again, free will exists. We choose to fail him and the causes to all of our suffering came from our decision. He probably wants us to experience suffering so we can feel that pain and redeem ourselves to become better. He let evil in our lives so we, from that evil, can become good. God didn't make us to betray him, our lust for power and equality to god leads to our fall from grace in the Garden of Eden. From that fall from grace we can become good again, we can redeem for what we did wrong so we can return from where we've begin (heaven).
Debate Round No. 2
Debate_King1475

Con

1. You are saying why I feel love? I feel love because chemicals in the brain are released and allow us to feel a pleasureful sensation. Love is there because the chemical in our brain that create this feeling exist. Why do I exist? Evolution from single celled organisms. Why? Why? Why? You are doing this thing where you ask why to everything and if you do not have and answer, then you fill your uncertainties with God. God is a guess not a fact and humans have discovered how unlikely it is that God actually did create the universe.

2. Love is the term we give to the accumulation of many chemical such as dopamine that are released in the brain to give us a pleasureful sensation. Love is the concept that we made up to describe that accumulation of chemicals. We do not need a God to created it because it is created as a by product of evolution. Also, you say if I know how to spontaneously create a universe then I could be a God. That is true but I do not know how to create a universe spontaneously but I can know that it was created spontaneously but that does not mean I am God.

3. Well, you do not know how to use rhetorical questions constructively ad you use them to your disadvantage.

4. For the final time, just because you do not know does not mean it is god. You have no more evidence that an invisible man created the universe than a giant squid creating the universe. You are justing guessing because you are not certain. P.S. Obviously we do not have the same morals because I do not need an invisible man in the sky to make me feel better about all my problems. Instead, I just learn from them and move on instead of acting as if no damage was done.

5. But that is the thing. You know that God is there and that God will punish you in the after life if you do not do as he says so obviously that is not true. You are comparing God to my parents and my parents and god are different people. If I mess up with my parents they punish me for maybe a day. But if I mess up with God, then I receive an eternity of burning. HOW IS THAT GOOD!!!

6. Well, I have actual evidence that the universe could have been created without a god but you have no evidence of how it was created by god?

If you know who creates God that does not means you are god. That just means that you have evidence for what you are talking about.

GIVE ME EVIDENCE OF WHERE GOD CAME FROM, WHY HE EXIST, AD WHY THE UNIVERSE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED SPONTANEOUSLY.

7. What makes the Bible different from another book? They both have words. They are both just books.

"I would argue that free will does exist because it is our decisions that lead us to our doom." If we don't get to choose our brain, which makes our decisions, then how do we have free will.

You are not addressing, ""Also, if god is supernatural and not bound by time then he would be spontaneously living in all time frames throughout history. If this is true, then god would have created everything at the same time throughout history. So, he would have created us knowing that we would fail him. If you say that free will is the reason that we betrayed him, then I would say that free will does not exist because our decisions are made by our brain. If we claim that god created us, then god created our decision making organ, the brain, in a way that would result in us betraying him. If you claim that the soul is what lets us do our decision making, then the same logic would apply from the brain."

Why would God let us fail if we claim he is good and perfect? Why would he create a specific scenario knowing that we would fail him and knowing that certain people were going to burn for eternity? BUT SOME HOW HE LOVES US

Free Will does not exist. PROVE TO ME THAT IT DOES BECAUSE YOU
Apple7

Pro

"1. You are saying why I feel love? I feel love because chemicals in the brain are released and allow us to feel a pleasureful sensation. Love is there because the chemical in our brain that create this feeling exist. Why do I exist? Evolution from single celled organisms. Why? Why? Why? You are doing this thing where you ask why to everything and if you do not have and answer, then you fill your uncertainties with God. God is a guess not a fact and humans have discovered how unlikely it is that God actually did create the universe."

-Why was that chemical in our brain allow us to feel love to exist in the FIRST place? And again, you're trying to EXPLAIN what love is, not what love itself is. God is not a guess nor a fact, but a being that we thought had created the universe and human.

"Why do I exist? Evolution from single celled organisms."

-Evolution is a theory, NOT FACT. I'm asking where are they (the single cells) in the FIRST place. I'm not filling up my uncertainties with God, but I hope that you COULD explain it otherwise if you can.

"2. Love is the term we give to the accumulation of many chemical such as dopamine that are released in the brain to give us a pleasureful sensation. Love is the concept that we made up to describe that accumulation of chemicals. We do not need a God to created it because it is created as a by product of evolution. Also, you say if I know how to spontaneously create a universe then I could be a God. That is true but I do not know how to create a universe spontaneously but I can know that it was created spontaneously but that does not mean I am God."

-You can only explains love and how it works, not love itself and how it came to be. I do agree with you that love is a concept that we made up to describe that accumalation of chemicals but WHY is it there in the FIRST place? "We do not need a God to created it because it is created as a by product of evolution." EVOLUTION IS A THEORY, and what you're saying is we do not need a god to created it because it is created as a by product of evolution, sounds like a fact. So you know that it was created spontaneously but that does not mean you are a God? How do you know god's plan (you can't see god) but you're not a god?

"3. Well, you do not know how to use rhetorical questions constructively ad you use them to your disadvantage."

-No, you wanted to deconstruct my rhetorical questions and use them to YOUR advantage. I mean if you read closely, I did say that human CAN recognize instead of cannot. That's why you're a Con remember, welcome to this debate.

"4. For the final time, just because you do not know does not mean it is god. You have no more evidence that an invisible man created the universe than a giant squid creating the universe. You are justing guessing because you are not certain."

-Do I really have to welcome you back to this debate, I mean I'm a Pro remember? God is not just merely an invisible man. He or she or it is the creator of this universe. That Big Bang theory is just another way of saying why don't we mess around with physics and chemistry so we could together prove God doesn't exist. They are forcing what they've already known about the universe and apply it so that God doesn't have any room to grow because we couldn't see god and almost everything that were consider "magic" such as thunderstorms, auroras, diseases....etc, can be explain through science. Science can explain most of the event that happen in our daily lives, but could not explain something that has created it in the first place (I mean god created the universe, then us, then we go on to discover science and then use it disprove whatever happen in the beginning of time). The existence of the intangibles (such as love, consciousness, ideas..etc) add a deeper meaning to our lives since love, consciousness, and ideas exists rather than stuffs and materials from the Big Bang alone. I'm not guessing alone, I'm using reasons to derive my thoughts. So if god does not exist, the big bang theory states that nothing can create something, then why can't God be created from nothing?

"5. But that is the thing. You know that God is there and that God will punish you in the after life if you do not do as he says so obviously that is not true. You are comparing God to my parents and my parents and god are different people. If I mess up with my parents they punish me for maybe a day. But if I mess up with God, then I receive an eternity of burning. HOW IS THAT GOOD!!!"

-This world if full of cause and effect. Without punishment you'll never be good. The same concept. You would not behave the say way when your parents were there comparing to when they're not. Same with God, if god is there and prevent all of your "nasty" (I'm not trying to offend you in any ways) actions, then you would know where you'll most likely going to end up afterlife. And mess up with God is way more serious, I mean you have to commit like some of the serious sins. I'm talking about serious stuff here like murder for example. That explains why free will exists.

"6. Well, I have actual evidence that the universe could have been created without a god but you have no evidence of how it was created by god?"

-Actually I do, the evidence here is look at the universe. So without a God, nothing can create something? It doesn't make any sense at all. And you just further proving that the big bang works (which theoretically it can but physically it can't). I WISH I could get something from nothing.

"If you know who creates God that does not means you are god. That just means that you have evidence for what you are talking about."

-You don't even know what kind of materials God is made of (I mean not tangible stuffs of course), how do you know who creates God. The only being that knows who creates God is God of Gods. That God of Gods must have reveal himself to you and show you the "magic" behind creating a god. And by the way, I've never heard God did reveal his true form to us so in order to know what God is made of, first you got find God.

"7. What makes the Bible different from another book? They both have words. They are both just books."

-The bible is god's words. God didn't personally get down to earth and give us a book called "The Bible." instead, from the Bible, the son of god (the term son of god has nothing to do with the father god has a wife) came down to heaven redeem this sinful earth and people recorded his words and parables down into a book and later a combination of other books to form a complete 73 books bible. Unlike any other books, the bible itself is god's words.

"If we don't get to choose our brain, which makes our decisions, then how do we have free will."

-Before I answer it let me ask you a few question. Do you get to choose your own birth dates, your gender, your parents, color of your eyes....etc. NO. It happens when you, with your predetermined birth date, gender, parents...etc. use it to choose your own action, do what you want to do and act upon your own will. If you choose to for example pick up a pencil. How is it not free will, who is controlling your brains beside you yourself to pick up the pencil?

"Why would God let us fail if we claim he is good and perfect? Why would he create a specific scenario knowing that we would fail him and knowing that certain people were going to burn for eternity? BUT SOME HOW HE LOVES US
Free Will does not exist."

-God did create human to be perfect but with our free will, we choose to disobey god and that came with a consequence (original sin). Free will is YOU choosing to do what YOU want to do without the intervention of anyone or anything. I think you are confuse with free will with consequences and free will itself. Free will with consequences is something that you did and later in your afterlife you would be punish for whatever you've done. And free will is just simply choosing to do what you want without intervention.
Debate Round No. 3
Debate_King1475

Con

PLEASE PUT EXTRA EMPHASIS AT THE END BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ADDRESSING MY MAIN QUESTION.

"you're trying to EXPLAIN what love is, not what love itself is"

Stop talking about love we are debating the existence of a god and not what love is

Also, how do know that the big bang theory isn't the beginning?

You say that something had to have caused the big bang but how do you know that god caused the big bang?

Why does the big bang theory need a cause?

You might say that something cannot come from nothing but how do you know that?

Also, evolution is scientific theory. Let me explain the difference between a theory and a scientific theory. A scientific theory is not 100% but is much more likely to have happened because there is research and experimentation to back it up. A theory is something that you guess without any evidence, testing, or any knowledge of really. I know I said evolution is not 100% but there are example of evidence that makes it seem 99.999% chance that it is true such as that monkeys and humans have similar DNA 96% similar, the embryonic development of many organisms are very similar and I could go on. But for you, you are saying that I think there is a god because I think with absolutely no evidence that the universe could not have been created by accident because I can't imagine it. And yet when someone asks me who created god, I tell them that god didn't need a creator because that is just how god works. I say poppycock. You have no proof.

Going back to how do you know god's plan? That is a silly question because there is no god so how could there be a plan? Plus, if he had a plan, then I know that it was a poorly thought out plan. Do you know why? That is because there is death, suffering, corruption, so many different religions, ebola, and I could go on. I think that if there was an all knowing god then he is no good. But god literally is one letter short of good (god+o=good). Also, why do you use illogical fallacies such as free will to justify your point. Free will does not exist because all of our decision are based on our brain. If we did not have a brain, then we would not be able to comprehend. So our decisions are based on our brain. But, did we get to choose which brain that we got. No!!! Because if the brain is used for choosing and we were given our brain without choosing then we did not get to choose our decision making organ in the body. That would mean that our decisions on this earth are based on things that we can not choose. Plus, if god already planned out what is going to happen, then wouldn't that means that our actions are merely a byproduct of his plan. That is why there is no free will. Also, we do not get to choose the thoughts that come into our head before they come into our head and since thoughts makes words and thoughts make actions so we did not get to choose our actions.

You are spot on. I use your rhetorical questions to my advantage because they set up me conquering the argument.

Yes. Science explained that the big bang created the universe and it did not need a creator. Science can explain everything in the universe. We have proof of the big bang but you have no proof that god exists. God would create something that proves that he exists not create something that disproves that he exists. You have no proof that the universe needed a creator and I have proof why it is unlikely that there is god.

" I'm not guessing alone, I'm using reasons to derive my thoughts." I simply thought this quote that you said was funny.

"Without punishment you'll never be good" Why?

"So without a God, nothing can create something? It doesn't make any sense at all." Your only justification is that it does not make sense. String theory does not make sense but that does not make it false.

How do you know that the Bible is god's word.

I talked about free will above so I do not want to address it again.

"If you choose to for example pick up a pencil. How is it not free will, who is controlling your brains beside you yourself to pick up the pencil?" Your brain told you to pick up the pencil. Nothing else needed to. You did not get to choose your brain. I explained this as well above. That is why there is not free will. REMEMBER I ADDRESSED FREE WILL ABOVE!

I proved to you why there is no free will so tell me which part of my argument about free will is an illogical fallacy. If there are none, then I am correct. But, if you can find something that is wrong (no typos DUHHHH) then I will have to change my statement.
Apple7

Pro

-If you can tell me what are immaterial things are instead of explaining them, then the same way you would apply to God which lead you to believe that intangible things can be real or more real than the tangibles. And God, which is the intangible had created the intangible as well as the tangible. The same way you would not be able understand what God is made of is the same way machine would not understand what we made of because they just don't.


-I would ask you the opposite, how do you know that the big bang is the beginning? Big bang is a theory, not a fact. If you can argue that it is a fact, good luck. How do I know that god caused the big bang? Actually the answer for that question is I DO NOT know. My question for you is: “how do you know that the big bang is real?” I can imagine but is what I imagined, true?


“Also, evolution is scientific theory. Let me explain the difference between a theory and a scientific theory. A scientific theory is not 100% but is much more likely to have happened because there is research and experimentation to back it up. A theory is something that you guess without any evidence, testing, or any knowledge of really. I know I said evolution is not 100% but there are example of evidence that makes it seem 99.999% chance that it is true such as that monkeys and humans have similar DNA 96% similar, the embryonic development of many organisms are very similar and I could go on.


-You sound like: “Ooooo, our theory is not 100% true but just 99.999%.” That’s good, then stop make it sounds like a fact because it’s not. And we don’t call it “Evolution scientific theory” but just “Evolution theory” so if you might misunderstood when I say evolution is not fact but theory. What I mean is the evolution is an “Evolution Theory” not “Evolution Fact” my dude. So whenever you want to address evolution, please call it the “Evolution Theory” (not everytime but make it clear so that I can see that this is not a fact) or else, unacceptable. And I didn’t say that I think there is a god because I think with absolutely no evidence that the universe could not have been created by accident because I can’t imagine it. Actually, I can imagine, but is it true?


-THAT IS AN INSULT AND YOU NEED TO BACK OFF. Get my point straight my dude, the big bang theory doesn’t make any sense. The “fact” that this universe was created by nothing and just bang (without any outside force) EVERYTHING was created. I can imagine, is it just what I’m imagine is REALLY what happen or you people just say: “hey, there is a possibility that god was not needed to created this universe.” Do you see that word, POSSIBILITY? And one of the questions during my previous argument was: "so if the big bang states that you can theoretically get something out of nothing, then why can’t god be created from nothing?"


“Going back to how do you know god's plan? That is a silly question because there is no god so how could there be a plan? Plus, if he had a plan, then I know that it was a poorly thought out plan. Do you know why? That is because there is death, suffering, corruption, so many different religions, ebola, and I could go on. I think that if there was an all knowing god then he is no good. But god literally is one letter short of good (god+o=good). Also, why do you use illogical fallacies such as free will to justify your point. Free will does not exist because all of our decision are based on our brain."


-There, you sound very ignorant by asking me to answer you this question: “Going back to how do you know god's plan?” Seriously, I think you didn't read my points correctly by asking me how do I know god’s plan? WHEN DID I SAY I KNOW GOD’S PLAN. My point is if you ask why god created this gigantic universe and only care about the earth (which you did, don’t lie man)? I said it was god's will and he can do whatever he wants. And I do not say that I know god’s plan. And you need to get your point straight and stop asking pointless questions. Then you start to judge God that his plan is poorly thought (which I didn’t). To be honest, I think that god's plan is way better than yours because you can't even think your plan straight. And you said that we do not get to choose the thoughts that come into our head before they come into our head and since thoughts makes words and thoughts make actions so we did not get to choose our actions. Uhhh, you’re really ignorant by saying this: "We didn’t choose the thoughts that come into our head before they come into our head." You sound like you know what thought itself is (but you don’t know what love itself is). And if we didn’t choose the thoughts that come into our head then what motivates you to argue with me in the first place if you yourself didn’t have free will. You choose to pick the pencil, then ok pick it up, who is going to stop you? If god plan out his action into our brain then still, free will still exist because you still freely choose whatever you want to do without intervention. That’s what free will is my dude.


“You are spot on. I use your rhetorical questions to my advantage because they set up me conquering the argument.”


-So what, you cannot use any of it against me since you think you’re so fast that you “accidentally” skip the most important word in my previous argument's point, CAN. You need to slow down man, don’t vomit stuff on here, it stinks and really, it’s starting to smell at this point.


-Science can explain everything in the universe but that doesn’t mean it’s a fact my dude. There’s no “big bang fact” but there’s something called “big bang theory.” No, you don’t have proof of the big bang, you do if it’s in paper and ink. Way to go, “smart” guy. I don’t have any proof that the universe needed a creator? Well, you just want to explain everything in a scientific way, which is not possible for god to fit in. Like, how can you find god in the laboratory? Now, that’s a silly question. First, you don’t even know what god made of and second how can you SEE god? I mean god is not a human (tangible).


“I'm not guessing alone, I'm using reasons to derive my thoughts." I simply thought this quote that you said was funny.”


-Guessing in my opinion is like vomiting to the audience. An educated guess is by using your reasons and knowledge to elaborate your thought. Which I think you’re incapable of doing it since those questions that you ask me came from your “poor” thinking.


-Human are not innately good my dude. We are not born with an angel-like attribute. How do I know that? Read the bible where it talks about Adam and Eve and the fall of grace after that. I just gave you how the big bang theory doesn’t make any sense. Then what did you do? You went to string theory now? Oh come on, in order to reach that level, first you need to somewhat believe that the big bang exist, then you can go to universes colliding each other and make other universe. Don’t run when you can’t even walk. The bible is god’s word because we copy down what god’s said. The author of the bible is human but the words itself were from god. Therefore the bible is god’s words.


-And the brain choosing? Let me tell you what, you still need a brain in order to choose the brain that you want. My point is, you still need predetermined stuffs (the stuffs that you didn’t get to choose like your gender, your birthdate, your parents….ect) to get something that you want. So use what you’ve been given and decide what you want to do with it, that’s free will. Free will does exist in a sense that you make the decision that would affect directly to you without intervention from what you've been given. If you choose to hit someone, it’s your free will and if he or she hits you back, that’s the “affect directly” from my point above. The point you made about the brain is illogical because I have to ask you how can you choose your brain if you don’t even have a brain to begin with? I mean you need a brain to choose the brain that you want, not the other way around.

Debate Round No. 4
Debate_King1475

Con

Debate_King1475 forfeited this round.
Apple7

Pro

Good debate, Debate_King1475.

-Have a nice day.
Debate Round No. 5
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