God is one, not three
Debate Rounds (4)
I hate to say this, but to say that God is only one person is to against the clear testimony of the Bible.
But good luck to you anyways.
Land_Sharkz forfeited this round.
To start off, I am assuming Con is a Christian. Con himself said that the Bible teaches God is one person. Well my job is to prove the Deity of the following: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. If it can be shown that all three of these persons are God from the scriptures, then the debate is over and I win, unless of course Con can provide a counter-response to what I am about to say.
With that said, let's move on to see what the Bible has to say concerning this subject:
The Deity of the Father
This is something that both Unitarians and Trinitarians are in no disagreement over, namely that the Father is God. The scripture evidence for this is so overwhelming that I will just provide a couple of verses.
And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” (Mark 14:36)
"Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal." (John 6:27)
Virtually every book in the New Testament establishes that the Father is God, so there is no need to list a bunch of them, so two verses are sufficient to establish that the Father is God.
The Deity of the Son
Because the Biblical evidence for the Deity of the Son is so overwhelming, I will provide a lengthy exegesis on one particularly popular verse, John 1:1. First let me post it and then explain it a bit.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
This passage is so clear and so plain that you would wonder why anyone denies that the Bible teaches the Deity of Jesus. Well there is one particular group, namely the Jehovahs Witnesses who try to get around this verse.
Basically instead of translating the last clause of John 1:1 as "and the Word was God", they translate it as "and the Word was a god". They basically add an "a" and lowercase the "g" in order to give the impression that this verse isn't teaching that Jesus is God but rather, a created being therefore, it should be "a god".
This is a mistake and stems from a lack of knowledge of Greek grammar. In Greek Grammar you could comunicate "the Word was God" by putting the predicate "God" ('theos' in Greek) first. But if you wish to do this, the predicate can NOT have a "the" in front of it. Otherwise, what you would be saying is "The God is the Word" which means that John would be teaching only the Word is God and that's all there is to God. So the way John constructed the verse was the clearest way that he could've taught that the Word was God - the 2nd person of the Trinity, while not trying to give us the impression that only the Word is God. He communicates to us that the the Word was with the Father who is God and the Word himself was God (not the Father).
No reputable Greek scholar translates John 1:1 like the Jehovahs Witnesses do. If Con wants to dispute what I just said about John 1:1, we can talk during the rebuttals.
Just a quick note: any attempt on the part of Con to give verses saying that Jesus is a man will receive a quick and robust "amen" from me. It is not against the teaching of Trinitarianism that Jesus was a man. Of course he is a man, but that's not all the Bible teaches, as John 1:1 shows.
The Deity of the Holy Spirit
The Bible likewise teaches the Deity of the Holy Spirit:
"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”" (Acts 5:3-4)
Notice how Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit as lying to God. Clear as day testimony to the Deity of the Holy Spirit if you ask me.
According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit could be blasphemed:
“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter,but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.” (Mark 3:29)
May I suggest that only God can be blasphemed. How can a created being be blasphemed? How can God's active force be blasphemed? The Holy Spirit is no created being, nor is it God's active force, but is God.
According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit is eternal:
"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." (Hebrews 9:14)
I think Con and I can both agree that only God can be eternal, no created being is eternal. If you say the Holy Spirit is not God, then you are saying that someone other than God is eternal, which the Bible does not support.
Only God is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal, therefore, the Holy Spirit is God.
Very clear and very simple.
All three Divine persons mentioned:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
Notice what is being said here by Jesus, baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The one name is shared by the three persons. Clear as day Trinitarian passage in the Bible. For it would be utter blasphemy to equate created beings with the Father.
If Con wants to come back and say that Matthew 28:19 is a later addition, like some do, I am more than ready to respond to the arguments he will give.
There is only One God
Interestingly, in spite of the Bible teaching that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; the Bible still teaches that there is only one God.
"Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." (Mark 13:29)
I have shown that the Bible teaches that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all fully God. They are all distinct from one another, yet the Bible still teaches that there is only One God.
One God - three persons; sure sounds like the Trinity to me.
Land_Sharkz forfeited this round.
All points still stand, Pro hasn't even responded to anything I have said.
The Bible teaches that the Father is God. (Mark 14:36 and John 6:27)
The Bible teaches that the Son is God. (John 1:1)
The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is God. (Acts 5:3-4 and Hebrews 9:14)
The Bible also teaches that there is only One God. (Mark 12:29)
The Bible teaches that all 3 of the Divine persons make up the One God. (Matthew 28:19)
So do the math...The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only One God, which means that all 3 persons make up the One being who is God. A plurality within oneness. Sure sounds like the Bible teaches the Trinity.
The only ones who are forced to deny the Biblical evidence for the Trinity do so because their theology doesn't allow it, or just can't stand the fact that the Bible teaches a doctrine believed by Christians.
Land_Sharkz forfeited this round.
Well, I have proved my case...I used the Bible to establish that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all full Divine yet distinct persons. The One God exists as 3 persons - plurailty within oneness. Sure sounds like the BIBLICAL doctrine of the trinity to me.
With that said, let me provide you with quotes of some of the earliest Christian writings outside the NT text, namely from Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp; both of whom were pupils of John the Apostle, which means they passed on to us what they were taught by the Apostles concerning Jesus Christ, and here is what they said about him:
Ignatius of Antioch (35 AD - 107 AD)
"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Ignatius' Epistle to the Ephesians, ch. 7)
"Look for Him who is above all time, eternal and invisible, yet who became visible for our sakes; impalpable and impassible, yet who became passible on our account; and who in every kind of way suffered for our sakes." (Ignatius' Epistle to Polycarp, ch. 3)
"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
Polycarp (69 AD -155 AD)
"Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness and in all freedom from anger and forbearance and steadfastness and patient endurance and purity, and may he give to you a share and a place among his saints, and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead." (Polycarp's Epistle to the Philippians, ch. 12)
The Deity of Christ or the Trinity wasn't invented at the Council of Nicea as some people falsely claim.
Praise be to God the Father who has saved us through the Eternal Son Jesus Christ and redeemed us by the power of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 10 months ago
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||0||1|
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.