The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
32 Points
The Contender
Shorack
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points

God is a Racist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/23/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,600 times Debate No: 3756
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (17)
Votes (14)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

"For you are a holy people to your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth." Deuteronomy 14:2.

Since the Jews are God's "Chosen People" it follows that non-Jewish people will not be accepted into Heaven.

This is racist, because an Amazonian Indian, for example, who had never come into contact with anyone from the outside world, would be condemned to an eternity in Hell for the sin of being born in a South American jungle.
Shorack

Con

Your assumption is wrong on several levels:

First of all you claim: "God is a racist"
And your motivation is the interpretation of words from 1 religion.

There are many other religions around, some far bigger than the jiddisch religion.
2 examples: Islam (by my knowledge, both main factions) and most, if not all, Christian religions.

Second, an equal interpretation of Deuteronomy 14:2 could be: the people of Israel (in the context of the old testament) are God's most loved people.
This however doesn't imply in any way that God doesn't care about the others nor that they can't earn eternal life.

It's not because i say "Jelien is my treasured person from all the people that are on the face of the earth" that i don't care about other people and/or wish/do them harm.

Third and last: let us even presume it is true that all the other go to hell. Now, people can only be jew by being born out of a jewish mother.
Now, let's assume a jewish woman marries someone from a totally different place with a totally different skin.
They get a daughter and she does the same.
And so on.

In the end, you can have a legitimate jewish person from a totally different race and with hardly any link to the original tribe. (only a factor of 1/(2^n) with n=generation is still from the original tribe's genepool ;))
So God's preference would not be based on race in that case, so it ain't racism hence God ain't a racist.

Note that each argument on its own breaks your claim, i'm sure you'll be able to dig deeper in those old testament books to find something against my second point, but don't forget that it will still leave the other 2 arguments standing.

Kind regards,

Shorack
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

Thanks for joining the debate and putting forward your three arguments which I would like to adress in turn.

Firstly, you wrote: "There are many other religions around, some far bigger than the jiddisch religion."

Very true, and they all have their various deities. The reason I chose the deity Jews call "God" is that he is the only deity I know who is a racist.

Then you wrote "Second, an equal interpretation of Deuteronomy 14:2 could be: the people of Israel (in the context of the old testament) are God's most loved people. This however doesn't imply in any way that God doesn't care about the others nor that they can't earn eternal life."

At the risk of appearing impertinent I would like to address that point by offering you the following analogy:

In your photograph you are embracing a young lady, presumably your girlfriend or wife. While I'm sure you like lots of women, there's only one you share your bed with.* It's the same with God, he doesn't hate all non-Jews, it's just there's a sign on the Pearly Gates that reads: "Jews Only, Strictly No Gentiles".

I mean he wouldn't let me in, for example. Firstly because I didn't believe he existed when I was alive, secondly because the smell of my bacon sandwiches in the morning would upset the neighbours and thirdly because I called him a racist.

You also wrote: "…i'm sure you'll be able to dig deeper in those old testament books to find something against my second point…"

I'm sure I could as well, but trawling through religious scriptures is very dull work so can we just "take it as read" that I did and leave it at that?

Then you wrote:

"Third and last: let us even presume it is true that all the other go to hell. Now, people can only be jew by being born out of a jewish mother. Now, let's assume a jewish woman marries someone from a totally different place with a totally different skin. They get a daughter and she does the same. And so on. In the end, you can have a legitimate jewish person from a totally different race and with hardly any link to the original tribe. (only a factor of 1/(2^n) with n=generation is still from the original tribe's genepool ;)) So God's preference would not be based on race in that case, so it ain't racism hence God ain't a racist."

Using that reasoning, you could argue that there is no such thing as Anti-Semitism, which there is.** That's because, even if you weren't born a Jew, they will still let you join if you want to (I don't know what the procedure is, I expect you pick an application form at your local synagogue), but when the Torah was written most Jews were Israelites and they were God's "Chosen People", and it is mainly their descendents that make up today's Jewish population. So, although God may let one or two Jewish converts into heaven (like Sammy Davis Jr.) most Jews in the afterlife will be of Hebrew decent, thus proving that God is a racist.

*You may sleep with more than one woman, on separate occasions or at the same time, I don't know and it's none of my business, I just used the relationship between two lovers as a metaphor for the relationship between God and his followers.

** If Hitler hadn't committed suicide and had, instead, stood trial at Nuremberg, his defence lawyer could have argued that he wasn't Anti-Semitic because Semitic people include Arabs as well as people of Hebrew decent and Hitler didn't have anything against the Arabs.
Shorack

Con

Shorack forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Sweet, glad to see you agree with me :)
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
good point. maybe the debate should have accused God of being a bigot.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Sorry i meant Shorack, not brian.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
For example, take Brians R1:
"Now, people can only be jew by being born out of a jewish mother."

The problem with this statement is that its just....Wrong.

One that is not a Jew and does not have Jewish parents can convert to judaism...(the hebrew word being "ger" or convert)
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
"Preferrential treatment based on race = unequal treatment based on race = racism."

This is true, however, to apply that to this argument, one must proove that the Jews are a race...good luck with that..considering that there are hispanic Jews, Arfican american Jews...or pretty much anyone that converts to judaism is a jew. Judaism is not a race..it is a religion.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
Eggleston has made it pretty clear that, if the Bible is accurate, God has indicated at least a preferential treatment in favor of the Jewish people. Whether they are condemned to burn in hell or not is of no consiquence for the purposes of proving racism. Preferrential treatment based on race = unequal treatment based on race = racism.
Posted by The_Philosopher 9 years ago
The_Philosopher
Acts 10:34-35: "God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him"

2 Chronicles 19:7: "Now therefore, let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take care and do it, for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, no partiality, nor taking of bribes."

Job 34:19: "Yet He is not partial to princes, nor does He regard the rich more than the poor; for they are all the work of His hands."

Romans 2:11-12: "But glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God."

Galatians 5:6: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision or uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

1 Peter 1:17: "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear."
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Pro: "Since the Jews are God's "Chosen People" it follows that non-Jewish people will not be accepted into Heaven."

If you are talking about the Jewish God, then this is FALSE

As a Jew, I can say this is false. Judaism not only teaches that non-Jews can go to heaven but it also teaches that Jews can go to hell.

Judaism is based on the written law(OT) and the oral law(Talmud)

Non-Jews who aren't sinners (i.e., who obey the Noahide laws) go to heaven when they die (Talmud, Sanhedrin 102b; Maimonides, Repentance 3:5).

According to Judaism, a non jew has 7 commandments required to follow to get into heaven, while a jew has 613 commandments required to follow to get into heaven, it's actually HARDER for a Jew to get into heaven that a non-Jew according to Judaism.

7 commandments for non-Jews:

1) to establish courts of justice;
2) not to commit blasphemy;
3) not to commit idolatry;
4) not to commit incest and adultery;
5) not to commit bloodshed;
6) not to commit robbery; and (Murder)
7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal

613 Commandments for Jews:http://en.wikipedia.org...

So yeah, if you were talking about Judaism, you're dead wrong.
Posted by Shorack 9 years ago
Shorack
Crap, forgot i had a debate going on here. :x
Posted by behindblueeyes 9 years ago
behindblueeyes
judaism is a religion...not a race.
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