The Instigator
MisterPerson
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
josh_42
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

God is real.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MisterPerson
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/24/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,286 times Debate No: 7541
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

MisterPerson

Con

-- It's non-pragmatic, nor logical, to believe that there is a superhuman living in the clouds that determines our fate. Let's look at we know is possible. You and I both know that police officers exist. We both know that judges exist. We also know that lawyers exist. Those are socially accepted, recognized and respected careers. But, let's not let our imagination get too far ahead of us. It's a rather bold declaration that there is one being, so powerful that he controls all the universe and all of our lives. God is a creation of our imagination. To believe that there is something as powerful as that is non-pragmatic because the capabilities of said God, set forth by any religious text, are beyond the realm of natural capability.

-- People who believe in God are afraid. They are afraid of life, afraid of the unknown, afraid of tomorrow and afraid of death. It is human's natural mentality to be afraid of death. Let's face it, just about nobody wants to die. But some people are so afraid of death, that they create an alternative reality. They tell themselves over and over and over and over and over... that there is a God, and once they die, they will get to live in Heaven, a place of bliss and eternal life. They tell themselves this so much, they actually begin to believe it. The plausible existence of God is a result of a scared person telling himself that "everything will be okay." When you die, you don't go to heaven. When you die, there is black. It is this acceptance of the truth that makes death less scary to deal with.

-- If God existed, why would he let people fight over his existence? When people fight over religious "turf" or beliefs, they are practically saying, "My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend... now die." It is this fighting over which religion is the truth that leads me to my next point.

-- How can somebody believe THE TRUTH when there are so many? There are hundreds of different religions spanning the globe. With each religion, there is at least one God. And do you know what each of these Gods are saying? They are saying that they are the one, only, true God. There is so much conflict as to which religion is right between these "Gods" that either they are really confused, or they don't exist.

-- Each society has their own God that protects whatever it is that they believe. In America: God protects equality and life. In places in the Middle East: God protects sexual dominance and monetary beliefs. And I can prove that places like America have decided for themselves how or what God is. Whenever we go to a Christian church, unless that church is an Afro-American Christian church, we see a white Jesus. But there's a problem: Jesus was born in Jerusalem, making him one of the original Hebrews. Here's where the problem is: the original Hebrews were brown, very brown. So obviously, either Jesus lost some melanin somewhere along the line or the American society decided what he looked like to appeal to greatest number.

-- Throughout history, we can look back at fascist or totalitarian government and see that people do not or are afraid to question authority. But why? Because they are either (a) afraid of punishment, may that be death, humiliation, or of the likes (b) have faith in the government. Pro-gov citizens in societies like that say to "not question" and "have faith" in the government. Who else says that? Scared Christians. Do not question God. Have faith in God. They are afraid of the hypothetical ("well if there was a God") consequences set forth by the Bible or other governing doctrine. I am against dictatorships because the rulers are too selfish. So, either God doesn't exist, or he is one stuck-up entity.

Many thanks to whoever accepts this -- and good luck to them too.
josh_42

Pro

**thank you for the debate**
also i'm sorry but my arguments will be very short seeing as i only have 24 hours to post and i spend about 18 away from home. and have very little time to my self

-- It's non-pragmatic, nor logical, to believe that there is a superhuman living in the clouds that determines our fate

**************************************************
Not true. Its your assumption that is foolish to believe in a super-natural being but do not explain why. Just because God as he is defined transcends our own comprehension does not negate his existence.

I will assume you believe in the Big Bang Theory, that states that the universe and all matter in the universe was once contained in a single point. But does that make sense? how can the matter of all the universes be fit in a singular point? Can you prove that it was? Can YOU, personally show me the reasoning and evidence behind it? no, of course you can't. But we'all just take the words of our scientist and have faith that what the say is true. The same is for religion, we take the world of the people in charge that what they say is right.
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-- People who believe in God are afraid. They are afraid of life, afraid of the unknown, afraid of tomorrow and afraid of death. It is human's natural mentality to be afraid of death.

**************************************************

Well your first make a generalization that religion is for the fearful, and that people who believe in religion are inherently fearful. this is obviously not true for every one and it cannot disprove God.

**************************************************
-- If God existed, why would he let people fight over his existence? When people fight over religious "turf" or beliefs, they are practically saying, "My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend... now die." It is this fighting over which religion is the truth that leads me to my next point.

-- How can somebody believe THE TRUTH when there are so many? There are hundreds of different religions spanning the globe. With each religion, there is at least one God. And do you know what each of these Gods are saying? They are saying that they are the one, only, true God. There is so much conflict as to which religion is right between these "Gods" that either they are really confused, or they don't exist.
**************************************************

Just because we have the free will to chose how we want to believe in god, does not disprove his existence. I understand where you are coming from; if god existed would not his message be the same to all people. But well all have the free will to chose how we want to worship god and what god really means. Just because there is diversity in religion cannot disprove his existence
**************************************************

-- Each society has their own God that protects whatever it is that they believe. In America: God protects equality and life. In places in the Middle East: God protects sexual dominance and monetary beliefs. And I can prove that places like America have decided for themselves how or what God is. Whenever we go to a Christian church, unless that church is an Afro-American Christian church, we see a white Jesus. But there's a problem: Jesus was born in Jerusalem, making him one of the original Hebrews. Here's where the problem is: the original Hebrews were brown, very brown. So obviously, either Jesus lost some melanin somewhere along the line or the American society decided what he looked like to appeal to greatest number.

Again i must say so what? If we see God has our personal defender of peace and freedom, or one of social justice and morality, it all comes back to our own freewill to chose God for our own image. If we chose to move away from the will of God, it is sad but our choice. Freewill does not negate His existence
**************************************************

-- Throughout history, we can look back at fascist or totalitarian government and see that people do not or are afraid to question authority. But why? Because they are either (a) afraid of punishment, may that be death, humiliation, or of the likes (b) have faith in the government. Pro-gov citizens in societies like that say to "not question" and "have faith" in the government. Who else says that? Scared Christians. Do not question God. Have faith in God. They are afraid of the hypothetical ("well if there was a God") consequences set forth by the Bible or other governing doctrine. I am against dictatorships because the rulers are too selfish. So, either God doesn't exist, or he is one stuck-up entity.

**************************************************

Well, first off, I have never heard some one say have faith in the government, in fact if some one was to say that, I would be very much concerned. But i feel most of your argument are logically fallacies based on association and " because this is X1 same as X2 the reasons for both must be the same. Have faith in the government? An institution based on man as its key parts, or a supernatural being commonly believed to be benevolent.

*** Again i must apologize for the brevity of my arguments***
Debate Round No. 1
MisterPerson

Con

Thank you for taking this debate.

A sentence from your first point: Just because God as he is defined transcends our own comprehension does not negate his existence.

My retalitaion: From a secular stand point, there is flaw in this statement. That statement could be taken as, "Just becuase it may be impossible for us to understand, it doesn't mean it's not true." If something is beyond our own comprehension, therefore beyond our own intellectual ability, we cannot understand it, or, for that matter, make a declaration of its validity. To reiterate what you said, "Can YOU, personally show me the reasoning and evidence behind it? no, of course you can't." You stated that as he is defined transcends our own comprehension, therefore you are stating that you cannot give any proof or evidence as to his legitimacy. In your following paragraph, you made the assumption that I believe in the Big Bang Theory, which is incorrect. Therefore, there is no need to argue voided information. I also see no need as to present my reasoning for the creation of man--seeing as that is not the debate.

Your second point: Well your first make a generalization that religion is for the fearful, and that people who believe in religion are inherently fearful. this is obviously not true for every one and it cannot disprove God.

My retaliation: I am not making a generalization but instead an observation. People worship their respective Gods because, as previously stated, they fear the consequences (e.g. Hell, eternal damnation, etc.). Your point that that statement was not true because everyone and it cannot disprove God, has flaw because--neither does it prove God. As stated before, humans fear the unknown. Something that cannot be proven nor disproven is unknown. I would like to reiterate that people worship their Gods under the assumption that he does exist. Them not known whether or not he exists validates my point that they could be worshipping through fear.

A sentence from your third point: Just because we have the free will to chose how we want to believe in god, does not disprove his existence.

My retaliation: I would like to reatliate at that point with a question: If God was real, wouldn't he decide how we believe in him? If God, the all powerful, all knowing, does not have the ability to define himself in a way where everybody can worship him in the correct manner, does not that negate his abilities? If God can't decide under which form he wants people to worship him as, or what way to praise is the right way, he does not exist.

Your fourth point is under the same principle as your third, but you do introduce the senctence, "Freewill does not negate His existence" Never once did I state that freewill negates God. I said that it is God's lack of defining himself that negates him. If there are so many religions, so many Gods, why can't the all powerful "real" God just pop down for a few days a let everybody know that he's the real one?

Your final point questions my comparison between God and the government. I would like to state that I never said God was the government, or government was God. I was simply making a comparison. This comparison was to put in perspective the "fear factor" or worship. Borderline royalists during the old monarchy days in England, would not defy the king, no matter what. They would have faith in the king no matter his choice, because they were afraid of paying the price. This comparison was simply there to expand on the idea from my second point, that people worship because they are afraid.

SUMMARY:

I would urge anyone and everyone to vote "Con" for this particular debate because I have introduced numerous explanations that dispel God. All of my information presented can lead to the point that: God is a creation of the human mind; thus not real. However, my opponent has only introduced points that lead to the conclusion: Well you can't disprove him. However, I have disproved him by finding the flaw throughout history and the current day contradictions set forth by multiple religions, including Christianity. I have enjoyed this debate and appreciate my opponent's willingness to attend.
josh_42

Pro

josh_42 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
That's about as believable as the flying spaghetti monster.
Posted by MisterPerson 7 years ago
MisterPerson
To answer the question of wjmelements, I would know that there is black after you die. How would I know? Isn't it obvious? I'm a cat. I have nine lives. Well, technically I only have four left, but I used to have nine. I've died five times now. And after everytime I die, there's just black. That's before I hit the "RESET" button in the Black Room than spawn up in some alley somewhere. There's your answer.
Posted by MisterPerson 7 years ago
MisterPerson
To answer the question of wjmelements, I would know that there is black after you die. How would I know? Isn't it obvious? I'm a cat. I have nine lives. Well, technically I only have four left, but I used to have nine. I've died five times now. And after everytime I die, there's just black. That's before I hit the "RESET" button in the Black Room than spawn up in some alley somewhere. There's your answer.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 7 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
Look at my profile and my profile comments. Christian -----> Converted atheist
Posted by Epicism 7 years ago
Epicism
Holy crap Diablos I could swear last time I saw you you were christian... or at least in the religion forums.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 7 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
Why do Christians continually complain about debates on God's existence just to make them feel better about their ignorant choice to believe in him. It's just extremely annoying.
Posted by Epicism 7 years ago
Epicism
@YoungHoole

Affirmed.
Posted by RacH3ll3 7 years ago
RacH3ll3
lol...

"afro-americans"
Posted by Xie-Xijivuli 7 years ago
Xie-Xijivuli
"When you die, there is black."

It could be pink.
Posted by YoungHoole 7 years ago
YoungHoole
I am so tired of these debates! Why do atheists continually post debates on God's existance just to make them feel better about their ignorant choice to not believe in him? It's just extremely annoying.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by MisterPerson 7 years ago
MisterPerson
MisterPersonjosh_42Tied
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Total points awarded:50