The Instigator
Dale.G
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Aceviper2011
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

God has always been Eternal

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Aceviper2011
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,710 times Debate No: 29160
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (5)

 

Dale.G

Pro

God has always been Eternal the Bible say's in Titus 1:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

/ Me Quote rules for this debate are
Number 1. no name calling

Number 2. stay on the topic
Aceviper2011

Con

Side note Statements abbreviated: (S); Point Statements: (P)


Eternity
-No beginning, no end, immortal.

S1) Knowing of the King James Bible, this bible is used majority of the christian religion. This from what I see is about the christian God.

S2) In my previous debate I shown evidence in the christian bible of verses saying one thing to another, showing flaws, and contradictions, of the christian bible: King James Version, also New King James Version.

P1) To have eternity, there has to be a cause.
Example what I mean of having a cause: To have a child, the cause would be reproduction, without a sperm of a man, and egg of a female, there could be no absolute way to cause a child.
PA) So without no cause of the christian God to have eternity, that leaves the christian God with no eternity.

P2) Also with no evidence of christianity God of even existing, only told by a book, clearly written by men. There no way my opponent can say christian god has eternity, without first proving, there is a god first.

P3) Since my opponent cannot go off of topic about proving evidence of a God, then Proving his so call eternal, I can only see what my opponent evidence is. Since only a book said there is a god, also speaks of eternal, my opponent would have to show hard evidence. To convince us, that Something is eternal, since he can not break his own rules of going off topic by showing evidence of a book.

P4) Since the christian bible contradicts itself, and has many flaws, proving of eternal, became really slim.

I will make a quick small arguement about eternity, the question we must ask is How can something become eternal without a cause, also how can something create itself to be eternal, its impossiple. Unless my opponent can give proof, of a god without going off topic of showing eternal without evidence of a god.

Meaning you can not prove of eternal god if you first have to prove a god exist, since my opponent stated no going off topic, he can not prove of a god for thats a whole different topic, meaning he can not prove of eternal of the god, he can not prove exist.

Goodluck to my opponent
Debate Round No. 1
Dale.G

Pro

First of all I would like to thank Aceviper2011 for debating me.

OK Alright here is my proof God has always been Eternal, the answer is the Holy Bible,' well I would like to ask Aceviper2011 has he ever felt the bible, has he ever seen the Bible before, has he ever read the bible before.

OK The Bible is my proof that God has always been Eternal, the bible says in Deuteronomy 33:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

/ Me Quote God who is Jesus Christ has given me Eternal Life I am going by a eye witness account here: The Apostle John said in 1 John 5:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 said this to me To have eternity, there has to be a cause.
I will answer that question God Jehovah is has always will be Eternal God has always Existed OK MOST UNBELIEVERS SAY WHO MADE GOD
this is what I have to say
ok to one who examines the Evidence, there can be no doubt that God exist Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker the fact of the existence of the creator is axiomat-ic ( self-Evident). that's why the bible says Psalm 14

1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good ( Psalm 14:1) the professing Atheist denies the common sense given to him by God and defends his belife by thinking that question who made God ?' can't be Answered this he thinks, gives him license to deny the Existence of God the question of who made God can be Answered by simply looking at space and asking dose space have an end? Obviously, it doesn't. if there is a brick Wall with ' end written on it, question arises, 'what is behind the brick wall? strain the might though it may, we have to believe (have faith ) that space has no beginning and no end the same applies to God he has no beginning and no end he is eternal. the bible also informs us that time is a dimension that god created, into witch man was subjected, it even tells us that one day time will no longer exit that will be called eternity ' God himself dwells outside of the dimension he created 2 Timothy 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 1:2
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

he dwells in eternity and is not subject to time, God spoke history before it came into being. he can move though time as man flips though History because we live in the dimension of time logic and reason demand that everything must have a beginning and an end we can understand the concepts of God's Eternal nature the same way we understand the concepts of space having no beginning and no end - by faith we simple have to believe they are so even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum

OK yes my God who is the Lord Jesus Christ has being seen by many eye witness. :) like I said to many people before If you where to call out to Father God and ask Father God to show you Jesus Christ to you in a dream and vision Jesus will show himself to you. the fact that some people who do not believe in God they choose not to believe in God so how can they find God, if they disbelief if you have disbelief in God you cannot please God. or come to God The Bible say's in Hebrews 11:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

/ me Quote Jesus Christ birth was a Miracle you will need to believe in God who is the Lord Jesus Christ and have faith Jesus Christ birth is a Miracle.

If someone lacks the belief in God then they would be looking for God instead of not believing.

I got a question to ask you Aceviper2011 would a Judge accept a dead men's Testimony yes or no answer.

/ Me Quote God who is the Lord Jesus Christ can create things, why because God who is the Lord Jesus Christ has always been Eternal.

/ Me Quote I would like to ask Aceviper2011 dose he believes the earth is Eternal.

/ Me Quote I would like to ask this question to Aceviper2011, What brought the universe into existence? It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it. The Bible promotes this sufficient cause as God. What does atheism offer instead of God? If nothing, then atheism is not able to account for our own existence.

Saying the Bible is full of contradictions does not mean it is so. Can you provide a contradiction that we can examine in context? There are many websites that address alleged contradictions. Here is one: www.carm.org.

/ Me Quote I would like for Aceviper2011, for you not to say God dose not Exists you would have to know all thing's where do? I live, where was I born, if you cannot answer that question and if you even get that question wrong then you cannot say God dose not exists. :)

History talks about the full of Jericho The Bible talks about the full of Jericho the bible say's in Hebrews 11:30
King James Version (KJV)
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

/ Me Quote here is what History has to say about the walls of Jericho, Jericho:
Joshua 6, tells how Israel conquered the walled city of Jericho. For six day they marched once around the city. On the seventh day they went around it seven times. The priests blew their trumpets, the people shouted, and when they did, "The wall fell down flat" (Joshua 6:20). The people then rushed strait way into the city and burned it. They took none of it to themselves. They saved Rahab who lived in a house upon the wall and who had helped them previously.

Starting in 1929, Dr. John Garstang, excavated the ruins of ancient Jericho. His discoveries corresponded remarkably with the Biblical account. Jericho, he found, had a double wall, with houses built across the two walls. This explains how Rahab's house could have been built upon a wall. He learned that the wall was destroyed by some kind of violent convulsion such as that described in the Bible, and that when the wall feel that it fell outward, down the hillside, or as the Bible says, it fell down flat. Had the wall been destroyed by the battering rams of an enemy army, the walls would have fallen inward instead of outward. Furthermore, the city had been burned. Once again, the spade of archaeology has established the accuracy of the Bible.

/ Me Quote thus I have just proven the God who is the Lord Jesus Christ is Eternal, it is just up to Aceviper2011 to call out to Father God and ask Father God to show him Jesus Christ in a dream and vision. Aceviper2011 are you willing to do just that, are you willing to speak out of your mouth and ask dear Heavenly Father God can you show me the Lord Jesus Christ in a dream and vision, and Aceviper2011 Jesus Christ will come to you :) if you call out to Father God to show you the Lord Jesus Christ to you in a dream and vision and Jesus Christ dose come to you in dreams and visions. then that means I am right about how I have seen the Lord Jesus Christ in dream and vision, thus Aceviper2011 you will then become a believer so I will leave you with that. :)
Aceviper2011

Con

OK Alright here is my proof God has always been Eternal, the answer is the Holy Bible,' well I would like to ask Aceviper2011 has he ever felt the bible, has he ever seen the Bible before, has he ever read the bible before?

RE: Yes I have, I was actually a christian once, went to a christian church, also read the bible. Yes I have, even though that does not go with the topic of this debate, I will ask the voter's not to deducted any points from this question he has asked me.

OK The Bible is my proof that God has always been Eternal, the bible says in Deuteronomy 33:27
King James Version (KJV).

RE: Once again if my opponent wishes to prove how the christian god is eternal, he first has to break his rule, going off topic to even prove a god exist. Just because I had let it slide once, this time the topic rule does apply.

27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

RE: My opponent still has failed to even proven the existance of a christian god, for the book is truely written by men, so any regard of the bible saying so is a hear say, making the accusation of eternal god false, since no proof of a god going away from the bible is true. For my opponent to prove such thing, he will have to break his rule to doing so, thats go off topic and creating a new issue.

My opponent states: God Jehovah is has always will be Eternal God has always Existed OK MOST UNBELIEVERS SAY WHO MADE GOD
this is what I have to say
ok to one who examines the Evidence, there can be no doubt that God exist Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker the fact of the existence of the creator is axiomat-ic ( self-Evident).

RE: My opponent has shown some suprising text here in his arguement, as we all can see clearly, my opponent stated: "there can be no doubt that God exist; every builder has a builder, everything made has a maker, so we ask ourselves since my opponent stated everything made has a maker, every building has a builder. Taking from that, he is saying that everything cannot be made without a maker, so all do with respect, who made god?

P1)
Staying on topic: If my opponent agreed by his own words viewers then this so god which can not be proven to exist due to stay on topic rule: There is no way this so call god he speaks of can be Eternal.


"he dwells in eternity and is not subject to time, God spoke history before it came into being. he can move though time as man flips though History because we live in the dimension of time logic and reason demand that everything must have a beginning and an end we can understand the concepts of God's Eternal nature the same way we understand the concepts of space having no beginning and no end - by faith we simple have to believe they are so even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum"

RE: My opponent clearly states in the beginning of the paragraph, "he can move though time as man flips through history; because we live in the dimension of time; logic, and reason demand that everything must have a beginning, and a end, we can understand the concepts of God's Eternal nature the same way we understand the concepts of space; having no beginning and no end- by FAITH, we simply have to believe they are so EVEN though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum.
S1) When you have faith, you baisically are saying I am hoping this is true, for example: I have faith the answer to this math problem is right. In other words, I am crossing my fingers, or else I am screwed. When my opponent said faith, he is hoping, that he is right on saying there is a eternal god.
S2) Re-reading that little paragraph, it came to mind when my opponent stated: we live in the dimension of time, logic, and reason. Since we live in that time, sufficiently when trying to say a god is eternal, my opponent has to so logic, time, and reason, on how is this god eternal, without logic, reasoning, time of proving the existance of a god, you can not prove of anything eternal. Like i said before, Without my opponent breaking his rule, he can not start a new topic to prove of a gods existance.

/ Me Quote God who is the Lord Jesus Christ can create things, why because God who is the Lord Jesus Christ has always been Eternal.

RE: Big contradiction Alert: Opponent "God who is the Lord Jesus Christ can create things, why because God who is the Lord Jesus Christ has always been Eternal" did my opponent, just admit that God was Lord Jesus Christ, is it not taught from the christian bible not to make false gods, so now my opponent said this so called god in the OT whom created everything, is now in the NT Jesus Christ, saying Jesus Christ is eternal, and he create things. So there was no true god, and Jesus Christ could not be eternal since he died. Since eternity is immortality, that makes like you said god who is jesus christ non eternal. My source on this Would be the bible KJV. Also my source would be my opponents argument.
Breaking news: my opponent has proven there is no god, or said there is no god. I still stayed on topic.

/ Me Quote I would like to ask this question to Aceviper2011, What brought the universe into existence? It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it. The Bible promotes this sufficient cause as God. What does atheism offer instead of God? If nothing, then atheism is not able to account for our own existence.

RE: my opponent is starting to go off topic. So I will not break no rule I will be in topic so i shall exclude a comment to this topic that is not of the topic.

Starting in 1929, Dr. John Garstang, excavated the ruins of ancient Jericho. His discoveries corresponded remarkably with the Biblical account. Jericho, he found, had a double wall, with houses built across the two walls. This explains how Rahab's house could have been built upon a wall. He learned that the wall was destroyed by some kind of violent convulsion such as that described in the Bible, and that when the wall feel that it fell outward, down the hillside, or as the Bible says, it fell down flat. Had the wall been destroyed by the battering rams of an enemy army, the walls would have fallen inward instead of outward. Furthermore, the city had been burned. Once again, the spade of archaeology has established the accuracy of the Bible.

/ Me Quote thus I have just proven the God who is the Lord Jesus Christ is Eternal,

RE: Looking at that paragraph I had found that, my opponent had acknowledged the walls falling down outward, down the hillside. then he said the bible said it fell down flat. When a wall of stone has fell outward that could mean two scenerios 1. The army Pulled the walls down, or 2. since you did state the walls were not taken down after seven days. with no true evidence of a huge hand coming from the sky to knock it down your claims of a god destroying is not valid. earthquack created by natural causes, or rain made the stones weak enough to just crumble, since water is our strongest element could made the stones weak to crumble and fall flat that sounds more reasonable.
Then my opponent said I have just proven the god who is again Jesus Christ, is eternal, my opponent has not proven anything logical, only source is a bible, with no scientific facts only words from a man.

Why in a dream, why not in front of everyone, awake. My opponent went off topic breaking his own rules, points deduction is called on Pro.

Eternal have to have a cause, you cannot be eternal without first a cause, the christian Jesus Christ spoke of the cause to have an eternal life, and thats to believe, so the cause is believe, the reward for believing is eternal life, having eternal is just not a snap of a finger, with out no one to pass down from it. no eternal has to be passed down, even stated by how to gain eternal is by believing, so working for eternal, So if god was there he had to earn it.
Debate Round No. 2
Dale.G

Pro

I am not going off Topic at all why because you Aceviper2011 went off Topic when you said this to me Also with no evidence of christianity God of even existing, only told by a book, clearly written by men. There no way my opponent can say christian god has eternity, without first proving, there is a god first.

/ Me Quote that is when I am proving God who is the Lord Jesus Christ is Eternal plus I am proving God who is Jesus Christ is real Aceviper2011 I am only answering your question that your raised to me :)

Plus Aceviper2011 when you said Goodluck to my opponent
/ Me Quote that wins the debate for me why because you want me to win :)

So Aceviper2011 you have read the Bible and you know the bible was written by Men nice one so you agree that the bible exists wow I like that one the fact that your have seen the bible that proves God is real you cannot disprove that

Aceviper2011 why are you going off topic Aceviper2011 you went off topic by saying did my opponent, just admit that God was Lord Jesus Christ, is it not taught from the christian bible
/ Me Quote I will debate you on Jesus Christ being God in another debate as I am trying to debate you on God has always been Eternal it is hard when you Aceviper2011 went off topic by saying Also with no evidence of christianity God of even existing, only told by a book, clearly written by men. There no way my opponent can say christian god has eternity, without first proving, there is a god first.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you can debate me on God being real but you need to know that the topic is God has always been Eternal

Aceviper2011 I did say that God has always being Eternal right one way of God being Eternal is God has to always exists for someone to be Eternal they must be Eternal :) thus therefore God is Eternal

I will ask you Aceviper2011 a question for the universe to exists it has to have a creator right would that creator be Eternal

I would like to ask you Aceviper2011 a question what if your where wrong about God not being Eternal what if you found out that God has always been Eternal.

Where did God come from?
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. God has no beginning or end... He is outside the realm of time.
Aceviper2011

Con

P1) of course the bible exist, you can buy one at the store, you can see the existing of the bible, you can feel the bible, you can see the bible. Just because the bible exist that does not mean god exist, the only arguement my opponent has is the bible. Other then that, my opponent shares no BoP, other then the bible. When reading the bilbe its a hear say, with no pure proof, of a god, neither eternal god. which now makes the both of them mythical. imaginative, not proof.



The speaker name is Dr. Michio Kaku who talks about immortality, religion with no evidence and actual evidence of scientific geology.

P2) this man is saying, basically religions terms of an eternal god starts, when you open a book, since thats the only proof showing of the eternal god, but once you close the book the eternal cease to exist.

S1) I have not went off topic from this debate, My statements clearly shows my opponent going off topic.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

RE) Time is a property that is the result of the existance of matter, but wait TIME exist when MATTER exist. Time has even been called the fourth dimension, But GOD is not MATTER, in fact GOD created matter. When you speak that time exist when matter exist, but knowing that eternity is a time frame regardless how far to look back, when matter did not exist time did not exist, but when matter exist time then exist, so since eternity is a form of time, then how can eternity exist then not exist at the same time, it cannot do that, so basically your eternal god, cannot exist and exist at the same time. Then this is were you contradicted your self i knew it was going to happen in this debate sooner or later, how can a god be beyond eternity, when eternity is a form of time.

since you said, without matter time does not exist, since eternal is a form of time, how can eternal god exist without matter first being created to create time. Then I believe you caught yourself, taking god out from eternity, saying he is beyond eternity now.

My opponent clearly now states that god is not eternal. which then next he will try to bring up another excuse to debunk his own statement when his own writtings just stated. Now once my opponent see this, he will then next round show us a contradiction, Flip Flop back got to eternal, but then he would then falsly he made a wrong move again taking god away from beyond eternal, just like he took god away from being eternal. Pro in other words is for con. and con is for con.

P3) Remember viewers this round is very important, when viewing this round take a closer look at my opponents arguement, then take a look how i broke his arguement down. This is not a twist of words, I did not twist his words i used his own words. I just brought out the words. in the next rounds, my opponent clearly now has to be very careful for what he says, for he now defined god not eternal. I'll make the statement more clear that he posted. Here is his statement: God is even beyond eternity. My opponent just said god is not eternal anymore, when you go beyond your leaving the eternal statement. Yet since he still shown no BoP only hear say from a book, that man wrote, he can not show any proof or truth, its only invalid proof,

Viewers please before casting a vote re-read this round. as confirmation.

Debate Round No. 3
Dale.G

Pro

Aceviper2011 you said this to me of course the bible exist, you can buy one at the store, you can see the existing of the bible, you can feel the bible, you can see the bible.

/ Me Quote you cannot go back on your word by saying of course the bible exist, you can buy one at the store, you can see the existing of the bible, you can feel the bible, you can see the bible.

/ Me Quote no one has ever Dis-proven God

In my statement to Aceviper2011 I said God is even beyond eternity.
Aceviper2011 has twisted my words around

Aceviper2011 went off topic by saying this Just because the bible exist that does not mean god exist,

/ me Quote we are debating God has always been Eternal If you want to debate me on God being real then start up a new debate about that you are making me go off topic that is not right.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 said this When reading the bilbe its a hear say,
/ Me Quote you mean bible not bilbe I would like to say that the burden of proof is now on Aceviper2011 to try to prove When reading the bible its a hear say,

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you said this to me this man is saying, basically religions terms of an eternal god starts, when you open a book, since thats the only proof showing of the eternal god, but once you close the book the eternal cease to exist.

/ Me Quote all I have to do is keep opening up the Bible thus God is Eternal because every time I open the Bible I see God Jehovah throughout the Bible Aceviper2011 has said something that makes no sense.

SOME UNBELIEVERS SAY I WILL BELIEVE IF GOD WILL APPEAR TO ME

this is what I will say on that
OK when a proud and ignorant sinner says, ' i will believe if God will appear to me, ' he has no understanding of the Nature of his creator if the mere goodness of God is manifest to any sinner he would instantly die his goodness would spill wrath upon evil men we can understand that if an earthly Judge is a good man he would be outraged by a vicious murder and must do his best to make sure the wicked criminal is brought to Justice it is his goodness that makes him passionate for Justice to be done it is the goodness of God that will make sure every murder and rapist is brought to justice on Judgement day however God is so good so pure and Holy that he is utterly provoked to just retribution by any evil (anger greed envy pride lust lying jealousy hated etc.). the only way man may live in the presence of a Holy God is to be hidden in the rock of Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 10:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

the pure hart shall see God (see Matthew 5:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

and only way we can become pure is though the righteousness of the Savoir

when God Appeared to certain men in the old testament he manifested himself in an other form such as a burning bush or the Angel of the Lord however, no man has seen the face to face ' ( Exodus 33:11
King James Version (KJV)
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

it is an example of anthropomorphism. when Moses simply gazed at were God has been, his only own face shone with the Glory of God that Israel could't even look at him (see Exodus 34:29-35
King James Version (KJV)
29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.

31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.

32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.

33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.

34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

the Christian has the light of the knowledge of the Glory of God in face of Jesus Christ (see 2 Corinthians 4:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

what meant to say is this eternity is also something that can be absolutely related to God I mistakenly put not in there

one reason why God is Eternal, is because I can feel God Love Joy Peace God created the wind The Wind is Eternal I cannot see the Wind but I can feel the wind but it dose not make me crazy for feeling God Love Joy and pace if you think i am crazy for feeling God love Joy and Peace then you will think I am crazy for feeling the wind when I cannot see the wind.

God is Eternal because the Bible say's in Deuteronomy 33:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you cannot disprove Deuteronomy 33:27

Aceviper2011 you went off topic by saying Since the christian bible contradicts itself,

/ Me Quote say that in a new debate as this debate is about God has always been Eternal

THE ETERNITY OF GOD One of the most difficult things for the human mind to grasp and understand is the
eternity of God. The fact that God is an uncreated eternal being that has no beginning or
end is extremely hard for us to imagine. There was never a time when God did not exist.
He has always existed and will always exist. There are some attributes of God that are
part of His eternal makeup that are as eternal as He is and must exist as long as God
exists.
A good example of this is, God"s power. God has all possible power. There is no greater
power that exits. Did God create his own power? Was there ever a time when God did not
have power? These questions are really stupid and ridiculous. God could not create His
own power anymore than He could create Himself. If God created His own power, then
that would mean that before He created it, He did not have any power. In other words,
God would not have had the power or the ability to create His power.

Another example is, God"s knowledge. God has all possible knowledge. There is no
greater knowledge that exits. There is nothing knowable that God does not know. Did
God create his own knowledge? Was there ever a time when God did not have
knowledge? Again these questions are really stupid and ridiculous. God could not create
His own knowledge anymore than He could create Himself. If God created His own
knowledge, then that would mean that before He created it, He did not have any
knowledge. In other words, God would not have had the knowledge or the ability to
create His knowledge.
Aceviper2011

Con

Dale look I am really trying to be nice to you. I have not once insulted you, or any of your questions, by calling them stupid or rediculious. You insulted me, you not only just insulted me, also insulted many people. you spoke of a rule in your first round 1: do not insult. It is ok though because I will use this rule as a law, show you a flaw of the bible, I do not even have to look this up in your bible to know what it has said for I have studied, when you said in the beginning do not insult you made a law in this debate, to show you evidence and proof of your bible being not accurate, and not true,

Remember do not twist my words, do not twist what i say, its a law now as a rule in this debate from now untill the end of this debate: IF GOD EXISTED, IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE, remember IF. meaning lets just say, or not true, but we will see if it was all true. just because i said IF god existed, if the bible is true does not mean it is.

Exodus 20:13 thou shall not kill:, was a rule/law according to your bible was passed down to civilization, remember you believe that god wrote the bible through man, so you do believe that gods commands were gods command. you believe that all words of the bible is of god, thats what you believe, so with your belief you cannnot say its not true. but anyways going back to what i was saying, knowing that thou shall not kill is a rule/law, just like your do not insult is a rule/law.

as the debate progressed, not once have you insulted me untill Round 4, by saying some questions I have asked, I have asked them kind of questions, you insulted me. So you broke your rule/law, now as the bible progressed Exodus 20:13 rule/law was broken, not just from man but god himself broke his own law as the book progressed. OPEN YOUR BIBLE TO (Deuteronomy 20:10-14. now god himself since you believe god written the book through men, since you believe its all true, god himself if he existed, told moses to do all that. meaning not only did this so call god broke his own law, but also moses did to.

There a resemblence of this, you say do not insult but yet you insulted me. I never twisted anything from you, I only spoke and broken it down what YOU SAID. Commone sense, your topic is you believe that god is eternal, but later on you said that god is beyond eternal, so how can this god if he exist, be eternal then not eternal. thats not a stupid question, thats an intellectual question, you just cannot answer why because, you cannot find your answer in your bible. LIke if I sit there and ask you ok, what does god say about the planet mars, or the planet venus, if he created it then why does he not explain why he created mars, and venus.

your then goign to say well thats a stupid question no its not, you can't answer it, why because its not in your bible. on why if this god created all, created them planets. Now questions like that defies your gods ability to answer, for during that time when this book was written they had no knowledge of them planets, to explain why this planet was created,

now going back to when you said well as long as i keep opening the bible god is eternal, but what happens when you lose your bible, or misplace it or sleep, or go to school, or go to work, you cannot open your bible for then god cease to exist, and his eternal is not eternal no more.

Then you spoke of winds, the winds are eternal, why because you can feel it, no wind is not eternal, you go outside one day the sun is shinning hot, but wait there is no wind, its still, and dry, there are days were wind does not move, but when you move you create your own wind. during them days that wind does not move.

then you say you know god real because you can feel him. no you can't, when you feel something you feel it physically, you can actually touch it, like the wind for example, you can actually feel the wind, or the wind feels you. even though you cannot see wind, but wind is actually present on earth that you can actually feel. another thing you cannot see but feel. here is another one, when its pitch black in a room you cannot see anything but yet when you touch you can feel actuall items that are on earth. you have that actual feel, not that oh i can touch god even though hes not present on earth no, it does not work that way, for to feel it has to be truely on earth, so no you have not touched god, if that was the case we will be seeing a huge arm coming down from sky.

you took god beyond eternal, first you said that this god is eternal, then now he beyond you took this so call god out of the state of eternal. Eternal is a form of time, as you said without matter how can time exist, time exist with matter, so how could your this god be eternal but yet not eternal at the same time, see without matter the time eternal did not exist. thats why after you wrote that you said beyond eternal why because you seen your flaw, now your bible never said beyond eternal. so when you said what you said you knew your words did not seem write for you try to create something that did not exist. just like religion, just like the book.

That goes back to what I have said earlier in this debate, god cannot exist then exist at the same time, eternal cannot exist then exist at the same time. it just cannot, and you realised that from your own words, when you spoke of matter, and time. you just wanted to ignore the truth of your words.

You say your god is all loving, all powerful, all mighty, knows all, then why was god not there when that guy killed those innocent 5+ year old children. when there will was taken by force not by god. were was god power then to stop that, since your religion speaks of god knows all then why wouldnt this god prevent it from happening what did them children do to your god for him to allow it and for him not to stop it.

do not bring up heaven, because it shouldn't had happen in the first place.

meaning they probually asked for gods help, for him to use his power. then finds out god never came, making your god not exist. then leaving your eternal. invalid. with out the existance of a god.

see you wont answer that question why because you will look it up in this book and cannot find the answers. but i know the answers your god doesnt exist, if he cannot exist then he has no eternal.
Debate Round No. 4
Dale.G

Pro

wow Aceviper2011 has just went off the Topic, big time please stay on the topic,' lol I never insulted you Aceviper2011,

show me where I used your name to insult you. :)

clearly I was only showing how stupid and ridiculous some questions are, what can't I have a say here Aceviper2011
I am aloud to say how some questions are stupid and ridiculous, I do not see how me saying how stupid and ridiculous some questions are as insulting. lol

Aceviper2011 you said this to me you spoke of a rule in your first round 1: do not insult.
/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 to me that's a lie,' I never said do not insult I said this / Me Quote rules for this debate are
Number 1. no name calling

Number 2. stay on the topic

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 laying is a sin.

Aceviper2011 you have not provided any proof and evidence of how God cannot be eternal, I have used the Bible to show you how God is Eternal I will repeat myself again,' shall I God is Eternal because the Bible say's in Deuteronomy 33:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you cannot disprove Deuteronomy 33:27
/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 I notice you never disproved Deuteronomy 33:27 / Me Quote no matter how much you look into the Religious Atheist book you will never disprove the eternal power of God. Checkmate

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you have insulted me by saying something I never said and Judging me and trying to force me not to debate you again.

/ Me quote Aceviper2011 I will define what beyond means 1. BEYOND
match: 100%
(3 senses as an adverb)
Farther along in space or time or degree
/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 I will explain what Father along in space or time or degree means, let's say for example you see a star out to space right now that star is always going to be out to space no person has ever touched a star but everyone can see the Star, but we cannot go out to space to touch it Science has said there is a black hole and out the end of the tunnel is a big bright light now whose behind that bright light out the end of the black tunnel Scientists want to know but they can't reach the bright light at the end of the tunnel
here is a link

/ Me Quote if wind is not eternal then we would not be here lol there is wind around me all the time what pushes the waves into the sea sore the wind lol so

I believe and I have faith God is Eternal Because I can feel God Love Joy and Peace, God is Spirit the wind is unseen to the eyes of me and you Aceviper2011

Aceviper2011 if wind touches me and you Aceviper2011 then why don't we see the wind before it touches us checkmate right there

you cannot see your ears without using a mirror

God is Eternal in loving me here is proof right here The Prophet Jeremiah said in Jeremiah 31:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Psalm 100:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

/ Me Quote I have proven that God is Eternal God is Eternal by loving me God is Eternal by shining down his mercy on me

now Aceviper2011 you cannot disprove God Eternal love and you cannot disprove God Eternal Mercy for me :)
I Feel God Eternal Love mercy in my heart most people cannot physically, see Radio - active Poisoning

/ Me Quote I have used The Bible why because The Bible is God breathed inspired word I use God word to prove that God is Eternal and there has being some books that have being proven to be true I would like to ask you Aceviper2011 this question do you believe the True Story of The Bible do you believe the true story of God being Eternal God
/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 The Prophet Isaiah said in Isaiah 40:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

/ Me Quote I will show you what the Apostle Paul said in Romans 1:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

/ Me Quote shall i go on yes I will show you proof and evidence for God being Eternal The bible says in John 17:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

/ Me Quote The Bible says in Psalm 90:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

/ Me Quote the Bible says in 1 Timothy 1:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

/ Me Quote the Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:1
King James Version (KJV)
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

/ Me Quote I can use the bible to prove God is Eternal why well the bible talks about God being Eternal no one has disproven the word of God the bible has being around before I was born. I Believe what the Bible say's about God Eternal being I believe the bible is based on a true Story. :)
God is Eternal God created me with a Spirit Soul thus my Spirit Soul is Eternal Aceviper2011 you too got a Eternal Spirit and Soul The Bible say's in Hebrews 9:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

/ Me Quote the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 5:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

/ Me Quote I have given so much proof and Evidence to prove God is Eternal people ask for proof and Evidence for God being Eternal thus I have proven God being Eternal you can go blue in your face you can try to tap dace around what I said but you cannot change me mind I will believe God is Eternal weather you like it or not :)

/ Me Quote here is another link to GOD SPEAKS: THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE

here is proof and Evidence Ian McCormack: A Glimpse of Eternity HD

Here is proof and Evidence from a doctors walk with God the link right here

Here is more Proof and Evidence

/ Me Quote I will say this you cannot say God is not Eternal why well your not God to say that you would have to know all things but I am not going to pride myself I do not know all things.

/ Me Quote I can say God is Eternal how well the Bible is my proof and Evidence for God being Eternal I believe what the True Story of what the Bible say's about God being Eternal how about you Aceviper2011 you want to know how God is Eternal pick up a King James bible and read where the Bible say's Jeremiah 31:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 it was nice debating with you God Bless you I will pray God will show his Eternal Love towards you :) you cannot prove me wrong because God is Eternal and I believe God is Eternal Dear Heavenly Father God may I pray for Aceviper2011 that you will show him how much Eternal you really are Amen
Aceviper2011

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for a calm debate, also thank him for accepting this debate.

Now let me be clear how my opponent broke one of his rule:
A) How did my opponent call me a name, by using the words stupid, for I have asked those questions once that he speaks of.

My opponent based his whole argument once again on the bible, failed to show any other proof, untill his final round. As we can tell from the people speaking from these videos, are as well followers, reading the bible, getting information from the bible.

My opponent has written "no one has disproven the word of god" well I have shown and disproven the word of god.

now Aceviper2011 you cannot disprove God Eternal love and you cannot disprove God Eternal Mercy for me :)
I Feel God Eternal Love mercy in my heart most people cannot physically, see Radio - active Poisoning.
RE:) LIke I had said, I have disproved God, like my oponent finally came to say he feels it in his heart. He only feels, he has not seen, nor has he even vision like he said he claims to have done.

Aceviper2011 if wind touches me and you Aceviper2011 then why don't we see the wind before it touches us checkmate right there?
RE) What I have said about wind, was wind is not eternal, one day you can go outside, stand still, and ceased to feel wind. You will not feel wind, unless if the wind is blowing. When the wind is blowing you can feel it, now you cannot see this god, but you also cannot feel this god physically, but you can feel wind physically.

Since you cannot feel god physically, then the christian god ceased to exist, then that will make this no god not eternal.


/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 I will explain what Father along in space or time or degree means, let's say for example you see a star out to space right now that star is always going to be out to space no person has ever touched a star but everyone can see the Star, but we cannot go out to space to touch it Science has said there is a black hole and out the end of the tunnel is a big bright light now whose behind that bright light out the end of the black tunnel Scientists want to know but they can't reach the bright light at the end of the tunnel
here is a link

RE) no one cannot touch a star, because the star is constant moving in circles, but to the naked eye it stays still. Now a black hole, no one cannot get close to a black hole, because the gravitational pull of the black hole will suck anyone in, from the experts, the center of that black hole has to much pressure, anyone caught in a black hole instantly dies, Light does not travel through a black hole, so there is no light at the end of the tunnel of the black hole. Light becomes trapped in a black hole. If any scientist say they got that close to a black hole to see a light is full of crap, for then that scientist would have to get close enough to look, but by time he gets close the gravitational pull will pull him in the black hole, killing him instantly, crushing his body, and anything he had with him.

I bet you were going to say, that light is your god, wrong, as i explained light cannot travel through a black hole.

/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 you cannot disprove Deuteronomy 33:27
/ Me Quote Aceviper2011 I notice you never disproved Deuteronomy 33:27 / Me Quote no matter how much you look into the Religious Atheist book you will never disprove the eternal power of God. Checkmate

RE:) I've never used an atheist book, I actually used, the KJ, NKJ, NLT, NEB, etc. My opponent now has shown that KJ, NKJ ect... are athiest books.

Let me speak of something else before I add a couple of videos, to educate my opponent on black holes. Again I want to talk about Eternal, and Beyond Eternal. When you take something beyond eternal, you take away eternal, If god was real, then from my opponent he said he was eternal, then puts him beyond eternal, for then he is not eternal no more.
nor was there a god to even be eternal.

Your only proof you had was a book, so just because you think this book is true, then that means you must also think all books are true, like harry potter. Now think about this, lets say your born in china, born and raised, you followed religion, your culture is china, your parents chinese, and then, as you grow up you will 100% would believe in buddah. Its just a lets just say thing, not meaning it is happening now. Do you not see though to what I am saying, you would of believed that the buddah was your god.

Here is the videos to talk to you about black holes:








Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Dale.G 4 years ago
Dale.G
there are going to be people voting on other pages so i did that so then their can be a fair debate because their has being some people who make votes and do not make a honest vote
Posted by Dale.G 4 years ago
Dale.G
THEVIRUS 'If you didn't know so then, you probably didn't.' THEVIRUS bible speaks of false conversion, in which a stony ground hearer receives, falls away.
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
well dale, I THOUGHT I knew him, and then I realized I was imagining the whole thing because of how I was raised. You only know an alternate version of your mind and not an actual god, unless of course he is real. If you can prove his existence then I will believe in him.
Posted by Mangani 4 years ago
Mangani
Dale.G, you claim to know "the Lord?"

Which "Lord?" Lord of what? Why "Lord" and not a higher rank? Oh... he's a King too? King of Kings, Lord of Lords? Isn't that like saying "President of Presidents, County executive of all County executives?"

I don't think anybody knows the "county executive" or "regional magistrate" of "heaven," but if you claim to know him, why don't you give us some evidence so that we may believe?
Posted by Dale.G 4 years ago
Dale.G
THEVIRUS I got a Question to ask you did you know the Lord
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
I was a Christian once too, but then I got into skepticism, thought through the entire thing LOGICALLY, and then made my decision. Now I'm an atheist, more on the side of a skeptic. I will believe in a god if there is substantial proof he exists, but not until then.

Oh and dale, when the bible is questioned as a source you can't keep using it to back itself up. You can't prove an un credible website credible because it said so on the actual website. TOTAL FAIL.
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
eternal huh. being here forever, with no beginning, has a cause without a cause, but through all his angels and his creations, having a eternal life after death, so gaining eternal with a cause, so making god none eternal for not having a cause for him to be eternal. then just because the bible said hes eternal. no name calling, and stay on topic, alright, you know I proven the bible contradicts itself, and has many flaws, so you know i looked at your profile, and seen you debated one guy allot, that other guy is not for god or religion, so ill know if you have more then one profile. Since there is no evidence of a god even around, you know proving a god thats does not allow himself to be seen, is going to be hard to show eternal, not only that, just because a man said he is does not mean god said he is. since man is the one who did write the book, and you know how man can't be trusted, they say one then say another. So how can we know if the man who started the bible is not lieing about some being talking to him, just because a book said so. good luck with this debate. I accept. remember ill know if you have more then one profile, i have seen your debate history. but good luck.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by wiploc 4 years ago
wiploc
Dale.GAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro plagiarized in another debate, so I decided to give this one a look. I googled this phrase, "can move though time as man flips," and sure enough. It looks like Pro is plagiarizing again. I'm calling that a full forfeit. Seven points for Con. Dale.G has to quit plagiarizing if he wants to get along here.
Vote Placed by derkcloud 4 years ago
derkcloud
Dale.GAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro seemed to think his own faith in the bible's validity was enough to convince voters that the bible alone proves his case. S&G goes to Con for obvious reasons. Conduct to Con because Pro took time to preach at Con at the end of each round.
Vote Placed by rowsdower 4 years ago
rowsdower
Dale.GAceviper2011Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate was a rather muddled affair. First off pro's posts have a rather glaring dichotomy in regards to the S/G and writing style. It is fairly obvious that pro directly copied much of his posts from unspecified sources. I gave the source points to con for this reason. This debate went all over the place and con didn't really put forth a clear argument, however neither did pro. Pro's arguments were even more disjointed. Con correctly pointed out that at one point pro categorized god as not eternal, but beyond eternal. The BOP was on pro, and he failed to meet that. The debate topic was so convoluted and ambiguous that Pro would have had a hard time making a convincing argument even if he were a skilled debater. For instance, a better topic would have been "The god of the bible is eternal."
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
Dale.GAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's only source was the Bible, which he used to try and prove the truth of the Bible wherein it says God is eternal. He repeatedly broke his own rule regarding staying on topic; he hasn't learned any new grammar tricks since the last time he debated; and his arguments were weak at best, supported by his non-source, the Bible.
Vote Placed by Mangani 4 years ago
Mangani
Dale.GAceviper2011Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I can't believe I'm doing this... Con's argument was so terrible that I had to award the best argument point to Pro. A bit of science for Con: The first law of thermodynamics establishes that energy is eternal. In a closed system, so is mass (can neither be created nor destroyed, only transferred, or transformed). Pro never made this argument, but he did make a Big Bang type argument defending God- God created time, the universe, and all matter. Con's task is nearly impossible here as to accept the debate he has already accepted the existence of God. While Con can argue that God does not exist, the context of the argument would then, inevitably, move to the context of Pro's religion of choice. Pro did a terrible job as well, but enough to establish his premise (which Con could not refute). Both had terrible spelling, and even worse grammar. Neither had very good sources for their position.