The Instigator
polka-dots323
Pro (for)
Losing
30 Points
The Contender
Scyrone
Con (against)
Winning
68 Points

God is Real.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,530 times Debate No: 2534
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (26)
Votes (30)

 

polka-dots323

Pro

I would like anyone to accept this debate who doesn't believe in God. I can and will prove to you that The Big Bang Theory and evolution just are not logical.
Scyrone

Con

By connecting the Big Bang Theory and Evolution to God, I am assuming you are speaking of the Abrahamic God. Since you seem to only want to refute arguments and not actually prove to me God is real, I will start out on the argument why he is not real.

For something to be real it must exist. For something to exist it must either be composed of matter and energy or it must be something that if it is or is not matter or energy then it's affect must be physical. Two examples would be a block of wood, and a philosophy such as Hedonism. A block of wood is there; it is composed of matter and can cause energy. A block of wood exists. Hedonism exists because it's ideas such as whatever makes you happy, are an affect on us. Sex gives me pleasure, and that is part of Hedonism. Hedonism might not be an object, but it's philosophy has physical effects because me having sex is physical. Hedonism is man created. It is for man, by man, it exists.

God does not exist. God is not composed of matter or energy. God as an idea, does not affect anything. It is God. It does not exist.

Next, the Bible which is God's word is full of contradictions. For something that says "God is real" but then has a multitude of contradictions, is not a credible source.

For example:

In the Ten Commandments it says "Do not kill".

Contradicting that point is Exodus 22:17, "You should not let a sorceress live."

Same as Isaiah 14:21, "Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants."

A Bible of contradictions that says "God is real and exists" is not a credible source.

Then we have the reason people might want to believe in God in the first place. Fear. People feared what would happen after life. People feared that there might be this unknown source of power somewhere that would rip-off there heads and burn them in a fireplace if they disobeyed him. And society itself conditions many people to believe in God for the threat of death.

Now, respond to my claims, and at least make a good argument on why "God is real".
Debate Round No. 1
polka-dots323

Pro

polka-dots323 forfeited this round.
Scyrone

Con

I have yet to see a case of why God exists. You are the Pro, the instigator. I made my case. You should make yours.

"God does exist. We as humans created this idea of if something exists. Who are we to judge if God exists in our own definition of it or not?"

Because we as Humans created this idea of God. God has no proof for existence. God has no evidence. No physical evidence at least. We as Humans define everything. We are humans. We define everything because nothing else will define it. And what good is something without a definition.

"Again, God exists. Who are we to say that we are correct? God is not just an idea. Prove to me that God is just an idea. How do explain miracles? Or just life? How were we created?"

We are correct because we are the only logical existence in this Universe (and might I remind you the highest physical evidence of the highest power). Prove to you that God is just an idea? Ok. I believe that inside my computer is a bowl of chicken noodle soup that I must worship. It's and idea. Besides the argument is not "Prove God doesn't exist", it is "Prove God does exist." Miracles do not happen. We do things for ourselves. There is no outside Church source that says "These people just prayed for this dudes headache, they laid there hands on his head. And then he was healed." Miracles do not happen. Life is life. We live for the sake of living. We live to enjoy. We live to experience. To discover ourselves. Obviously for people like you that isn't enough. How were we created? Evolution. But of course, you can disprove Evolution and the Big Bang Theory, so disprove it.

"The Bible contains no mistakes."

I just quoted mistakes. I can easily quote more.

"It is never out of date."

*sarcasm* True, we still stone people to death right? For disobeying our parents?

"It will always be reliable and true."

Prove it.

"These verses are not telling you to kill the witch or son, but rather to know that that is not the right way to live."

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

So we shouldn't be old and young children and females, right?

Unfortunately your argument makes no sense. The Bible DOES NOT say the way you are saying it. You are obviously misinterpreting it.

"There are NO contradictions in the Bible."

Mark 3:29 "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

Acts 13:39 "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses"

Wow, I just found one. And no, don't say "Well it says this but it really means this," because that just twists your so-called credible source.

"He gave them messages into which they created the Bible from."

Prove it. Prove it prove it prove it prove it. You are trying to prove God is real, not "maybe this happened" or "God exists just because". You have proven nothing yet. Nothing at all. I could say Xenu exists because Elron Hubbard said so in his "holy" books of Scientology.

"we could not explain in a scientfiical way"

But we have.

"And I do believe that I have made a good argument on why God is real."

You haven't made an argument, all you have done is respond to my claims.

"How else can you explain existance? How else can you explain the phenonmenon of life?"

Evolution, Social Darwinism, the Big Bang theory. You haven't made a single argument. All you have said is "I am right because you are wrong."

I don't even know why I am taking this into account. It is not my fault you were "1 minute" late. You have no argument out yet except mine. You needed me to attempt to prove your idea. Next time just type it out and hurry up instead of delaying and delaying till the last moment.
Debate Round No. 2
polka-dots323

Pro

First off, are you certified to be criticizing the Bible? What I mean is, have you taken a class such a Disciple or another type of Bible Study? If not, I am not going to argue the issue with you, for you do not have a clear understanding of the Bible and therefore have no right to criticize it.

"Because we as Humans created this idea of God."

No we didn't. God sent messages to the people of the ancient world. They recorded them and created the Bible. How do you explain the artifacts found in the Middle East? Or how do you explain Jesus Christ? Just because we are humans does not mean that we are correct. No matter what you say, nothing will make us right and the smartest of life. We created theories and explanations because we felt the need to explain our world and why things happen. How do you explain miracles? How do you explain the phenomenon of life? Also, millions of people world have experience God in their life. How do you explain their answered prayers??? These are just some of the things that prove God's existence.

Although, we have no scientifically proof for God, science is man-made. Again, how do we know that we are correct when stating that something is proven in science? How do you think that these prophets al got messages from a God? Did they all wake up one morning and say "I am going to write a book and it will be a chapter in a book called the Bible." No, it is not just a coincidence. Scientifical proof, again, is man-made. Humans invented the study of science. We invented ways to do this. Again, prove to me that we are correct.

"But of course, you can disprove Evolution and the Big Bang Theory, so disprove it."

Okay, so according to evolution, every life form is supposedly related to bacteria. Well, compared to the bacterial genome, human genomes contain a lot more information. So, if evolution occurs by mutations wouldn't human genomes and any other genome in that case contain less information? Through mutations, information is lost, not gained. You will attempt to reply or answer to this comment. But, just so you know, your answer that you create that seems to be correct, or sound smart, may not be so real. I am not stating that you are automatically wrong, but scientists that are involved in the NDT cannot reply or comment on this statement. And if you argue, well information can be gained though mutations also, how come pretty much no life form is simpler than bacteria? That is just one statement of proof I believe can prove evolution to be wrong. Also, how do we know that certain species evolved from certain species? We were not around to see it happen. For the Big Bang Theory, I will take an excerpt from the magazine Creation. It talks about how there are small errors in the theory.

"Most evolutionists and progressive creationists believe that the big bang occurred 13.7 billion years ago. So how big would we expect the universe to be? Even if the universe expanded at the speed of light, then the radius of the universe should be 13.7 billion light years as an upper limit, so the width of the universe is 27.4 billion light-years, right? Wrong! From new data collected from a space probe examining the Cosmic Background Radiation, astronomers estimate the universe is at least 156 billion light-years wide. Actually, it's long been known that the universe was a lot winder than 27.4 billion light years; the latest research tells us how much wider. According to researchers writing in the journal Physics Review Letters, the universe must have expanded much faster than light at its early stage. An atheist physicist, Alan Guth, proposed this over 20 tears ago- the ‘inflation' model. It's no wonder that 33 leading scientists have published an ‘Open Letter to the Scientific Community' rejecting the big bang. They refer to ‘fudge factors' such as the ‘hypothetical' inflation idea, which needs a cosmic density 20 times larger than that required for the big band to make the light elements."

That in itself shows that not all scientists believe in the big bang, and proves it to be wrong.

There you have it, I have answered your challenge in proving both wrong, and have rebutted your comments about God and "proved" Him to be real. I await your response.

As to why I didn't reply in time last time, I do not sit around on my computer waiting for a chance to debate. Not that you do, but I am just saying that I have other things to do also.
Scyrone

Con

"What I mean is, have you taken a class such a Disciple or another type of Bible Study?"

Yes, a multiple of them. I have taken 3 Bible Study classes my entire life. I have also been constantly for a year 2 different Youth Groups. I also used to go to 2 different Focus Groups. In my old Christian School I had achieved the "Determination" award for studying the Bible the most. That was all back when I used to be a Christian. I accepted God into my life at four and then took the fictional God out of my life at 17. I understand how the Bible works. Also, when the Bible verse clearly states something, it means it.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."

From Luke 16:17

It is not open to interpretation as "God" said.

"How do you explain the artifacts found in the Middle East?"

And which artifacts are these? Noah's Ark? No proof. It could just be some wood. Tabernacle? It doesn't have any proof to when it was made. It could have been made by Christians years after the Bible was sent out.

"Or how do you explain Jesus Christ?"

You can't. You haven't explained AT ALL why God is real. All you have done is basically said, "Your arguments are wrong, therefore mine are right." Which makes no sense.

"How do you explain miracles?"

No miracles are performed. Science can prove that.

"Also, millions of people world have experience God in their life. How do you explain their answered prayers???"

1. They pray for the obvious. Someone is given treatment to feel better when they are sick. THEN they will pray to God to heal them. They are healed and they think it is an act of God.

2. They pray for the past. If I had a guitar and I practiced everyday, and then I played in a concert which I played a simple song (which I could play in the dark, blindfolded, upside down, while driving and smoking a cigarette) then they would pray for me "nail that part".

3. Science. There are many things we do not know about science yet and how things happen. It is possible that science answered there prayers.

4. When I was a Christian I prayed for many things that did not include any of these subjects. I could say probably one or two of them came true. With 6 billion people on this Earth, it is possible to have a coincidence.

"These are just some of the things that prove God's existence."

No, you've put out theories, but no examples. Theories don't prove anything.

"Again, how do we know that we are correct when stating that something is proven in science?"

Answer: "science is man-made"

"How do you think that these prophets al got messages from a God? Did they all wake up one morning and say "I am going to write a book and it will be a chapter in a book called the Bible.""

Yes.

"Again, prove to me that we are correct."

Because we made science. We defined it all. Science was man-made.

I read your whole paragraph, but I'm going to reply from the bottom first.

"Also, how do we know that certain species evolved from certain species? We were not around to see it happen."

We were never around to see God. That must mean he never happened right?

Now, as for the mutations argument, mutations can repair. Or should I say the bacteria that has mutated can repair. There ya have it :D

As for the Big Bang. The Theory does not state that the Universe was not already there. It was there, but then Big Bang happened, and planets and rubble were scattered everywhere.

"That in itself shows that not all scientists believe in the big bang, and proves it to be wrong."

Not all people believe in the Holocaust, that means it's wrong too, right?
Not all people believe in electricity, that means it doesn't exist, right?
Not all people believe in God, that means it doesn't exist, eight?

You have just proven yourself wrong out of your argument, many times.

You had a chance to prove God exists. Half the time you were trying to prove the Bible is true, the Big Bang theory was false, and evolution was false. None of it proved that God is real.

There you have it :D
Debate Round No. 3
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ZeroEffect 9 years ago
ZeroEffect
Science isn't "man made". Technically I suppose you could say that because man practices science. But "science" is just the word we use to define the natural process of a species observing and testing their world.
Posted by polka-dots323 9 years ago
polka-dots323
I totally agree with you. Science is man made. :)
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
Science explains all, eh? Science can't explain thing's I've seen with my own eyes, or experienced with my own body.

Faith doesn't diminish science, it expands it.
Posted by polka-dots323 9 years ago
polka-dots323
Why where you still here? I don't know if that was being sarcastic, but it wasn't very good.
Posted by Scyrone 9 years ago
Scyrone
I have no time for this. I've got a life to attend to. Bye.
Posted by rawritsmichelle 9 years ago
rawritsmichelle
I meant you seem to be angry at my comments, or frustrated. But you don't seem hurt, so don't say you feel hurt.

Then you'd be a

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.

Ever heard of the word?
Posted by rawritsmichelle 9 years ago
rawritsmichelle
It seems like you were taking my comments pretty seriously, there. So I wouldn't really be talking.

Clearly, you haven't seen what can happen when you hurt people's 'puny internet feelings'. If you have recieved an education, you'd have to sit through the numerous videos about what has happened to those who have gotten their 'puny internet feelings' hurt. But obviously, you haven't since you think so bad of them.

Also, don't go saying that I've hurt your 'puny internet feelings' when you seem to be unaffected by my words, and you were the one against it. (Just so you don't)

Unlike SOME people, I actually do have a life. *hinthint*
Posted by polka-dots323 9 years ago
polka-dots323
Rawr did not make it personal or offensive. She was just replying to certain things you said. Also, we have a life. We do not sit around on the computer all day waiting to reply to arguments. I'm not accusing you of doing so, (cough cough) but I just do not find it funny or cool when people post things intensionally meant to bring another member down. (their puny internet feelings. This isn't gayspace/dramaspace, get a life.)We never expressed anything about our "puny internet feelings" getting hurt. We were just standing up for ourselves.
Posted by Scyrone 9 years ago
Scyrone
That last comment wasn't about you. I am here because I know how to debate, I am just not the best. I clearly pointed out a debating mistake of my opponent whom had many.

Anyways, I answered your comment, you didn't have to be talking to me.

This is when I get away from debates, when people make it SO SO SO SO SO SO SO personal and offensive that they want to drain all the life out of you for hurting their puny internet feelings. This isn't gayspace/dramaspace, get a life.
Posted by rawritsmichelle 9 years ago
rawritsmichelle
Nice thoughtfulness. Then why are you here?

Also, was I talking to you? There you go, presuming again. Haven't you heard that assuming makes an a** out of you and me? Unless you spell it wrong. Yup, its just you.
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