God punished us for the sins of our ancestors.
Resolved: God is punishing us for the sins of our ancestors.
In this debate I will accept that god is real, he is a personal god and a judge for all of us. The god in question here is the Christian god, as the only reference for god’s word and actions is the bible I must also accept this as a valid source.
I will hold the burden of proof that god does in fact punish people for the misdeeds of the long since dead.
4. Closing statements
“I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love Me and keep My commandments.”
“Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”
“The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.”
“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned. To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam”
-Romans 5: 13-14
“Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.”
I believe I have made it clear that throughout the bible god admits to, and is said to act as though, he punishes generations following for the sins of the previous.
One could make the case that it’s not that we inherit our ancestor’s punishment, we inherit their sins and for those sins we are punished. But if we take into account that god made man, and then he also made it so that we could inherit the actual sins themselves, a hereditary curse. Thus we can actually follow our entire line of punishment to the original sin of Adam and Eve, since like them every generation, by design, inherits the aptitude for sin. Paul (Saul of Tarsus) who is, as some would argue, the founding father of the Christian popularity movement even exclaims this truth.
This point alone should be enough to prove my point. God himself admits to the act.
Canon of Canaan
Noah, a descendant of the first man Adam, was the “most righteous man on earth” " and was chosen by god for his mission (Genesis 7:1) (Ezekiel 14:14) (Genesis 6:9) (2 Peter 2:5) (Hebrews 11:7). God’s initial flaw in humanity, inheritance of sin across generations and thus permanent hereditary punishment, had by now spread through the generations and created a hostile environment and corrupt earth. Noah was instructed to build an ark to house the last of humanity (Noah’s family) and 2 of each creature. He then flooded the earth, killing every living creature he deemed was corrupted by his initial flaw, as well as other beasts, in favor of the few he saw as fitting to repopulate the earth. This is the well known, even by children, story of Noahs Ark. What happened afterwards?
Many interpretations Noah’s post flood story exists, but all of them end the same way. In case anyone is unfamiliar with I will point out a few of these interpretations since it may have relevance to god’s actions. I will leave that up to you (both Con and readers).
Noah was extremely drunk off wine and was in his tent, this is where the interpretations diverge. One interpretation is that Ham sodomized Noah taking advantage of him in his drunken state, this I believe was Samuels deduction based on another biblical incident in which the phrase "and he saw" indicated copulation.
Another (which I personally find to be more likely) is that Ham saw Noah having sex with his wife, and “seeing the nakedness of a man” is thought to be a common Hebrew expression describing that event.
Another is that Ham castrated Noah this is inferred from the fact that Noah had no children after the flood, therefore being deprived of a fourth son. This is a deduction based on the actions Noah took, cursing Hams 4th son Cannan.
In the end of the story god in his omniscience, knowingly chose a man that would intentionally curse\ punish his own grandson (Canaan), and his descendants in perpetuity, for the “sin” of the father (Noah’s son) Ham. It is only with god’s assistance that the curse would be in effect as Noah gets his abilities, much like Moses, from the blessing of god.
There's also hurricanes and earthquakes, but these aren't punishments. These were prophesied in the Bible, as the signs of the second coming. God told us not to worry because these things will pass, and the end will come once Jesus returns to reign in Jerusalem for 1000 years.
"There shall be famines, pestilence, and earthquakes in diverse places. And ye shall be hated of all nations, for my name's sake" (Mark 13:4-5).
I am actually an atheist, however I accepted for the context of the debate that god exists.
I will point out a few flaws in the argument presented. Remember, the resolution is that god is still punishing us for the sins of our ancestors.
However, the point I believe you are trying to make here is that god will not flood the earth again because of humanities sin. Fair enough, but after he did so, why did he not restore Noah and his family to Eden as he clearly. If the answer to this query is “we simply cannot know gods ways” I then ask why not? If we are just incapable of this, then why did go make us so inferior as to not understand reason? Is that not a punishment itself, in the very act of creating us, he makes our minds so frail we cannot comprehend his logic?
Again, I feel this was not the point you were attempting to make. You were trying to explain that the atrocities accompanied by the second coming of Christ are not punishments. I have one question, if it is not punishment that will be inflicted on earth in the end f times, why would the followers of Christ need to be saved? Mark 13:13
Unfortunately, I did not see any statements that show that god does not punish us for the sins of our ancestors. So I cannot refute anything further.
 http://en.wikipedia.org... **Sorry, Wiki was the best put together list I found for all the false predictions**
"For all have sinned, and come short upon the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
2. Yes and no, to be honest I've been known to skim through sources just to make sure they have everything I wanted (in this case, it was only this story of Noah). But yes thank you for seeing my point, it was that God will never create another flood or wipe humanity off the face of the Earth. It might contain a lot that contradicts Christianity, but in my mind these things could still have happened.
3. These people are idiots, because even the Bible makes it clear that no one will ever know the day or hour He returns. In fact, He even warned about all of this. False Christs and false prophets, they've always existed but this is happening at an alarming rate. We are definetly seeing more and more prophesy though, like Isiah 17:1 ("Damascus will no longer be a city, but a ruinous heap"). That's taking place as we speak.
Prophesy is and never was punishment, God punished us via the flood and made it very clear He will never do so again. These signs of his coming would be very large trials, and maybe we'll even go through the tribulation, but it's not punishment. Also, another theory is that God would call His followers to His Kingdom and only have the rest go through tribulation.
We just have to wait and see, but I'm still very sure God doesn't punish His people anymore (even though He allows it from others sometimes, like challenges but that's different). But I also see a little bit of a misunderstanding, the fact that so many people said "the world was going to end" and were wrong. Here's the thing, most people that would say it are locked up and institutionalized. But most of the major "prophets" talked about an event causing a chain reaction that STARTS the end of the world, like the Mayans. The Mayans never said the world would end in 2012, but they said "it would be a new age of spiritual enlightenment". Whether people are wrong or not is basically 99% opinion, but now it's up to the voters.