The Instigator
Thoughtispower
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Shadow-Dragon
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

God is a fictional figure.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Thoughtispower
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,802 times Debate No: 49323
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (45)
Votes (2)

 

Thoughtispower

Pro

My belief is that God is not real, please post in the comments if you'd like to be my contestant. Keep the argument formal and respectable please.
Shadow-Dragon

Con

Well, being a religious person, I obviously believe in God. I can understand why people may lose faith in Him, but cannot fathom why people do not acknowledge His presence entirely. Obviously, this may get religiously heated, but I feel the need to try to inform others of his true existence.
To begin, I would like to say that I am a Christian and more precisely one of the 1.2 billions Roman Catholics in the world. My opinion is that he is indeed real.

To begin, God has been, is, and always will be the most important figure in my life. I can determine that he is not a fictional character because of all that man has accomplished and all that I do today.
To explain, the idea that the universe just suddenly "formed" seems very improbable. According to physics, every reaction must have had a cause; in other words, every effect must have a cause. Surely there must have been an almighty being there to control this occurrence.
To continue, think of the "evolution" of humans on this Earth. Once again, I don't see how such complex organisms would be able to evolve on the Earth were it not for a greater power to catalyze these reactions. He has watched over us and has guided us in the right direction since then. Though, one might bring up the recent state the world is in and claim that he is not protecting us anymore. Now that we have become so advanced, people have strayed from Him. He can not force us to worship Him, but instead lead us in the right direction of living a holy life. So, it is because people have replaced him with "more important things" in their life. Though, He is the most important, and if we continue to devote our time to Him, he will continue to grace his blessing upon us.
To continue, I would like the discuss events where he has performed miracles. The Bible has written accounts of Jesus' miracles. From turning water to wine, to making a handicapped man able to walk, Jesus' life was a reflection of the holiness of God. Though, I do not want people to misconstrue my points. Jesus' life was not a way to show the power of God. No. Rather, God brought Jesus' into this world, through the Virgin Mary, to alleviate us of our sins. God is not trying to show off his power nor was Jesus. His life was a precedent for many of his disciples and followers. The miracles he performed through God were to show us that if we trust in God, we will be taken care of, and delivered into His kingdom after death.

Jesus stated, "So I say to you, Ask and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you." He points out that if one trusts in God, their prayers will be answered.
Lastly, I would like to address the point I hear of often. People say that they don't believe in Him because He has let them down. With that point, the people should look at their lives. Surely God has not let them down if they are living. They are blessed with their everyday life, and all the gifts he has showered upon them, too. Their friends, their family, their food are all a product of God's watching of His followers. I encourage you to go to Church or to try to pray. It is your choice, but personally, I have to thank God for all that he has done for me, and for all the blessings he has given me.
For these reasons and others, I believe that God is indeed a real, almighty, eternal being.
Debate Round No. 1
Thoughtispower

Pro

Yes, I the majority of the population is religious, but on the subject about creation, you left one segment of that part out. How was God created? Was he just there one day? It seems rather improbable for a higher being to appear from nothing one day and make an entire universe and human kind with powers unexplained. The subject of creation is rather hypocritical on your part if you leave out his creation, and the Bible never states one single fact about it. On another point, you said you've been religious your whole life. Has you parent's integrated the thought of god into your mind? Humans are born and taught what morals to follow, so maybe were taught religion at birth and come to abide with the belief due to lifetime experiences and everyone telling you it is right. To finalize my first argument, if there is a God and he has the power to make Earth and all that inhabit it, then why is there suffering, poverty, starvation, rape? If he has the power, he could make the World a Eden for everyone, but instead he decides to make a multitude of diseases, defects, and much more. If you say it is a part of a higher plan, to teach a lesson, then why not implant the thought into our minds instead of making us suffer and figure it out? To conclude, why would he sacrifice the lives of many generations just for one generation to experience this greater plan? To me a God like that is morally wrong and has conformed religion into a dictatorship of believe or forever suffer in Hell. There's so much to be fixed yet he continues to watch us suffer from his own actions.
Shadow-Dragon

Con

Well, I would like to start off with your point of " If there is a God and he has the power to make Earth and all that inhabit it, then why is there suffering, poverty, starvation, rape? If he has the power, he could make the World a Eden for everyone..."
I have heard that point before, and thus would like to rebuttle it. Well, have you ever heard the short proverb about giving a man a fish, then teaching him how to fish? Well, I feel like this story and typical human behavior can refute that point. To begin, one can conclude that being told something will not have much of an effect; though, learning a lesson will teach something much more.
To explain, if God did program this idea of right from wrong, then we would not learn our lesson the 'hard way' but instead blindly follow. However, this would bring an even more drastic problem. If all these good idea were pre-programed into our minds, then the world would have no freedom of choice. The idea of everyone knowing what's right, and taking the right path in life seems like a beneficial, eutopian society, but that lifestyle where there is practically no freedom of choice is a frightening thought. So, He gives us free will to go off and make our choices in hope that we'll make the right one's. This is in no way selfish or 'morally wrong' of him. Rather, we are learning our lessons.
In addition, the idea of human morals was brought up. Regarding that point, we may have some human morals initially in our minds, but besides those, many others are yet to be taught to us. Many can agree that the knowledge that someone is watching over you helps motivate people to make the right decisions.
However, you brought up the topic of 'why is there evil/ bad things in this world'. Well, that is the result of people straying from living moral lives. With the knowledge that a God is watching me, I feel encouraged- not pressured or forced- to do good. Though, others who do not acknowledge the existence of God seem to have more loose morals and do not feel the same drive to do good. (This may not be true for all, but I have persona experience with someone who is like that). To sum up that point, His presence helps guide us in the right direction, but the problems this world faces is due to temptation by the Devil, and people straying from God.
To continue, He watches over us, and tries to guide us in the right direction. He does not revel in our misfortunes, but he cannot force us to make certain decisions. In a way, people have begun to abuse their power of free will, and this abuse of power is what causes people to stray and sin. God cannot force us to do certain things because we can choose mostly for ourselves, so instead He tries to lead us in the right direction. Lastly, how would one explain how complex this world is? If there was no 'mastermind' above us, how would the world be so exact and 'perfect'? Surely there must be someone up there who is able to control the elements and universe because how else would everything just happen to fall into place?

In summation, I once again must say that God truly is real. He is the light in our darkness, someone who people can turn to in times of need. He has been there throughout all of history to keep us safe, but people have begun to stray and sin more often nowadays. Though, God has been there for us, and will continue to be here to guide us to happiness.
Debate Round No. 2
Thoughtispower

Pro

You are correct to a certain extent, that hope is what drives the majority of humanity to do the right thing. However, it is also what blinds us from doing the right thing as well. Although you feel the lesson is to be learned the hard way, why go to drastic measures of birth defects or terminal diseases? Certainly the thought can be put into any individuals mind if you have the full extent of power as God. Our minds relate past experiences with humanistic and moral choices to do the right thing, we've been taught that a lesson the hard way is much more rewarding. Although it is, God has the power to implant the thought into the mind, no matter how big the lesson is, and if he wants to, even implement a "life experience" in there as well, but instead of using powers to his advantage, he chooses to kill of a good majority of the people through a multitude of inhumane ways. Did the people that died early learn a lesson through suffering and even choking on their own internal waste as an infant? If so I don't know what word religion is preaching anymore.
On the subject of implementing thoughts, we won't just blindly follow his word, we can be as perfect as he wants us to be. If he created humanity then why did he give us the power to reason and think? Surely an ingenious God capable of creating an entire galaxy and species would know that there would be major consequences to that action. It all boils down to one thing: Why would there even need to be a lesson taught? If he makes the world perfect then what would be the advantage of having this wisdom of suffering and greed? If he did exist, surely he'd make an Eden on Earth, so if we live a life of stress free luxury; then what would the benefit of learning that lesson teach us? It wouldn't help us choose moral situations, we would be living in paradise there's no need for choices. If you're thinking "Well the Earth wasn't made an Eden so that doesn't apply.", Then that brings me back to my primary argument: If he has the power, why is the Earth the way it is instead of an Eden? It would be counter intuitive for someone to make a world of suffering to teach a lesson that isn't needed.
You've mentioned that there has to be a 'mastermind' above us, guiding what happens and everything did not just fall into place. The human race is an innovative and curious group of individuals, wanting either self or global profit. We weren't guided into anything, we simply invented and innovated. Your stating that the human race is too illiterate and simple-minded to guide ourselves to a thriving community, and instead we need the guidance of a higher being. We have invented and bettered our lives so much without any guidance from this God. If God is the purpose of all creations, then we should give him credit for anything shouldn't we? He invented the car, and philosophized on the Fermat's Last Theorem correct? Civilization didn't fall into place, we made it into the world we live in today; no God guided us into inventing.
Although your argument is thorough, you left out some conceivable points I've mentioned, such as the thought being implemented into our mind at a young age through strong influence of elders. Dean Hammer's "The God Gene" can perfectly describe the situation. In conclusion to argument three, this God didn't gift us anything, instead put us in a world that could have been improved tenfold without any effort. Attempting to preach a lesson that is unneeded and does not have to be taught at such drastic measures. As well as humans, we prospered on our own, we invented on our own, and no guidance was ever need for us to evolve into the society that is today.
Shadow-Dragon

Con

To begin, I have noticed that you seem to mentioning many imperfections present in our world and seem to be blaming them on God. Well, God is not purposely doing these bad things out of spite onto us. Rather, our our decisions can drive these things to happen. To reiterate, God cannot control everything meaning that a person will not get cancer for instance, but he is able to see it coming. He may not be able to prevent it, but that does not mean that He is not omnipotent. He cannot make everything perfect in this world because, as you may not realize, a totally Utopian society is not actually as good as it seems. Both our fate and our free-will control our destiny and our life.

In addition, it has been mentioned that our minds are able to perceive right from wrong from birth. Well, that point, too, is false. As a small infant, we do not know what not do. Though, as we grow through our early years, we learn from our parents. So, our parents are teaching us our morals, and in many cases, including my own, I learn morals from religion. I learned that certain things are not acceptable. I am not scared of my God if I sin, but I acknowledge my wrongdoing. I accept the consequences for my actions knowing that I will try not to sin again.

To continue, your last round had a very interesting section. You said:
"Why would there even need to be a lesson taught? If he makes the world perfect then what would be the advantage of having this wisdom of suffering and greed? If he did exist, surely he'd make an Eden on Earth, so if we live a life of stress free luxury; then what would the benefit of learning that lesson teach us?"
As I have previously mentioned, what kind of life would humans live if everything is predetermined and we all just follow each other like soulless creatures. Certainly a world where nothing is left to chance or choice is not a very exciting life. God created us unlike other animals to be able to use our advanced cerebral capacity to accomplish more than other organisms have. So, he must have foreseen people straying. Though, as previously stated, he cannot force us to make the right choices; why would he? He made us to live on this world and be happy. If we are not taking advantage of that, then it cannot be blamed on Him for giving us a bad life. So, clearly the world is not a Utopia, but that is the cause of many years of human wrongdoings and mistakes.

Later on in your previous round you said:
"The human race is an innovative and curious group of individuals, wanting either self or global profit. We weren't guided into anything, we simply invented and innovated. Your stating that the human race is too illiterate and simple-minded to guide ourselves to a thriving community, and instead we need the guidance of a higher being. We have invented and bettered our lives so much without any guidance from this God. If God is the purpose of all creations, then we should give him credit for anything shouldn't we?"
Well, to begin on that, the human race is so complex and so advanced because of the help of God. I am pretty knowledgeable on science, and even with the knowledge of Darwin's theories and the like, I am unable to fathom the fact that life just 'appeared'on Earth and just evolved from bacteria to us. Although it may contradict the "natural laws of science", it is plausible that God made us, the solar system, and the Universe. Then, many would say: "Well, how did he get here?" Well, God is omnipotent and omniscient; He was here for all of time, and was the one who made all time and space. Once again, these theories may seem improbable to scientists (I can see that you very much like Science), but with religion, the laws of science do not apply. Now, you might be saying : "If it doesn't correspond with Science, it must be wrong." As seen in many cases, Science can be misleading and many modern postulates about our world may not be true. So, when religion contradicts the 'known' laws of science it may be that science is incorrect and we have yet to learn more information on the unknown phenomena occurring in our Universe.

Lastly, you closed by saying : "In conclusion to argument three, this God didn't gift us anything, instead put us in a world that could have been improved tenfold without any effort. Attempting to preach a lesson that is unneeded and does not have to be taught at such drastic measures. As well as humans, we prospered on our own, we invented on our own, and no guidance was ever need for us to evolve into the society that is today."

To counter, God surely did gift us everything we have. You were born into a life which you probably are successful in. (One may assume based on your knowledge and resources) I can not determine how prosperous you are, but when you succeeded, it is thanks to God for helping you. It may not seem like he's there, but he is, and he loves you even though you may not acknowledge him back. This lesson may seem unnecessary, but humans have driven ourselves into a hole, and now we must suffer for our sins. He is not maniacal and intending on hurting us, but by letting us live our sad lives, we will understand the consequences of bad decisions.
In addition, you stated that God is letting us suffer. Well, He in fact is not. Two thousand years ago, he sent down Jesus to die on a cross to forgive our sins. Jesus' disciples, by following him, we able to pass down the word of God and lived happily in heaven with God.
I don't see how you can be so arrogant as to think that humans evolved and advanced all on our own. Though you may not agree, God is the being who has guided in the right direction and is continuing to do so.

To conclude, God truly is real. He originally made humans to live sinless happy lives, but when Adam and Even were tempted by the Devil, mankind was forever altered. The temptation of evil is what led us to disobey God, and this temptation still plagues the world today. God is not leaving people to suffer. You may not realize, but everyone has a certain talent. There are quite a few known cases where the people who are born into hardship come out with the most successful lives (Michael Jackson). Lastly, God has guided humans to advance, and has given us the resources and the abilities to thrive. Even when it seems like there is no one to turn to, no where to go, God has always been here, and will continue to be there for us. Watching over us, protecting us, and blessing us.
Debate Round No. 3
Thoughtispower

Pro

To begin, you had an example of a terminal disease to back up your statement: "To reiterate, God cannot control everything meaning that a person will not get cancer for instance, but he is able to see it coming.", but how did the cancer get there in the first place? Supposedly in your own faith, he made everything, including cancer. You also stated that he cannot prevent it, but he see's it coming. It's the question on why would he make these kind of cruel sicknesses and plague the World with them? They are just pointless sufferings on mankind wrought down by a believed 'Savior'.
You had also stated that we cannot contrast right from wrong as infants, I never stated that in the previous argument. I was simply stating that the lesson of religion has been integrated into one's mind. You even said yourself you were raised in a religious household, and I can guarantee that you'd be atheist if raised in a atheist household, due to environmental exposure and the teachings of your parent's beliefs. I shall not go farther into depth with that subject however, since I have in the last argument.
You stated that my mind works as "If it does not correspond with Science, than it must be wrong.", but in fact my beliefs are based on evidential research. I do not simply take a side because Science says their right, I have perspective of the situation from both sides before I conclude. I have read the entire Bible in fact, and I am still atheist. I rather believe Science more than religion because they have the proof. If I were to blindly state that if I believed then I was right and you were wrong, that would be incomprehensible. Just because you have faith, doesn't mean all evidence is thrown out of the subject and you are instantly the factual mastermind of the debate. The Bible has stories that could never happen in the real world either. If you say it's because "They are acts of God", then why aren't these barmy and impossible events happening today?
I would like to conclude my fourth argument with the fact that God is making us suffer, your point of cancer says that he cannot prevent it, but he did create it also. Unnecessary sufferings are occurring across the world to preach a simplistic lesson on right morals through the most dramatic and drastic measures. The human race also did run itself, we are intelligent and shouldn't put our accomplishments into the hands of a higher being that may or may not exist. And thank you for the statement about me being successful in life, I might not know yet because i'm only fifteen but it is much appreciated.
Shadow-Dragon

Con

Well, to refute your first point I would like to use an analogy. You had stated, "It's the question on why would he make these kind of cruel sicknesses and plague the world with them?"
Well, imagine that you are a parent and your child wants to play on the playground. You tell the child, no, and point out that there is a fence surrounding the playground to further prevent the child from entering the dangerous equipment. Though, your child defies you, runs over the fence, and gets hurt in the playground.
To explain, the parent symbolizes God and the child can be any human, or even humankind as a whole. God warns us not to sin, or in that case, go into the playground. He knows that the child can/will get hurt. Though, like the parent, God may not be able to prevent his 'child' from entering. To continue, the parent knew that the playground could be dangerous, and had warned the child not to enter. Similarly with God, he warns us by allowing us to develop our sense of right/wrong, but cannot prevent us from sinning/ getting 'hurt'. God/ the parent had no intention of hurting the child, he wanted to child to remain safe, but is is classic human nature to be defiant to an extant. Now, God/the parent can not be held responsible. You may say, "Well, the parent should have been watching the child". Well, God can not watch all 7 billion humans while also preventing us from defying authority as our natural instinct is. The parent, too, can not watch the one child, especially if he has more children. To conclude, God/ the parent had no intention of hurting the child {humans}, and had no intention of letting the child suffer, but when the child does defy the rules, the child {humans} must suffer.
After that metaphor/ analogy, you might be asking, "Well, how does this apply to diseases/ cancer?" Well, science would be able to prove how humans interactions with the environment can spark negative consequences. Our choices to go tanning, for example, could lead the the spread of cancer. To reiterate, God has warned us, for we know that excessive exposure is harmful, but yet people are still defiant. God is not reveling in our misfortunes {cancer, disease} but cannot stop it from developing since humans have made the mistake. Like the child in the analogy, we must now endure some suffering for doing what we know is wrong.

You go on to say that your mind works by following what is researched and thus "proven" to be correct. Well, the Bible is a collection of books, stories, songs, personal accounts of many people, mostly John, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. When Jesus was able to multiply 5 loaves of bread and two fish, a story you must recognize having read the Bible, is that not a miracle? Has that not occurred through the grace of God? One might question if the story is real. Well, with the many accounts of the moment written, surely all those witnesses were not lying when writing about the event. So, with the written accounts of the Bible's events and Jesus' life, the should constitute as the proof you seem to be looking for in religion. Then you ask, why don't these miracles happen today. With so many more problems in the world, one does not simply create miracles and fix all the problems. In addition, the moment when Jesus was able to feed the 5000 men and women would surely constitute as a miracle then. However, were that to occur nowadays, people would be quick to find a way to deem it fake.
To explain, people have become so used to everyday miracles. (Indeed, cars, computers are actually miracles when you look at the science and mechanics behind how they process). In addition, people nowadays witness live 'magic' shows, and would not be very inclined to believe any miracles that happen today. So, if a man was able to multiply food today, people would not want to stop and believe the event, but rather, it would be debated on the news as a hoax, and would be deemed as fake, when, in actuality, it was a true miracle of God. Hey, what if there are huge miracles around us, but we are too busy to see. Let us enter the final round....
Debate Round No. 4
Thoughtispower

Pro

Your analogy left a major factor out, the infants. Did they commit a sin by being born? Was entering the world an act against God? People who have not experienced the wonders of life are killed off by these terminal diseases, passed down from this 'consequential' God. In your analogy, relating to my statement, God did want to hurt the child even if he obeyed everything he said. As previously stated, why go to such drastic measures? There are people out there who have committed very little to no crimes and if so small ones; and yet they have their life swiftly taken away. If these consequences are supposed to preach a lesson, then what is the point of learning it if you're already dead? You can't apply the recently gained knowledge if your not in the world of choices and temptations.
You may be correct on if he does exist, he can't pull off miracles all at once, but he certainly can try. More tragedies occur than 'miracles' in this world, so maybe he wants to watch us suffer for petty mistakes. To add, Heaven has to be overpopulated by now; counting a enormous amount of deaths, surely it's crowded at this point. So to fix the problem? Add more space. The only thing is, he's editing heaven because of all the deaths occurring, but he's the one who killed off the people in the first place? Why attempt to fix a problem when your the ongoing cause? Also, he is bettering a paradise in the afterlife when there's a suffering world below that could use alot of fixing.
To continue on the subject of miracles in the Bible, how can you believe it? If there were no witnesses, surely it's not an evidential story but more of a "I believe your improbable story for no reason". If your mother came into your house and exclaimed that she just won a million dollars, survived five car crashes on the way, and flew to Russia and back within 1 minute; would you believe her? Flying to Russia and back in 1 minute is physically impossible, but so is the creation of man. Faith does not simply confirm something that hasn't even been found or proved yet. If you had faith in your mother, would she suddenly gain the ability to fly to Russia and back in 1 minute? Of course not.
To conclude, we are not busy to notice miracles, as Science's main purpose is to evaluate and explain the living world and all that inhabits it. God is simply a fictional figure made to keep the public on restrain, to make us 'holy', thus lowering crime rate and giving profit to the church. A prime example of this would be in the medieval ages when the church was corrupt and all for the money. Religion was never about saving people, but a profitable business that attacks the gullibility of the community. The Bible has numerous holes in it's stories, with no evidential background. This world is too plagued and poverty stricken to have a savior watch over us. I thank you all for your time, and I hope all votes are argumentatively based and not biased on beliefs. Once again, thank you and thank Shadow-Dragon for this interesting debate.
Shadow-Dragon

Con

Well, those were some nice points, but I, of course, must refute them.

If you indeed did read the Bible, you would understand that humans are born with original sin. The original sin was, of course, the sin made by Adam and Eve when they betrayed God and gave into temptation. So, although it may be sad that these infants die, everything does happen for a reason, and they indeed do have sin until they are baptized and thus forgiven of that original sin. Surely there must be a reason for their early death (what if they will become a murderer if they grew up), but since they are just babies, we do not realize that.

In addition, if the person truly did not sin, then they are brought up to Heaven. If it was a small child who had not yet sinned, although he/she did not have a place on Earth, they will live in happiness in Heaven.

In addition, you stated that "more tragedies occur than 'miracles' in this world". Well, unless you counted them, I don't think so. Each day, many new babies are born, and although elders are dying, the population is growing. A healthy human birth can be seen as a miracle. As stated in a previous round, people have become so accustomed to great things happening on a regular basis, they no longer think of these things as "miracles". Finding true love, too, can be a miracle. Though, you may say that natural disasters are tragedies. Although they may be bad, these are part of our Earth and help us in many cases (Population control, giving us a better understanding of how our Earth works, ecological succession).

You continued to mention that there were no witnesses in the miracles of the Bible. Well, were the 5 thousand men and women present when Jesus converted the bread and fish into a huge feast not witnesses? Yeah, they were. The men that say Jesus heal the leaper, the men that say Jesus heal the paralyzed man, were all witnesses. Many went on to write about the events of the Bible.

You then go on to question the validity of the Bible claiming that "The Bible has numerous holes in it's stories, with no evidential background." This too is false. What if I told you that the Bible was written by over 40 people, and over a period of 1,600 years. All these different writings and opinions were unified within the Bible. It was not one biased person writing it, but many persons, all who had faith and belief along with the events they witnessed. So, yes, the Bible is valid and is nonfictional.

Lastly, you ended by saying, "This world is too plagued and poverty stricken to have a savior watch over us." Well, not really. God loves us all no matter what. He loves me, and he loves you too. Even though you may sin and you may deny his existence, God will not stop watching over you. Think about it. Has anything ever happened to you where you thought, "Wow, how did that happen?" No matter how much sin and corruption is present in this world, God and Jesus will never leave us or give up on us. There may be darkness in this world, but it only takes a little light to pierce the darkness. It only takes a little light to brighten this world. And that light, is God. The Holy Father, who is real, loving, protecting, and forgiving.

Thank you for the debate, and I hope you understand that God truly is a real, almighty, and eternal being.

As we Catholics say in the Nicene Creed, "I believe in one God, the Father of the almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth. Of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, True God to True God. Begotten not made consubstantial with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from Heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died, and was buried. And rose again on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. He is seated at the right hand of the Father and will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end."
Debate Round No. 5
45 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Thoughtispower 3 years ago
Thoughtispower
I was raised in a religious household but I was always Atheist from the start. And I don't think I'll ever convert into religion.
Posted by Shadow-Dragon 3 years ago
Shadow-Dragon
So, were you two always agnostic/ atheist? Or did you eventually convert?
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
steadily, Sagey, STEADILY!
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Yes Dawn,

God only exists to put stupid thoughts in people's minds and make them look like complete and utter idiots.

God does that without failure!
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
WOW, god-is-all-powerful but god-cannot-control-everything.

WITHOUT FAIL, you give a religious person time to talk and that religious person
WILL state something TOTALLY stupid
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Thanks Thoughtispower:
Here is a video clip of Bart Ehrman who was once a Christian and was studying for his Doctorate of Divinity, thus a Theologian, but is now a fully qualified NT historian and he mentions the inconsistencies in the Gospels in this part of his Lecture.

It was studying the Bible that turned Bart away from being a devout Christian, he is now Agnostic.

Enjoy: Bart is brilliant.
Posted by Thoughtispower 3 years ago
Thoughtispower
I actually never noticed the Gospel statement until you said it now. Well done, I have yet another reason to believe that Christianity is fake. Point one for atheism and all other opposing religions. Too bad Shadow-Dragon didn't take losing lightly, it could have been a civil debate but instead he decided to take his anger out on the opposing side and the voters. He needs to grow up and realize that life isn't all forgiving and you don't get everything on a silver platter.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Well put Thoughtispower:
Though I did combine Buddhism and Confucianism in a previous argument, as some of Jesus's teachings are Buddhist based and others are Confucian based, and both these cultures existed in Jordan at the time of the life of Jesus, so he plagiarized bits from both cultures.
It is very likely that the teachings attributed to Jesus Christ, never left the lips of Jesus, but were created later by the Gospel writers, since there was over 30 years before the death of Jesus and the first Gospel was put into writing. That is far too long for teachings to be remembered accurately, so much of the Gospels were actually invented by the writers.
Very likely, not a single word of "Sermon On The Mount" left the mouth of Jesus Christ.

It was all interpolated later in the Gospel, as rote learning is limited in it;s ability to accurately record history, in fact it is a highly inaccurate form of information storage.
Thus, we can consider that nothing in the Bible is historically accurate, since all the Coptic Gospels differ in every respect of the Life of Jesus Christ, essentially the only common elements are his name, his virgin birth myth and he died. The events before and at his death are all so different that they conflict.

These insights into the New Testament destroy it's value and the value of Christianity.

This is something that totally Irrational humans like Shadow-Dragon cannot understand.

They cannot understand why people don't believe in Jesus and why no open minded Historian can ever take Jesus Christ's life seriously.
Posted by Thoughtispower 3 years ago
Thoughtispower
I think the all time high of stupidity has finally reached it's occurrence. Science and Chemistry is all evidential and tested, we don't just do fancy tests to say we're right. We do these for a reason, religion on the other hand is purely based on belief and has no factual evidence. Religion has no tests or properties to calculate the validity of any of these outrageous fairy tales. You stated that Jesus' miracles did occur but we weren't there to see it. You forgot one clue Sherlock, YOU WEREN'T THERE TO SEE IT EITHER. What really humors me is how you stated that we attack other people's religion when you yourself just attacked Sagey on the existence of Confucius and that his knowledge was less superior then that of Jesus. You even threw in a statement about Buddha who by the way is a completely different belief. You really are a hypocritical and sadistic sob, stop making false accusations on people you meet because they say you're wrong, then you go do the exact same thing you opposed. Christians don't worship a statue? Huh that totally doesn't remind me of the statue in Rio De Janeiro you ignorant backwash. On the subject of ignorance, you said that me and Sagey were ignorant when you failed to even accept any factual evidence on the subject. So please just stop trying to make a good rebuttal, it's two on one and logic is on our side. Stop standing by the door with your hand on the knob telling mommy you're going to leave. No one cares nor wants to acknowledge your blatant stupidity and hypocrisy. We'd all rather you disappear from this comment debate in all actuality. So please spend tonight in your lonely hours thinking of what you've said and how ignorant of the real world you really are. Maybe then realization will hit you and a common sense and reasoning will come to mind. Until then, lock yourself indoors until the society of America has finally recovered from this barrage of idiocy and arrogant ignorance
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
@ Shadow-Dragon:
Your Bible God wouldn't even be able to calculate the trajectory of a rocket, let alone create a universe.
The Bible God is the dumbest and most Idiotic thing ever described in literature.
A Narcissistic Megalomaniac, who cannot even get the description of the Earth right.
We don't live on a Flat Earth, covered by a solid dome with starts glued to the inside surface and when the pillars that hold this dome are shaken, the stars will fall down to Earth and likely hit you.

Even Galileo in his time gave a better, more accurate description of the planet Earth.

Even Leonardo da Vinci in 1500CE discovered Genesis to be False.

Yet, in this century, idiots like yourself still get it all so terribly WRONG!
And believe in absolute Nonsense that Galileo and Leonardo in their time knew as WRONG!

Your knowledge was defeated centuries ago.
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Vote Placed by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
ThoughtispowerShadow-DragonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments about God being immoral to give us Free Will is Implausible, actually very little of Con's arguments for God are plausible, not knowing something, such as how microbes evolved to humans is no excuse for invoking a God argument, truly rational individuals will simply say, as scientists do, we don't understand, so lets examine the topic further, or simply be honest and say, we don't know. Making an assumption that because we don't know, it must be from God, is the God Of The Gaps Fallacy. It's better to just be honest and say I Don't Know or Understand it, rather than making a leap of faith and asserting God is the cause! This is the problem scientists have with creationists concerning The Big Bang. The Creationists are completely Dishonest!
Vote Placed by SNP1 3 years ago
SNP1
ThoughtispowerShadow-DragonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments made more logical sense then Con's.